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Topic: can't figure out how it worked, but it did (18 msgs / 852 lines)
1) From: Stephen Carey
Hi, all.  Okay, I have a ton to learn, and am doing so.  One of the 
beans I work on often is IMV, which I picked up last year.  Someone 
on the list was kind of enough to send me some well roasted beans so 
I knew what I was going for.  It was not a bean I knew at all.  Well, 
I fell in love with it and found its complexity and cornucopia of 
flavors and textures to be amazing.  Since then I have been working 
to come close to bringing out all that the wonderful bean has to offer.
When I got my Behmor I did the safe thing of working with P1 to see 
where the cracks began, when colors changed, all of it.  That said, 
while it was good, for the bean itself is so good, I wasn't hitting 
it to where I felt it was a "happy" roast.
The other night I decided to continue working on it and started with 
the basic Profile P4 set-up as the Behmor paperwork lays out the 
profile: 1/2 lb. of beans set on P4, 1/2 lb., D, -,- for a total time 
of 14:40.  I just had a feeling that the way the temperature went up 
and how long it was at the stages would help bring out the flavors, 
but not "bake" the bean.  I also had a slight fear that this may not 
be enough time to get me through the first crack, fully - which was my goal.
Off I went.  With 1:53 left I heard the first outlier crack, then 
another and it was off on its first crack, but not truly rolling, 
though steady.  With 1:20 left it was still cracking away and I felt 
I need more time.  I added 45 seconds by hitting +, +, +.  The 
cracking continued and with 20 seconds left (new time into roast due 
to the addition of the 45 seconds) I hit the + button one more time, 
I felt this would take me out and the cracking would stop during the 
first few seconds of the cool cycle.  And, I was totally surprised 
when it did just this.  The cracks stopped about 15 seconds into the 
cool cycle.
I waited until this afternoon/evening to brew some, 2.5 days of rest 
on it.  I can't explain it, but I hit it.  I know it was a round 
about way and there is certainly a more direct route, but this coffee 
is amazing.  It easily matches that which I received as a gift.  It 
has a wonderful color.  It is a bit of a light roast, which I 
like.  The brewed (in a new Technivorm Moccamaster) color is that of 
diluted chocolate milk - not sure how to explain it - it looks 
inviting is what I am trying to say.
The aftertaste is that of apricot, and to me, a bit of mango - I 
don't get that, for I have never tasted it in any brewed coffee, but 
it is there.  The initial sip gives me a reaction of relaxation, 
almost a bit of tenderness, it is not overpowering, it is just there 
with these flavors for the mind to sort out.
I am sorry this post is so long and weird, but I am really excited 
that I worked this out - I mean Joe did the initial work with 
suggesting a starting place in his notes, though not specifically for 
this bean.  I am still really learning the Behmor, whereas with the 
IR2 I seemed to be able to lock things in faster.  I think I am OVER 
THINKING them on the Behmor, making things more difficult than they 
have to be - just my thought.  That's it.  When I actually seem to 
hit one out of the park I like to share about it.  I promise, this is 
not meant as bragging, for we all share in it - I learn from this 
list and then just experimenting.  I plan on doing this same roast 
tonight to see how I - if at all - can reproduce it.  Also, my guess 
is that with one more day's rest it will be even lighter and a bit 
more fruity, but, trust me, still coffee.
Thank you for letting me spout off,
Stephen
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2) From: Seth Grandeau
Congrats!  I always love it when somethinga actually goes the way I
intended.  Enjoy the IMV, it's one of my favorites and I'm waiting for this
year's batch to show up.
On 7/26/08, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: raymanowen
" ...one of my favorites and I'm waiting for this year's batch [IMV] to show
up."
Hope you don't mind waiting, if it's not up to Tom's standards.
Cupping is not just a *$ yuppie show, it's the coffee Time Trials. Just
because you put together a $10,000,000 effort doesn't mean you're driving in
the "500."
It's not without purpose that Tom does all the cupping.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
"Wonder how our coffee tastes? Let's cup it. What a concept!"
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4) From: golfermd01
Congrats! I am new to this too and have so much to learn. Even with my VERY limited experience I have found that even with a roast that I didn't hit spot on it tasted a lot better than anything else I can buy. And when I do nail it it is beyond description...
Dan
---------

5) From: John and Emma
Great share Stephen and congrats on hitting the mark. When I first got my
Behmor I worried so much about getting the right roast that I over read
everyones posts, Tom's suggestions and the manual. I've done all of my
roasts using P2 and enjoyed everyone. My first roast was over done but since
then have done well with the rest of them. Now I am more confident in how
the Behmor operates and with the power in our house. For me the preset times
on the Behmor work perfectly to give me a C+ to FC roast. It does make it
easier. I am now experimenting with P3 to see if I prefer the flavours and
how they may differ from P2. 
John H.

6) From: Stephen Carey
John, thank you for the nice words and the methodology you use in 
roasting.  Please drop us a post when you work out how P3 works for 
you.  It will be interesting to read.  You are so correct about over 
reading and, for me, over complicating the process.  Joe and Tom have 
done well with the information provided, I just went nuts with it and 
pulled it apart and apart some more, creating difficult, hard to 
accomplish roasts.  What is cool is that even doing that and missing 
the mark sometimes, the roasts still turned out incredibly better 
than any store bought or chain brewed coffee.  Also, I don't think 
the knowledge goes to waste, it will come in handy at some point.
You mention using P2 for many of your roasts.  I haven't used it, but 
a few time.  However, I have a number of roasts I want to use it on, 
I think they will work out well.
Thank you again,
Stephen
At 03:47 PM 7/27/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
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7) From: Dean De Crisce
I like this thred. I have a behmor...and in the beginning as the result of everything I read...i was roasting 1/2 lbs at 1 lb and changing max time settings etc...as you said. The roasts were good but complicated.
I decided to just try what the machine could do as it was designed. I generally use P1 or P3. I find regular full time for P1 is excellent for city plus. I am like a hawk at the door the last few minutes. First crack usually starts with 2 min to go (for 1/2 lb).I may have to stop a little early or add a little time depending on the bean. P1 seems to bring out bright flavors.
I find that P3 is slower. That is, full regular (not max) time is usually just enough to begin first crack (for 1/2 lb). Therefore, I often have to add time...usually a minute for city/city plus. This setting seems to develop body better...taste has been brighter for some and more muted for others. 
it has been easier for me than messing with all the time settings. Perhaps you can get a better cup from that...but I do want some ease of use.
Its fun to play around. 
when you use P2...do you set it up for the specific bean...or just let it go as is?
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

8) From: Paul Helbert
I'll jump in here since I'm now wide awake. I usually roast a quarter pound
P1 set for maximum time allowed and write down the time of initial first
crack, rolling 1st and end of first. Then I hit cool or go a bit longer
depending on preference. Sometimes I try to slow things after first crack by
opening the door one second every fifteen or thirty seconds. Subsequent
roasts have usually been at P2 with time calculated to reduce power at the
time of initial first crack from the P1 run. Same door trickery often used
in the full power phase of P2 after first crack.
Tonight I used one of the "normal" settings for a change. I roasted 112
grams of Cameroon Caplami Java at 1/4# B P3 and had to add the maximum
allowable time to get it through first crack. The extra time was necessary
because first crack had barely started in the normal time, but it was about
finished by the time the automatic cooling function began, and did finish
during the first few seconds of the cooldown. It produced a beautiful and
delicious City+. Sweet aftertaste is still on my lips half an hour since
finishing it.
-- 
Paul Helbert
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9) From: Benjamin VerHage
On the Behmor what do you all consider C and C+ roast levels in terms of 1st crack progress? That's one thing I haven't quite figured out yet. Visual is kind of tough, so I've been trying to rely on ears and nose. Granted each bean is different, but on average what roast level would you consider is reached at the end of 1st crack...C+?
Ben
--- On Sun, 7/27/08, Paul Helbert  wrote:
From: Paul Helbert 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] can't figure out how it worked, but it did
To: homeroast
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 7:48 PM
I'll jump in here since I'm now wide awake. I usually roast a quarter
pound
P1 set for maximum time allowed and write down the time of initial first
crack, rolling 1st and end of first. Then I hit cool or go a bit longer
depending on preference. Sometimes I try to slow things after first crack by
opening the door one second every fifteen or thirty seconds. Subsequent
roasts have usually been at P2 with time calculated to reduce power at the
time of initial first crack from the P1 run. Same door trickery often used
in the full power phase of P2 after first crack.
Tonight I used one of the "normal" settings for a change. I roasted
112
grams of Cameroon Caplami Java at 1/4# B P3 and had to add the maximum
allowable time to get it through first crack. The extra time was necessary
because first crack had barely started in the normal time, but it was about
finished by the time the automatic cooling function began, and did finish
during the first few seconds of the cooldown. It produced a beautiful and
delicious City+. Sweet aftertaste is still on my lips half an hour since
finishing it.
-- 
Paul Helbert
Mid Atlantic Home Roaster's Gatheringhttp://paul.helbert.googlepages.com/midatlantichomeroaster'sgatheringHomeroast mailing list
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10) From: John and Emma
Hi Dean,
I have only roasted a 1/2 lb of beans on my Behmor. I have not yet tried
more than this and will never try less. I started with 1/2lb of beans and
did the 1lb P2 settings that others on the list suggested. After many roasts
I found that roasting 1/2lb on P2 using the 1/2lb setting worked best for me
no matter what beans I used. It was less complicated and consistently hit
the right roast level. I was always going beyond 2nd crack using the 1lb
setting. I like to extend the first two legs of the roast as much as
possible. I want to drag out the temp drop using P2. So with experimenting,
my results have consistently shown that using 1/2lb of green beans I set the
Behmor to 1/2lb - P2 - B and add to maximum time (14:30). After start I can
either reduce the time or just hit cool when roast is finished (either or
doesn't really matter). No matter what bean I've used I am either just
starting first crack before the temp drop or a few seconds after the temp
drop. Consistently using these settings I end up with an FC to FC+ roast
between 13:35 and 13:55. I have also found that using the setting of 1/2lb -
P2 - B and start produces a nice C+ to FC. Again first crack has either
started just before or just after the temp drop. It appears that the Behmor
settings were set up for the power supply in my house. I have never tested
our power output but have tried 3 different outlets with no real difference.
I haven't used my stats to see if it is significant or not :>). 
The only bean I had a challenge with was the Yemen Mokha Sanani. This one
seemed to go from 1st crack to 2nd crack with no stopping in between. I
ended up with a dark oily roast at 14:20. Because the crack continued I
thought it was still first crack and didn't hit cool until I noticed all the
smoke. The next time I roast it I am going to use the P3 or P4 setting. I am
going to experiment more with the P3 setting using other beans first. I want
to try the Yemen using a lower temp roast. It may not make any difference
over just using P1 but one thing I like about the Behmor is the different
temp profiles. My air popper gives me the one temp throughout the roast
result like P1 which is why I have not used this profile yet.
John H.

11) From: Stephen Carey
Ben,
This is a great question and I would guess that there will be 
different answers.  Most books, including  Home Coffee Roasting, 
Romance and Revival, focus on color.  And, I have gotten very good at 
watching the color while using the Behmor.  Also, there is one mod 
that has been around which makes it even easier.  For me, I have to 
admit, I shoot for the color, but also the crack.  City, in most 
cases, for me, is hitting the exact end of a rolling, steady, fast 
first crack.  The beans aren't baked, which can happen so easily if I 
use the wrong profile.  I would love to know what some of our much 
more experienced roasters have to say on this subject.  For all I 
know, I could be doing it all wrong - or have the naming of the roast 
incorrect, whether the roast itself turns out or not.
To be honest, your question almost scares me for it shows how much I 
have to learn, how much is somewhat subjective, and it adds even more 
elements into the mix.  Let's say my concept of a true City is 
correct, what happens if I use a roast that takes much longer, 
stretches the time to first crack way out and almost "slow cooks" the 
bean?  What have I created?  It may be good, but how would I label 
it?  I do know that even if I am wrong on how or what I call finished 
roasts I can tell when I have hit that particular bean spot on; when 
I have taken that bean to where it wants to go in order to offer me 
the best possible flavor.  I don't know how I know this, but I can 
tell.  I seem to know when I need a slower roast, a faster roast, 
more time between first crack and second, that sort of thing.  The 
flavor, plus some experimenting, just tells me.  I seem to be able to 
dial in a roast fairly fast, with a minimum number of roasts - YET- I 
will still try other roasting profiles just to see the differences 
and what else I may come up with, what flavors may pop or even be 
present, but subtle at that roast.
For my IMV, I had NO idea that mango was a flavor that some people do 
manage to get when they roast it.  I had to find Tom's cupping notes 
on the SM site and there he mentioned mango flavor, yet, I had 
already posted about tasting it.  I was amazed and even more pleased.
Let's see what others have to say!!!
Stephen
At 12:25 AM 7/28/2008, you wrote:
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12) From: Seth Grandeau
"I have gotten very good at watching the color while using the Behmor."
Stephen, how do you check the color.  Between the drum, the chaff screen,
and the little window, I've all but given up on color with the Behmor.   Any
advice is greatly appreciated.
On 7/28/08, Stephen Carey  wrote:
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13) From: Stephen Carey
Seth,
The light helps a great deal and I keep the room I am roasting in 
rather dim.  However, and I would need to check the archive for the 
name of the person who suggested this, there is a mod one can make 
that really helps.
First though, I use all of my senses: smell, vision, and hearing - 
okay, not touch - that might be going a bit far.  But the mod had one 
cut a simple square in the chaff screen, near the top left as one 
looked in the window.  That removed the chaff screen from being in 
the way and gives one great view of the beans.  Then it is testing 
and testing to see what the beans look like at various points with 
the light that is in there.  It is much liked the IR2, for me, in 
that regard.  I had to work on what the beans looked like with the 
ambient light from the room and a direct light I put onto 
them.  Then, I had to listen to how the beans sounded over the roar 
of the machine itself, but after a short time I could hear the cracks 
quite easily.  Also, people gave me hints that had helped them.
I think it is a matter of patience and adaption.  With the Behmor 
smell comes into it greatly for me, along with trusting my written 
notes and profiles, adapting them to different beans and to even my 
mood.  I am embarrassed to write that one, but it is true.  I take a 
lot of drugs for stuff and sometimes I will mess up the order of them 
and I will find that when I typically roast and I took the pills out 
of order (no lie, I take 104 per day) - at about 8:00 p.m. I may be 
in a very bad mood.  I may not feel well, I may even be in 
pain.  When this happens I become so self-centered that I don't give 
the beans the attention they deserve (I know I talk about them like 
they are living things - I am odd that way, among other ways).  When 
that happens I really depend on my notes I wrote before the roast of 
what I expect and review the notes from my last roast of that bean in 
that profile.  I can count on Joe's Behmor to do its thing and as I 
move into it my attention turns back to the bean and the beans come 
out very close to what I was going for - not perfect, but still quite good.
Maybe someone will remember the exact instructions for the cutting of 
the chaff screen, DO NOT do it until you have see the pictures and 
drawing of it.  I will search the archives to find it and post it if I do.
I am very sorry I am not more help tonight.  This is one of those 
nights when things are a bit messed up.  I was going to roast, but 
decided to do my partner, myself, and the beans a favor and stay away 
from them.  I think I will call a staff meeting tomorrow at my home 
office and do a roast then - I always love those!!!
Seth, I hope that helped even a fraction.  The pain is winning out 
tonight and I am having trouble even focusing my eyes to type.  Very 
sorry.  I should be giving the same good information as I so often receive.
Have a good night,
Stephen
At 08:28 PM 7/28/2008, you wrote:
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14) From: Stephen Carey
Seth,
I found the mod information I discussed in my earlier post - sorry 
for answering my own post - just one of those very long days.
Anyway, go tohttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm, then type in 
"Behmor mod" and read all about the mod, see how it is done and let 
us know if you think if will work for you.
All the best,
Stephen
At 08:53 PM 7/28/2008, you wrote:
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15) From: Dean De Crisce
Thanks John...maybe ill give P2  a shot. I had exactly the same experience with the yemen...next time I roast it...ill shoot for stopping the roast at one minute into first crack. I expect it to coast to city plus.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

16) From: Dean De Crisce
I'm not sure your question Ben? Ultimately, I choose level by where I end the roast (during first crack or after it has ended) and how long the coast is given the weight (1lb coasts longer than 1/2 lb). I can visually confirm the level by inspection after cooling. City has a wrinkled bean surface and city plus does not.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

17) From: Jamie Dolan
<Snip>
I don't know how you do this on the Behmor, but after many failed
roasts with the Yemens  (same problem as you) I finally learned how to
get them roasted correctly (with some suggestions from tom).  I run
them up at full temperature right into rolling first, then I drop the
temperature as sharply as possible with out stalling the roast, then
pull it out 3 to 5 minutes.  Closer to 5 more minutes for a city + on
a decent size batch (2-3 pounds).  Then I cool them very quickly (room
temp in about 2 minutes).
With this procedure, I have been able to get excellent results the
last couple batches.
Jamie
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18) From: John and Emma
Thanks for the share Jamie. This is similar to the P2 profile on the Behmor.
I'm just glad to hear it wasn't only me who had this problem with the Yemen.
John H.


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