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Topic: how can I mimic a european roast/blend? (22 msgs / 502 lines)
1) From: Sherrie
Hi, y'all.  Y'all are all completely over my head as far as connoisseurship
(is that a word?) and knowledge, but I'd love your input.
I am new to roasting - got a FreshRoast+8 from SM.  I love espresso - my
husband works for a Swedish company and loves the Gevalia they import by the
pallet for the employees.
I know I can roast him something better.  Where can I start to create the
flavors?  He likes it thick and black - American coffee he says is 'dirty
water'.  He also grew up in El Salvador and drank good coffee there (though
I think, at 17, he probably didn't appreciate it).  He has some great
pictures of how the small farms dried their coffee cherries back in the 70s
- on roads.  If a car came by, you had to move all the coffee out of the
way, let the car pass, then spread it again.  
I also (unfortunately) need to cut my own caffeine levels.  My favorite of
SM's blends is Moka Kadir.  Any thoughts on how to 'water' the caffeine down
and still have great taste there?
Very Very New at this:
Sher, FROM the Tennessee Hills, in Seabrook TX
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2) From: Morris Nelson
Me thinks you need an espresso machine. I used to drink Gevalia and enjoyed
it.  
Here in the "expart" part of Shanghai.  Several of the bars and restaurants
that I patronize are run by Europeans serve coffee made by espresso
machines. You won't get a brewed cup of coffee.
Morris

3) From: Bill
Sherrie,
welcome to the list, welcome to roasting!  Hope you enjoy the journey.
Just a quick note in regards to caffeine.  If you haven't drank SM's decaf,
you need to try some!  It's the best decaf I've had, not that I drink much
of it.  Read through the list of Tom's offerings and buy a couple.  I'd try
a 50/50 blend of caf and decaf.  I'm fairly partial to a "Moka/Java" blend
of coffees, so I might buy the decaf Sumatran and pair that with the Sidamo
DP... but listen to your taste buds!
FYI, the Moka Kadir is a dry process blend of Yemens and Ethiopians.  So if
that's enjoyable to your palate, I'd take advantage of a really nice
selection of Ethiopian DPs that Tom is offering right now.  If it were me,
I'd buy a pound of every one of them.  But then, I shouldn't be spending
your money!!!
Happy roasting.
bill
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4) From: Brian Kamnetz
Hi Sherrie,
I don't ever drink decaf, but people on the list rave about Tom's
decaf. Seems like I recall people saying that decaf roasts a bit
faster than "regular" coffee.
Brian
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Bill  wrote:
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5) From: Stephen Carey
Brian,
Hello.  Question for you, maybe you will know the answer.  If it is 
true that decaf roasts faster than non-decaf, what would be the 
difference in the bean; or, what would happen in the decaffination 
process to make it roast faster?  Any idea?  I don't roast it, but 
have been thinking about buying some and roasting it for some 
friends.  I am just wondering what chemically happens to the bean to 
make it roast faster.
Thank you for any help you can be.
Stephen
At 11:09 AM 8/28/2008, you wrote:
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6) From: Brian Kamnetz
Stephen,
Sorry, your question is way beyond what I know. Other than recalling
that people on this list have mentioned that decaf roasts more quickly
than other coffees, I don't know anything at all about it. However, I
guess that doesn't mean that I can't guess.... My understanding is
that the caffeine has been leached out; my best guess would be that
other things have been leached out as well, leaving a less-dense bean
that roasts more quickly, similar to the way lower-grown coffees are
less dense than higher-grown coffees and roast more quickly.
But that is a guess; I may be wandering around way out in left field.
Brian
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Stephen Carey  wrote:
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7) From: Stephen Carey
Brian,
Thank you for the shot at it.  Makes sense to me, but who knows.  I 
just thought you might know.  Thank you very much for taking the time 
to respond.
Stephen
At 04:38 PM 8/28/2008, you wrote:
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8) From: silascoelho
Morris
glad to see someone from shanghai in this list. I lived in shanghai for 5 
yars, and btw I'll be there again on september/10
I 'learned' to drink expresso at DaMarco
regards
Silas

9) From: Bonnie Polkinghorn
I drink and roast mainly decaf coffees.
<Snip>
between first and second crack is shorter when you are roasting
decafs.  If you are very careful and can spread that time by lowering
the temp after the start of first crack, you can be successful
roasting decafs.  For Behmor roasters, that means being able to
accurately predict when 1st crack will happen and programming P2
appropriately.
So, if on P1 it takes 8 minutes to reach 1c, take 8 min. divided by
the 60% point and set your roaster for P2  8/.6 = 13 min.
I used to roast with a stove top whirley popper, and after about a
minute of first crack, I would lower the temp of the stove a bit to
try to lengthen that time.
I do not have my notes with me, they are at home, and if I think of
it, I'll write up some of my roasting times comparing decaf vs.
regular coffees, later.
Later,
Bonnie P.
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Stephen Carey  wrote:
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10) From: raymanowen
Stephen, you do that and your friends will each take One (1) sip and swear
you're lying about the decaf bit. You'll have to provide an A-B comparison
brew.
Even so, your credibility will diminish. Even the beans Tom sells that have
been decaffeinated by the Methylene Chloride (paint remover) process are
undetectable, flavor wise. The caffeine molecule is removed from the green
coffee by boiling or steaming and a solvent, all of which is rinsed out of
the beans.
I understand the European standard for residual caffeine in decaf coffee is
much tighter than in the US, where the decaffeinated beans can contain 30X
the caffeine of the Euro standard.
Gotta taste that Euro stuff- Right away!  Maybe Not- SM doesn't carry it...
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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11) From: Bill
Been at dinners multiple times and have provided the decaf.  Guests will
look at me incredulously and ask, "you swear that this is decaf?"  I'll
smile and nod, they'll pour their third or fourth cup and enjoy it.  Then
they'll sleep like a baby and marvel at it the next time they see me.
I roast decaf for my dentist who can't drink caffeine during the week.  He
filled a cavity for me today (need to drink more beer, less soda!), and
couldn't stop talking about how much he liked my last batch, which was 50/50
sumatra/ethiopian.
gotta taste it to believe it.  And rayO's right... read Tom's notes.  He's a
coffee guy, cupper, etc, and he notes on several of his coffees that he
can't tell anymore that they're decaf. wow.
bill
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:27 PM,  wrote:
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12) From: R Nepsund
Tisk Tisk.   The first place to look for coffee information is at Sweet
Marias.http://www.sweetmarias.com/articles.shtmlEthyl Acetate Decaf Process 
CO-2 Decaf Method 
Genetic Decaf Coffee Trees !
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13) From: Stephen Carey
Ray,
Do what?  I asked about roast times, that's all.  Must be someone else's post.
Stephen
At 07:27 PM 8/28/2008, you wrote:
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14) From: Justin Marquez
I roast a batch of decaf and a batch of regular at least once a week.
Decaf roasts in about 85% of the time for regular coffee. And it rolls into
second crack a lot faster than regular.
I haven't got a clue as to why.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Stephen Carey wrote:
<Snip>
--
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15) From: John Grubbs
Justin,
I agree with your comments about roasting decaf beans. It always seems to me
that they reach 1C a "little" faster than regular beans, but then they seem
to kick in the afterburner. I'm still struggling to learn how much to back
off the heat to gain control of the stage between 1C and 2C.
John
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16) From: Morris Nelson
Silas,
I live in Pudong, the "suburbs".  I'm not the only roaster in town.  There
is another in Puxi. If you've got nothing to do one evening give me a holler
off list, we can chew on some beans.
Morris

17) From: silascoelho
Morris
Have you haver found any coffee roast machine (home use) to sell in 
Shanghai? I'm planing to buy a Hearthware 2, but eventually I can find 
something there. I  remember a small rd (Puxi) that sells everything for 
restaurants, but really dont remeber to see any roaster there. Do you know 
any?
regards
Silas

18) From: Vicki Smith
I've been semi-around. It's been a tough few weeks for me--heck I even
bought a pound of roasted coffee (local roaster, not bad) because I just
couldn't do the 15 minutes standing in my garage to roast. I am off all 
of next week. That should do the trick.
It would have been a good time to own a Behmor :)
vicki
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
 > > Speaking of Vicki, I don't recall any posts from her for quite a
 > > while. Hope she is doing ok.
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19) From: raymanowen
I was just reading some words- probably misunderstood:
"... thinking about buying some [decaf beans] and roasting it for some
friends.  I am just"
Sori na lang, Mabuhay- RayO, aka Opa!
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Stephen Carey wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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20) From: Bill
glad you're still around vicki.  enjoy the time off!bill
On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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21) From: Brian Kamnetz
Vicki,
Hope it is a time issue, nothing more. Enjoy roasting next week!
Brian
On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 2:25 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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22) From: Lynne
Vicki -
Hoping all is well...
Lynne
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