HomeRoast Digest


Topic: OT: McDonald's lattes (35 msgs / 843 lines)
1) From: Kris McN
Hi All,
There's a post on a blog I read regularly this morning with a new commercial
from McDonald's http://www.feministing.com/archives/011088.html Warning:
this is a feminist blog and the swear words are thrown around freely, so if
that sort of thing offends you...).  Apparently they're trying to move
further into the Starbucks market by selling lattes and other milk-based
coffee drinks.  What I love about this ad is that it denigrates women AND
coffee houses in one go.  Awesome!
I can't imagine they're going to have actual espresso machines installed in
McD's, not even superautos, so they must be using a coffee concentrate of
some sort. Yum.
Best,
Kris McN
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2) From: Brandon Kolbe
The McDonalds my daughter used to work at recently "upgraded" to the new
espresso based drinks.  I have not gone there, yet, to check it out.  I am
rather curious though.  I can't imagine that McDonalds would be able to pull
a decent shot.  But, then again, perhaps they don't need to if they add
enough milk and syrup.  It will be interesting to see what their setup is
like.
Happy Roasting,
Brandon
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Kris McN  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"We are what we think.
All that we are arises
With our thoughts.
With our thoughts,
We make our world."
-- Buddha
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3) From: kevin creason
they appear to be getting superautos, at least the two mcCafe's i've seen.
hmm... i should get a straightforward espresso next time for an honest
college try before forming my opinion.
On 9/17/08, Brandon Kolbe  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
-Kevin
/* Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and
beat you with experience. */
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4) From: Alberto Laplaine
This is Sooooo gooood... hahahahaha....
Thanks guys
Alberto
2008/9/17, Kris McN :
<Snip>
if
<Snip>
in
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
-- =
Alberto Pereira de Araújo Laplaine
alaplaine
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5) From: ramona cramer
Thank you for pointing out the blog for I had not seen the ad. Regardless o=
f swear words (you were kind to provide the warning) it is a very helpful s=
ite that even provides the links to appropriately complain ! I suspect that=
 McD will just look at those with a "there is no publicity is bad" attitude=
 until there is an effect on the bottomline.  That might be awhile since =
people will want to try those yummy freshly made syrup (?) drinks out of cu=
riosity.  As my continuing experiments in Spanish roasting with a dog bow=
l and heat gun have taught my friends-milk and sugar have amazing curative =
powers. I suspect the recipe will work for them also. =
--- On Wed, 9/17/08, Kris McN  wrote:
From: Kris McN 
Subject: [Homeroast] OT: McDonald's lattes
To: "homeroast" 
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 10:25 AM
Hi All,
There's a post on a blog I read regularly this morning with a new
commercial
from McDonald's http://www.feministing.com/archives/011088.html Warning:
this is a feminist blog and the swear words are thrown around freely, so if
that sort of thing offends you...).  Apparently they're trying to move
further into the Starbucks market by selling lattes and other milk-based
coffee drinks.  What I love about this ad is that it denigrates women AND
coffee houses in one go.  Awesome!
I can't imagine they're going to have actual espresso machines
installed in
McD's, not even superautos, so they must be using a coffee concentrate of
some sort. Yum.
Best,
Kris McN
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6) From: Sandy Andina
Well, that ad must be right up Sarah Palin's alley.  Bon appetit, Guv,  
and don't get any lipstick stains on your McLatte!
On Sep 17, 2008, at 12:25 PM, Kris McN wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
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7) From: Lynne
Spew alert!!!!!!
ROTFL!!!
Thank you, Sandy, for that one.
Lynne
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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8) From: Peter Genuardi
I would love to make a "video response" to this ad.  The thing that kills me
in their messaging is the condescending tone they make about knowing the
origin of their beans "Paraguay."
The damage to social awareness that this line of thinking does to my (and
many of our) concerns for the farmers is almost as bad as the damage it does
to the role of women in society.
Does anyone know where McD's sources their beans?
Has anyone had the opportunity to cup them against a more familiar, high
quality product (pardon me for assuming their quality will be lower)?
 - Peter
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:37 PM, ramona cramer  wrote:
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9) From: Justin Marquez
I thought we were not going to "go political" in the list anymore. Every
time such threads have started in the past it has resulted in much off-topic
(and frequently toxic) bandwidth.
I'd hazard a guess that nobody's vote will be swayed by political comments
made here. I believe there is absolutely nothing to be gained.
I would respectfully request that we all stick to more coffee-related
comments and enjoy a less stressful day.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
--
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10) From: Brian Kamnetz
Justin,
Good points.
Brian
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Justin Marquez  wrote:
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11) From: Sandy Andina
Some on this list immediately jumped on my post in response to the  
McDonald's commercial, stating that we must remain apolitical in our  
posts to this list.  However, I watched that commercial, and concur  
with Kris that it goes WAY beyond its ostensible and surface message  
that there are now other places than Starbucks  to get specialty  
coffee drinks.  More insidiously, it seems to be a calculated attempt  
by DDB (the ad agency that created it) to tap into a growing anti- 
intellectual and quasi-populist sentiment that considers the  
coffeehouse culture (and Starbucks in particular) to be repositories  
and perpetuators of such evil elitist things as jazz background music,  
intellectual discourse, caring (and knowing) about the world outside  
America, and women dressing for comfort when we all obviously yearn to  
kick off our flats and Birks and slip on a pair of Manolo Blahnik or  
Jimmy Choo stiletto heels and let our inner "real women" out.  Not  
only is that sentiment disgusting and demeaning, it is expressed  
constantly by one side of the political spectrum in general and one  
Presidential ticket specifically.......with the number 2 person on  
that ticket explicitly using that philosophy to attempt to both shore  
up her ticket's "base" and draw "real American women" over to her side  
of the aisle primarily on the basis of sharing that philosophy with her.
Folks, it ain't just about Starbucks charging too much for poorly-made  
drinks using stale over-roasted beans.  The commercial itself is an  
explicit gauntlet thrown down in an artificially declared "culture"  
and "class war."    The commercial is inseparable from its political  
message, a message touted by one candidate more than by any other.   
THAT's why I posted what I did---in a lighthearted way, without making  
any false or slanderous accusations  (that particular candidate may  
like her white chocolate mochas but she wouldn't be caught dead in a  
Green Mermaid shop, and she expressly and inextricably linked herself  
publicly with a certain cosmetic).  I was not trying to start any  
arguments or change any minds, just make a quip that someone else  
would inevitably have made (perhaps more or less competently).  I will  
definitely never make any comments regarding anyone on this list's  
actual beliefs whether spiritual or political--but a public figure her- 
or-himself is fair game, especially when something as coffee-related  
as that commercial is also such a blatant attempt to tap into public  
sentiment in favor of that public figure.
What is especially telling is that some who condemned my choice to  
post my remark (I have no quarrel with anyone disagreeing with it  
substantively) said they didn't even bother to view that commercial,  
declaring they didn't need to or didn't have the time to waste. All I  
can say is THAT itself speaks volumes.  (BTW, I chose not to read the  
blog following the ad, so I will not presume to comment upon the blog).
If we have to keep our lips zipped at every single turn and suppress  
our sense of humor just because some people are hypersensitive about  
their choice of candidate, then I am afraid you will not see me  
posting here very often.
On Sep 17, 2008, at 12:25 PM, Kris McN wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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12) From: Patrick R. Sklenar
<Snip>
they have a male version as well:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg87E1tjTOEpat----
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13) From: Sandy Andina
well, at least it's not antifeminist but it is similarly  
anti-"elitism" (and I deliberately use quotation marks) and by  
implication anti-intellectual.  More importantly, the ad agency should  
have realized that even though they think they're being evenhanded by  
skewering both male and female stereotypes, the impact on women is  
disproportionate and loaded even if such was not its conscious  
intent.  Men have not felt compelled to embrace explicitly "guy stuff"  
in order to gain women's attention and approval--the converse is not  
true.
On Sep 18, 2008, at 3:46 PM, Patrick R. Sklenar wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
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14) From: Dave
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
Well said Sandy!
-- 
Dave
Some days...
It's just not worth chewing through the leather straps
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15) From: Tom Ulmer
Bolivia?

16) From: Gary Foster
On 9/18/08 1:39 PM, "Sandy Andina"  wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
While I may agree with your underlying sentiment, viewpoints and reasoning,
I'd like to address this part specifically (if I may).
I admin a large forum for homebrewing.  I quickly and ruthlessly stomp on
any and every political thread that starts (also religious discussions).  I
stomp on them even when they show just a faint hint of political discourse
because time after time after time the minority of troublemakers on the
forum use that as leverage to start haranguing everyone else and the entire
place devolves into bitterness and vitriol.
I don't hate politics (well, I sort of do I guess) and I definitely don't
hate religion (I'm a practicing Catholic) but I also would like to be able
to go places and be members of communities where it's not all about angry
shouting and belittling of people, namecalling and stereotyping and I have
*yet* to see any community where this doesn't happen as a result of
political discussions.
I'd prefer that I not get a daily dose of vitriol with my coffee.
As an aside, I'm not saying what you did was vitriolic... I'm just saying
that once you let the horse get it's nose in the barn door you pretty much
are done for so unfortunately those people (like you) who want to engage in
intelligent debate end up getting squelched too, merely because it only
takes one other person to ruin things.
We already have enough cantankerousness around here.  Politics would
escalate it exponentially and it wouldn't be long before the whole place
went pear shaped.
-- Gary F.
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17) From: Justin Marquez
Hear, hear!
You said that ever so much better than I did!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Gary Foster  wrote:
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18) From: Rich
I agree with Gary here.
Gary Foster wrote:
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19) From: Sandy Andina
Gary,
So I put my nose in the barn door.  How many people on this list have  
you seen actually try to open it further?  The only person who got  
explicitly political in his response to me did so backchannel, and my  
explicit rebuttal was also done backchannel.  I suggest that we here  
on the list have the intelligence to make a mild quip exchange without  
turning it into a knockdown-dragout brawl.  We've already shown that.   
I posit that if my post was out of line, so was the post containing  
the ad that engendered it. But since that post DID concern something  
we've all talked about (McDonalds/Starbucks), it was relevant.....and  
so was my response.
On Sep 18, 2008, at 5:01 PM, Gary Foster wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
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20) From: Sandy Andina
One more thing---"cantankerousness?"  Passionate disagreement about  
various aspects of coffee and homeroasting is suddenly unacceptable?   
Please.  The OT designation gives everyone the options to filter out a  
message, hit "delete" or just not read a post--and it does so without  
requiring the efforts of a moderator.
If thine eye offend thee........
On Sep 18, 2008, at 5:01 PM, Gary Foster wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
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21) From: Gary Foster
You are, of course entitled to your opinion.  I am also, however, entitled
to my own opinion and I was merely trying to point out that not everyone is
able to just stick a toe in when responding to a "friendly little quip" and
that one person's "friendy little quip" is another person's incitement to an
argument.
I stand on my experience that there's no such thing as "a little politics"
when it comes to these things.  I'm sorry if you are intent on defending
yourself because I'm not intending on attacking you, nor am I trying to
start an argument... I'm just merely saying that I disagree with you, not
trying to tell you that you are wrong.  The problem is, a lot of people
can't tell the difference between those two concepts, so when you start that
type of discussion yes... It most definitely is "putting your nose in the
barn door"
It would be nice to assume that everyone on this list is intelligent enough
to engage in witty political repartee.  I *do* believe this list is made up
of intelligent people.  I posit that it has nothing to do with intelligence,
though, and everything to do with restraint and passion.  I personally do
*not* believe that any community is 100% made up of members able to resist
that siren call.  So far, I've never been proven wrong.  All it takes is ONE
person to get all butt hurt or misconstrue something and then all manner of
angry exchanges start to break loose.  Personally I have enough angry
exchanges already in my life.
I used to believe that intelligent adults could be trusted to treat each
other respectfully even when they have differences of opinion.
Unfortunately, that breaks down once the community gets over about 3 people
in size and my experiences have shown that the only way to stop that is to
not let it start.
When it comes to politics, open minded rational exchange is vanishingly
rare.  People in general don't want to have intelligent witty discussions,
nor do they want to have an open mind and rationally discuss ideas.  They
want to tell you how wrong you are and how stupid you are if you don't agree
with them.  They want to shout you down, stereotype and marginalize you.
They sure as heck don't want to look at things rationally and allow room for
differing opinions.  There's a direct correlation between "different" and
"wrong" for a lot of people and nobody wants their own sacred cow
slaughtered.
Now, I don't know you and you may very well be different.  In point of fact,
most people *are* different when you are sitting down one on one sharing a
cup of coffee and having a gab.  I have no doubt that you are intelligent,
open minded, and able to talk about an issue without demonizing the other
side.  However, that still doesn't mean that when you "nose into the barn"
everyone else will respond in kind.  Sometimes the baby gets thrown out with
the bathwater.  Sorry.  Life sucks sometimes and it's not always fair.
-- Gary F.
On 9/18/08 4:50 PM, "Sandy Andina"  wrote:
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22) From: Gary Foster
I think you are attributing way too much to me.  I don't think anyone can
deny that people in this community can be cantankerous at times.  I'm one of
them and I just recently got all cantankerous about Rocky grinders if you
recall.
I never once said that passionate disagreement about various aspects of
coffee and homeroasting was unacceptable on this list, and I don't really
appreciate you putting those words in my mouth.  I did say that it was my
personal opinion that politics (even just a "little" politics) was out of
place and that's it.  Reading anymore into it beyond that and that alone is
on your own head, just because you're climbing out on that limb doesn't mean
I forced you to climb the tree.
I think you need to stop scolding me because I'm certainly not trying to
scold you.  I'm merely offering a dissenting viewpoint.  You are proving my
point that it's difficult for people to express differing viewpoints without
someone taking it personally and getting their nose out of joint.
-- Gary F.
On 9/18/08 4:54 PM, "Sandy Andina"  wrote:
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23) From: Sandy Andina
And what the heck is wrong about that?  Must we be reduced to merely  
asking technical questions but refraining from griping about beans,  
equipment, and coffeehouses that have disappointed us?  Of course not.
On Sep 18, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Gary Foster wrote:
<Snip>
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24) From: Brian Kamnetz
It takes very little to set off strong feelings when it comes to
politics/religion. I remember the ugliness that wracked the list a few
months ago. If I recall correctly, that started with an offhand
comment on global warming. The discussion was interesting for a while,
but then turned very ugly. I hate to see that happen. It is not fun.
And when it happens, and someone tries to step into the fray and be
the voice of reason, they get beat up, because by then contentiousness
is rampant. I personally dread the problems that arise from politics
being injected into listservs, even when the intent was innocent.
Brian
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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25) From: Gary Foster
Nothing at all is wrong with that.  You constantly seem to mangle my  
simple "please dear God in heaven no politics" into "Sandy, you are  
not allowed to gripe or complain about anything" and quite frankly, it  
baffles the heck out of me.
Gripe all you want about anything you want... Tell me my roasting  
skills suck or my PIDded Silvia is a steam toy or that I have the  
palate of a mentally challenged third grader, just please don't do  
politics.  Even though I suspect we have fairly similar views I would  
really like at least one small bastion of sanity.  I have already  
given up on TV and the paper...
-- Gary F.
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 18, 2008, at 18:38, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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26) From: sci
Okay, that video is just stupid IMHO. It tries to be funny by parodying
coffee shop folks who are intellectuals, but on another it reveals something
disturbing. Advertising, a soft science loosely connected to sociology, has
here become social criticism. I'm guessing that independent coffee shop
owners are ticked, as well as women, who are portrayed as pseudo
intellectuals. I know some sharp intellectuals who are women. Now, ladies,
you can have a latte and get back to low-brow culture at MDs. My take is
that this isn't going to work well. Sure MDs will sell lots of lattes, but
the coffee shop offers something MDs can't, won't: quality.
On Sep 17, 2008, at 12:25 PM, Kris McN wrote:
<Snip>
AND
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
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27) From: miKe mcKoffee
MickyD is doing what America as a whole seems to all to often do best, warp
history and reality for a buck. Historically the coffee houses where in fact
centers of intellectuals and business. Lloyd's of London started as a coffee
house. Beyond both the male and female versions of the commercial making
ignorance something to strive for just the look of MickyD's so called
"espresso beverages" in the videos should make anyone who knows a real
cappuccino or latte cringe and retch. Yet another market attempt at foosting
more mediocrity on the masses. I admit I still sometimes struggle to make
good silky microfoam on the Linea, don't get enough consistent shift time
with so many other owner duties, but that stiff cotton ball crap in the
videos...PLEASE! I've no doubt the quality of MickD's espresso is on par
with their milk. They will likely sell millions of them. And as an
independent quality focused coffee house owner it makes no difference. The
preponderance of espresso served out there is already dreck. Quality focused
shops cannot compete on their prices and marketing, only on our quality.
Those who seek quality will find us in time...
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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28) From: David Martin
I suspect that trying to compete with coffee shops is only half the
story. Of course, they do hope to capture some of that business, but
more importantly, having a line of pseudo-gourmet coffee drinks
differentiates them from their direct competitors - Burger King,
Arby's, etc.
I think it's interesting that both McD's and BK are going so
'low-brow' in their commercials. It seems they've realized that stupid
knuckle-draggers comprise a large portion of their customer base, and
they're aggressively going after that demographic. :-)
-Dave
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 8:57 PM, sci  wrote:
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29) From: Rich
Maybe they have noticed the success of The Onion.  Satire sells.
David Martin wrote:
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30) From: Seth Grandeau
I thought the ads reminded me of Dunk'n Donuts commercial where they made
fun of people ordering in a Starbucks "Is it French or is it
Italian...perhaps Fritalian..."  I see the point that they're playing up
stereotypes, but I agree with Rich, it's satire.  I think they're trying to
be funny to catch your attention and point out that they now offer these
drinks.  I don't think the small local coffeeshop customer who is interested
in quality is going to care, but the person who is buying from the big
chains now has another option.
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 2:21 AM, Rich  wrote:
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31) From: Angelo
I haven't done the actual count, but I'm willing to bet that the word 
count of just 2 messages proposing no discussion of politics is much 
greater than the 2 line quip that most people didn't even bother to 
respond to.
I found the ad to be denigrating, not only to women, but to anyone 
who is interested in quality, or learning, of any sort. We on this 
list ARE interested in quality, and learning, so this ad is an attack 
on us and our commitment. To extend this to a general attitude that 
is being spread throughout the general public is not a stretch.
I really don't care about the political aspect of this (the country 
always gets what it deserves, anyway), but when they dare to tread on 
Jazz, they have stepped over the line!! It may be time for me to get 
to the local McD with my old boom-box and treat the folks there to a 
wee bit of Ornette Coleman...
A.
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32) From: Floyd Lozano
I wish people would stop talking about McDonalds already.  I'm fixin
to have a Big Mac Attack!  I think I know what I'm having for lunch
today ;)
-F
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Angelo  wrote:
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33) From: Michael Dhabolt
Angelo,
<Snip>
now there is a sentiment that I'll buy into.
Mike (just plain)
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34) From: Bob Glasscock
Or, hey, how 'bout some Rufus Harley and some jazz bagpipes??
Bob Glasscock
I haven't done the actual count, but I'm willing to bet that the word 
count of just 2 messages proposing no discussion of politics is much 
greater than the 2 line quip that most people didn't even bother to 
respond to.
I found the ad to be denigrating, not only to women, but to anyone 
who is interested in quality, or learning, of any sort. We on this 
list ARE interested in quality, and learning, so this ad is an attack 
on us and our commitment. To extend this to a general attitude that 
is being spread throughout the general public is not a stretch.
I really don't care about the political aspect of this (the country 
always gets what it deserves, anyway), but when they dare to tread on 
Jazz, they have stepped over the line!! It may be time for me to get 
to the local McD with my old boom-box and treat the folks there to a 
wee bit of Ornette Coleman...
A.
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35) From: Angelo
That'll work..  :-)
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