HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Gesha question (34 msgs / 765 lines)
1) From: Seth Grandeau
This question is for those of you who bought the big $ geshas.  Do you think
the less expensive lots (5 and 10) capture the "gesha experience" of the big
$ lots?  I don't think I can wrap my head around $125/lb for coffee, but I
can cetainly see buying some of the lower priced gesha.
Thanks for any advice or guidance.
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2) From: MikeG
Lot 10 was like drinking a basket of damn blue berries on days 1-3
after roasting.  I sat there wishing I were drinking coffee :-)
Cool stuff, and enjoyable in it's own right, but no desire to reorder here.
Mike
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
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3) From: Les
The difference is like hamburger and fillet mignon.  You know they are
both beef,  So if you what the beef experience either will due, but if
you want the full flavor complexity with awesome lingering tastes go
for the lot 2.  The lot 2 is a palate blowing experience.  Is it worth
the $125.00?  Only you can decide for yourself.  I am glad I bought a
pound.  Besides, you get another pound of lot 10 in the deal.
Les
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 7:14 AM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
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4) From: Alchemist John
Hrm, mind you, I have not had either, but I simply can't wrap my head 
around that analogy.  The difference is just too great and I can't 
see Tom selling 'hamburger'.  Again, not having had either, might it 
be more like the difference in maybe aged and non-aged fillet 
mignon.  Or maybe non-aged tenderloin vs aged fillet mignon?
Seth, I am with you per se, I simply can't wrap my head around 
$125/lb regardless of quality or taste.  I am a lover of single malt 
scotches, and have watched people flinch when I say I get 
$80-$90/bottle malts, but it would even have to be something special 
for me to put out $125 there.  The $16/lb for the Liberica was my 
limit, and worth it IMO, but that was about it, and just barely.
At 08:44 AM 9/20/2008, you wrote:
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5) From: Seth Grandeau
I winced at $23/lb for some of the new Kau Hawaiian Coffees, and I've bought
just about every Kona that's been offered (if they hung around long enough
for me to order).  I don't begrudge those who spend $125, hell, I envy
them.  I just can't get myself to do it. :)  Besides, I need to upgrade my
grinder first (my current one cost less than 1 lb of lot 2 gesha).
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Alchemist John
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6) From: miKe mcKoffee
Interesting, C Note not out of line for a good Single Malt Scotch but
unthinkable for any coffee. Guess it's a matter of taste priorities and
value attached. Even if strictly pulled straight shots the volume of nectar
from a LB would exceed a fifth of Scotch. Is it there's more value placed on
anesthetics than stimulants? And where do hallucinogens fit in? (Though I've
had a few shots that would near qualify:-)
I'd agree somewhat more with Alchemist's analogy than Les's. 
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7) From: Michael Wascher
I enjoy the Geshas, have bought most of the Geshas except the
hyper-expensive lots. I was treated to a cup of the $125 Gesha, roasted by
one more skilled than me.
Yes, it was fantastic. but at least to me it wasn't the difference between
hamburger & fillet mignon. It was more like the difference betwen a T-Bone &
filet mignon. Both fantastic but different.
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:44 AM, Les  wrote:
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-- 
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8) From: Les
Come on Mike and Alchemist John, it was before my double shot that I
posted my analogy.  Maybe a better would be a Kobe fillet and a Black
Angus fillet.  Price wise it makes a good analogy too.  I am glad I
bought mine, but we all have to pick our choices based on our own
reasons for homeroasting.  Will I do it again?   I don't know.  I have
passed over some of my favorites to make up the extra spent on the
Gesha, so in the long run, I have stayed within my coffee budget.  It
has been hard to see some of those come and go.
Les
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 4:46 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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9) From: miKe mcKoffee
OTOH while Esmeralda Lot 5 is a "very" good coffee, some even find it
excellent, it is indeed but a shadow of Greater Geshas. One thing I've
learned for sure is GGs have a wider roast latitude, you gotta nail Lot 5 to
get it to sing. Even then can't match 'em. OTOH Lot 5 tends to be more
balanced, especially as a straight shot, yet OTOH again lacks the wildly
vibrant dance of the GGs. 
Typed with the linger of a right tasty Lot 5 dopio fresh on the palate after
getting home from an 84LB 13 back to back batch URSC session... Small
potatoes compared to the big boys, but it was my largest session to date and
look forward to them getting bigger and more frequent!
Now off to grill some mahi mahi for din din:-)
Oh, that Yirg' Kochere DP Esmeralda Lot 5 Americano first cup of the morning
was quite good, but next time will reduce the Kochere DP down to 40% or
so...
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10) From: Robert Flanery
With a good single Malt, it is a matter of many years and manipulations of
the barrel to bring this wonderful finished product to me.
In the case of a coffee, it takes several years to cultivate the trees to a
certain maturity, but the product will be much more variable from year to
year,
Hmmm,  I guess it is a simple matter of what you like.  I prefer good
bourbons myself, and that would fall under the category of neither.  Had I
the opportunity to try out the more expensive things in life, I would surely
avail myself.  Simple Economics.  I can't.
Besides, the way my 2 daughters keep picking up and downing my cup of
coffee, I would not want to see a masterpiece get slammed by a four year
old.
Rob
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 9:45 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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11) From: Bob Hazen
That one merits a spew alert!  Really tickled my funny bone to think of your 
48" people getting under your radar and snarfing down $125/lb coffee.
Bob
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12) From: Alchemist John
You know, this is why I like this list.  It makes me think, ponder, 
question and figure out things.  I hold by my statement, but I have 
to know work out why.  I like coffee quite a bit.  Same for 
Scotch.  Same for ales.  Would I pay $125 for an ale?  No bloody 
way.  Why, hrm, there is the crux I think.  Ales are meant for one 
sitting and $125 is too much for one sitting.  I think that is 
similar for the coffee.  At best, I could roast it in 4 batches and 
stretch it out for some time.  It isn't a volume thing really, or 
even serving size thing.  A 5th of scotch may well last me 6 months, 
often a year.  But it is savored over that time and is not prone to 
degradation.  Even my drinking methods are different.  A cup of 
coffee might last 10-15 minutes.  A serving of scotch 2-3 times 
that.  And a shot - well, that is sub 2 minutes. I think that nails 
it down.  $ vs time enjoyed.  Just the way I am wired I guess.  It 
has nothing to do with taste priorities or anesthetic vs 
stimulant.   If there was a 'good' way to roast a cup worths of 
coffee at a time (20-30 g) I might well do it.  But there isn't IMO 
(for me).  Sure, I could pop that amount in my drum roaster, but it 
IS going to roast different and before I would roast it I would want 
to relearn to roast that amount on other coffees.  So then, that 
'work', on top of the $$ just makes it, as you put it, unthinkable.
At 04:46 PM 9/20/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
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13) From: Les
What Alchemist John just posted is what I consider true diversity.
Diversity in it best light.  Not the surface stuff we always read
about.  I on the other hand seek to experience the unknown in my
coffee adventure.  What does that, that is deemed the best of the best
really taste like?  For me the value is in the exploration of what
happened in Panama this year.  Does it really make a difference to be
so super careful and picky about the harvest and keeping plots
separate?  If Tom would have simply offered the $125.00 lot, I doubt I
would have gone for it.  However since I can compare 4 coffees from
the same farm harvested from different areas at different times, it
makes the adventure worth it.  Beyond the exceptional flavor of lot 2,
comparing the lots with each other is a fascinating experience for me.
 I find this kind of exploration of the coffee experience to be one of
the most intriguing parts of the hobby.  This afternoon I am finally
getting around to roasting the DP and WP Koratie from Ethiopia.  They
will be roasted on the same day and compared.  It is going to be
really really fun for me.  I doubt I would have bought Kroatie if it
hadn't been offered this way.  When Tom said he was going to do it,
these two coffees went on my "must buy" list.   Isn't it nice that we
are not all the same!
Les
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Alchemist John
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14) From: Seth Grandeau
Another dimension for me is cost to comparables.  A decent scotch is going
to run you $40 or $50, so $125, while extravagant, is only 2 - 3 times as
much.  A decent coffee, as we all know, can be had for $5 to $10, that makes
lot 2 10 - 25 times as expensive.  Again, I admire those who so enjoy their
passion for coffee that they can appreciate this fine coffee.  But as
someone who can't, would lot 5 or 10 still give me a gesha experience? :)
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Alchemist John
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15) From: Angelo
Money vs. Time Of Enjoyment. That's a good breakdown. Of course, the 
value of the money to a particular person has to be taken into 
account, as well as the amount of time it takes to make that money. 
Some people (not me, fer sure) can make $125 in half a sec, so that 
would definitely skew the equation.
My ex-gov spent $4000/hr on hookers. To me, that is ridiculous but in 
his circle of people (multi-millionaires), this might be a common 
price.. Sort of the equivalent of a $10 haircut...
Then again, I know someone who goes to Atlantic City or Vegas with a 
set amount of money and plays only with that. His fun is not to win 
money, but to see how long he can play for that set amount. Different 
strokes, etc..
A
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16) From: Bob Hazen
Great post!  $125/lb is way above my threshold of pain for coffee.  My 
threshold of pain for whisky is about $100/bottle.  At the gut level, this 
made complete sense to me.  I hadn't really applied any logic to the issue. 
I didn't even consider the pricey Gesha, but I'll contemplate $250 whisky. 
No..., I never did buy any, although I did taste a pricey 25YO Bowmore.  It 
was superb, but not so much so that I'd buy it over $60 whisky.  And it 
would have dogged me thinking it was roughly $20 per serving.
This notion of cost vs. duration of enjoyment is spot-on, methinks.  Coupled 
with my ability to really mess up roasting or brewing some fine coffee I can 
accept $100 whisky and probably $10-$15 coffee.
Bob

17) From: Gary Foster
Maybe I'm skewed (probably) but my house malt is 18 yo MacAllan, which
is roughly $150 a bottle.  That $150 bottle will last me a year (6 mos
if it's a bad year).  I'll spend that with no qualms.  I can't imagine
spending that on a lb of coffee that's going to last me a lot less
time.
That does not mean that everyone else should feel that way.  I feel no
envy towards the people who can and will drop that coin on coffee,
honestly I think to myself "well, if it's worth it to them good on
them".  My old boss used to buy Clan Macgregor blended scotch in the
plastic jug and thought I was an idiot for drinking the MacAllan.
Different priorities for different people and that's what makes the
world go 'round.
The difference for me, I guess, is that I can appreciate the
differences between $50 singlemalt and $150 singlemalt and the
differences to my palate are glaring and as wide a gulf as can be (I
do enjoy several $50 singlemalts, I'm not a bigot).  However, a $125
coffee would honestly be wasted on me.  I don't have the palate to
discern enough of that gulf to truly appreciate it.  I know my
limitations.
-- Gary F.
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Bob Hazen  wrote:
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18) From: miKe mcKoffee
Agree, some of the most interesting and educational aspects of coffee have
been comparisons. Same central processed WP & Miel, African WP & Natural,
Kona Typica & JBM seedstock same farm, Esmeralda from different areas and
pickings of same farm, all 4 different Island of St. Helena offerings (back
when it was good and could be had, IIRC you and I where about the only ones
that 'went there') to name a few. Heck just get 4 or 5 of "same/similar"
type and they'll be differences, sometimes huge. Just order some of every
Sumatra or Guat' or Brazil etc. Tom offers! And we're talking differences in
quality offerings not run of the mill stuff or worse that is out there.
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19) From: Bob Hazen
Another good point, Gary...  The differences in whiskies are vast to my 
palate.  While I'm a fan of Islay whiskies, I can appreciate something like 
Dalwhinnie as well.  The difference is like comparing honey to blackstrap 
molasses.
I confess that I simply don't have the sensitive tastebuds to discern the 
subtleties of many coffee varieties.  Sure, I have a feel for body, acidity 
etc., but I have never tasted blueberries, mango, citrus or really any of 
those non-coffee flavors.  I am more in tune with the roast level, rest time 
and brewing method than the variety of the coffee.  Heresy, perhaps, but at 
least I can tell the difference between a Kona and Horse!
Perhaps this all about learning and experience.  I am much younger in my 
coffee journey than I am with whisky.  I can still taste... er, remember my 
first sip of Laphroaig.  Some would say Laphroaig is an acquired taste, but 
I was euphoric - it was like sticking my face in a peat fire!  Is there such 
a thing as a 20 year aftertaste?
The same goes for my first taste of homeroast.  Oh man... that was 
incredible.  The jump up to homeroast from the local roasters' stuff was 
huge.  As was the jump to 1970's Starbucks from Mom & Dad's MJB.  Those 
increments were huge and obvious.  I'm not sure the jump to Gesha would be 
that vast.  Of course, nothing ventured, nothing gained.  I suppose if Gesha 
was indeed that incredible, I'd never want to go back to "regular" 
homeroast; just as I haven't gone back to blended Scotch since that fateful 
date with Laphroag.
Bob

20) From: Les
Seth,
No one has really answered your question. So I will.  Yes lot 5 or 10
will give you a true Gesha experience.
Les
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Bob Hazen  wrote:
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21) From: John Despres
I concur, Les. The comparison is exactly what prompted my purchase of 
all the Geshas. I'm working my up to the high end, and am exactly half 
way there. I'm still playing with lots 5 & 10 and will be trying lot 3 
probably this week. I'm saving 2 for a little coffee party with a few 
friends who enjoy my coffee very much.
I enjoyed comparing the two Koraties as well.
John
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22) From: Les
Gesha isn't for everyone!  Just as tasters differ, so do preferences.
I enjoyed one of the very nice 4 star Colombians this morning.  I said
to myself, "They don't get much better than this!"  A very true
statement for me.  However, as I have had the opportunity to
experience everything from an ultra finely nuanced JBM to the pallate
blast of Liberica, and many coffees in between, the Gesha is just one
coffee along the continuum.  This morning, I started thinking about
the question, "What do I really really like in a coffee?  It is going
to be an interesting subjective experience judging the DP and WP
Korate from Ethiopia.  I am beginning to think I favor the subtle
washed coffees over the DP for brewing and the DP for espresso.  There
is simply no way to keep up with Sweet Marias, so I am going to have
to refine my "filter" for ordering even more.  My stash is a bit out
of wack again!
Les
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:27 AM, MikeG  wrote:
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23) From: Seth Grandeau
Les, out-of-wack as in unbalanced or too big?  Mine's too big, but I'm
enjoying working it down.
On 9/22/08, Les  wrote:
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24) From: Robert Flanery
It is a terrible thing to have so many selections, and so little room and
time.
I drink some mighty stout cups of coffee around here.  I am going to have to
look into some decaf's for evening use.
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
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25) From: Les
I have an over abundance of Dry Processed coffees at the moment.  So
out-of-wack would be my answer.   I am enjoying them, but there are
some nice WPs coming on right now and I will have to wait and hope
they are still there when I lift the stash reduction mode.  I would
love to pickup the two Yemen offereings as well (more DP), but I have
a lot of Brazils and Ethiopians in the Stash right now.  Nice problem
to have!
Les
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
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26) From: Dave
I bought some of each of this year's Geshas. So far I've only roasted 1/2 lb
of lot 10. I was considering roasting some lot 3 today, but my
brother-in-law, who would enjoy it, wouldn't really appreciate it will be
visiting this weekend when it would be reaching its peak. I guess I'm
a little greedy. I think I'll try the lot 5, or maybe some more of the lot
10, or maybe a Brazil, or maybe some Colombian, or Mexican, or...Oh yeah the
Lot 10 may well have been the best coffee I've roasted to date, a year and a
half, at roughly 1 lb / week.
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Dave
Some days...
It's just not worth chewing through the leather straps
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27) From: dan
This is another beginner's question - is the Panama Gesha bean  
primarily  for brewed cups,
and/or is it a bean for expresso?
www.driver-dan.com
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28) From:
Primarily for brewed...but works well for me as an espresso. If you roast light, as in city-city plus, lotsa flowers and fruits in the cup.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

29) From: Mike Chester
The short answer is yes to all.  I primarily drink Americanos and find that 
the Gesha is excellent - unlike any other coffee.  As a SO shot, it also has 
unique characteristics.  I have not tried other methods, but others report 
good results other ways.  Good coffee transcends brewing methods.  It will 
be good whatever way you choose to brew it.  The preferred method of brewing 
is a matter of personal tastes.  IMO
Mike Chester

30) From: Sandy Andina
Short answer?  Whatever you want it to be. But I prefer to brew it as  
a French Press or Aeropress.
On Oct 26, 2008, at 1:15 PM, dan wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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31) From: miKe mcKoffee
Killer doppio, Americano, macchiato, cappuccino. If one granule of sugar or
one drop of chocolate or flavor syrup is added I will hunt you down and take
away every Gesha bean you possess... (I was going to say "and hurt you" but
figured taking all your Gesha would be worse:-)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>
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32) From: raymanowen
"..."
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 12:15 PM, dan  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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33) From: raymanowen
"...is the Panama Gesha bean primarily  for brewed cups, and/or is it a bean
for expresso?"
Exactly. Who's on second? I doubt that any bean or roast is brew- specific.
Except the stuff purveyed by *$. Did they surplus any of their Clovers?
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 12:15 PM, dan  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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34) From: Les
Mike,
Ditto your response, and I am willing to ride shotgun.
Les
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:09 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
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