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Topic: Question about espresso volume (23 msgs / 469 lines)
1) From: Frank Parth
So I'm in Italy this week attending meetings in the town of Viterbo, about 100 km north of Rome.
The espresso (which varies from very good to something I'd expect at McDonalds) is served in normal espresso-size cups, 
but is only about 1/4 inch deep. There isn't much there.
That got me to wondering.  If I pull a 25 second pull, how much volume should I expect? To fill up the cup, or just a 
little. Or is that the wrong question?
Frank Parth
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2) From:
for me...i pull the shot into a shot glass with oz markings. Using a double portafilter with about 18 grams, 25 seconds should get you about 2 ozs or 1.5 oz ristretto.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

3) From: Dave
Double portafilter 18g... So that's a double right?
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:26 AM,  wrote:
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Dave
Some days...
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4) From: raymanowen
I have seen, but I can't immediately cite the source, that 25 sec. brew time
should yield 2.5 oz of espresso drink. [10 sec for a 1 oz ristretto]
I don't call these numbers "facts," just raw numbers. No one drinks numbers.
When I've seen the reddish-gold crema rise to a good level in the glass cup,
time to stop and sip Liquid Gold.
By the numbers, MP: 21g Brazil Cerrado SDM Formosa, [FC 3rdOct08], brew time
4:20, grind set at 59 = 0.0358" burr separation. Gaak! Turned Bitter. Boy,
did I blow it. 12% too fine, 24% too long. Teriffic Aroma as it brewed, but
shouldn't a' drunk it all!
Cheers, Mabuhay and Magandang Umaga -RayO, aka Opa!
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5) From:
Yes...i use 2 blue SCAA scoops which overflows the PF a bit. Wipe away the excess and tamp. About 16 to 18 gms.
1-2 oz is very small. Since I like to sip and drink, I usually make another type of coffee for after the double shot. Like a FP etc.
I have been shocked and in quite a few arguments when I've ordered a double shot and get a ridiculous 6 oz cup filled. Like...."whats that!"
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

6) From:
I am at least part italian....give my regards to Roma. Enjoy your trip. Ciao.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

7) From: raymanowen
I couldn't get 18g into my double filter. Maybe with the 500 ton MTS press,
I could tamp it enough... Anyone for a 58mm pre-tamped espresso disc? 11,000
bar might get through it...
Cheers, Mabuhay and Magandang Umaga -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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8) From: miKe mcKoffee
You were most highly likely served traditional single shot espresso. A
single shot is ~30ml or 1oz. A double shot would be, hmmm let me think,
double that. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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9) From: Bob Hazen
Frank,
What's the going rate for a single espresso where you are?
Bob
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10) From: Alchemist John
IIRC a ristretto is still 22-30 seconds, not half the time.
Likewise, from your other post, I am surprised you can't get 18 g 
into your double.  I fear your scale is off or you are using a 
single.  Unless you are only using a 45 mm PF, but even so, those are 
usually deeper.  I can 'fit' 21 grams into a double PF, although I 
can't say I like the resulting brew.  I lean more toward 14-15 g.
Oh, and to answer the original question, I agree with MM.  You were 
probably served short single shots.  About 3/4 oz.
At 07:31 AM 10/5/2008, you wrote:
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John Nanci
AlChemist at large
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11) From: Mike Koenig
Frank,
In Italy, unless you specify a Doppio (double) you get a single shot
(7 g of coffee, ~1 oz. ).
--mike
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 4:00 AM, Frank Parth  wrote:
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12) From: Joseph Robertson
John,
I hope I don't start a huge debate/thread regarding *ristrettos, *
I know the discussions on a "proper" ristretto are endless and forever will
be.
Regarding regular shots pulled in a cafe in Italy. I wonder if a normal shot
pulled in most cafes in Italy are ristrettos. One reason I ask this is this,
I just got off the phone with my Faema E61 two group installer. When he
installed our machine a couple months ago I remember him telling me the
right group was programed to 3/4 ounce shots. So a double button would be
twice that and so on.
The left group was set up for the usual 1oz. shots that we expect here.
Any thoughts on this John or anyone?
JoeR
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Alchemist John wrote:
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13) From:
That is my understanding. A double ristretto is 1.5 oz. 14-18gms in 22-26 seconds.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

14) From: Bryan Wray
This is correct.  A ristretto should be adjusted via grind/maybe dose slighty, not time.
-Bry
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens of Cafe Grumpy in NYC.
--- On Tue, 10/7/08, decrisce.md  wrote:
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15) From: Alchemist John
Overall I think we are all in agreement here in general.  No debate needed.
At 10:42 PM 10/7/2008, you wrote:
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AlChemist at large
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16) From: Frank Parth
Bob,
I got home from Italy late last night. The going rate is 1.5 - 2 euros in the town of Viterbo. The quality doesn't 
seemto be related to the price.
Frank
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17) From: Bob Hazen
Seems pretty pricey for a single.  I bet it's good to be home and back into 
your homeroast, eh?
Bob

18) From: Leo Zick
Viterbo!!
did you walk through the town and see the ugly tower, san lorenzo i believe?
there was an awesome pizza place there, il labirinto
i think the town is too small to be 'known' for good coffee..
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Bob Hazen  wrote:
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19) From: Benjamin VerHage
I just got back from Italy (Venice, Pordenone, Trieste) and I paid .90 euro/shot everywhere...and I had a lot of espresso.
----- Original Message ----
From: Leo Zick 
To: homeroast
Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:55:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Question about espresso volume
Viterbo!!
did you walk through the town and see the ugly tower, san lorenzo i believe?
there was an awesome pizza place there, il labirinto
i think the town is too small to be 'known' for good coffee..
On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Bob Hazen  wrote:
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20) From: Frank Parth
Yes, it is. At least for a few days before my father and I leave for our annual salmon fishing trip to Oregon.
I won't bring any coffee on this trip. When I'm freezing my rear off sitting in a bouncing boat at 6:30 am any coffee 
tastes good so why waste the good stuff?
Frank
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21) From: Frank Parth
Hi, Leo,
We did have some time to go through the town after the conference was over. There are several ugly towers in town, but 
since they date back to the 1200's or so they all have historical significance. (Compare this to my home near Los 
Angeles, where anything over 50 years old has historical significance.)
We had good food everywhere except at the hotel where the conference was (Balletti Park Hotel). In order to keep costs 
down the conference organizers did not select a high quality menu. Many of us went out to eat at night in the small 
village the hotel was in, San Martino al Cimino, and had great food at even the smallest places.
The espresso at the hotel was usually alright. I bought espresso once in town, but several times in Rome where we 
stayed the last day of our trip in order to be close to the airport. Rome was where I paid the higher prices.
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22) From: Brian Kamnetz
I don't know, Frank, I think I'd take my chances with the good
stuff.... Been the other route too often.
Brian
On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Frank Parth  wrote:
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23) From: miKe mcKoffee
Ditto, Life's too short to drink bad coffee.
miKe 
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