HomeRoast Digest


Topic: My "Flavor Quality Analysis" spidergraphs (54 msgs / 1380 lines)
1) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
Hi All - was hoping to get some feedback... We are going to be 
redesigning some things in the near future, and I was wondering how 
frequently you use the charts I make associated with each review ... 
the "Flavor Quality Analysis". For me, it is a really important part 
of the review, but i have been told by some that since it involves 
another click of the mouse, and the way it appears, it is not that 
useful. I have been thinking that using a weighted text chart, i.e. 
like a "Tag Cloud" you see on some sites to indicate the popularity 
of a term, might be very effective. So if "Buttery Mouthfeel" was in 
large type and "Almond Oil" was small, you would see the overall 
importance of each in the overall impression of a coffee. That's one 
idea of each ...
So if I could get some feedback on if you use the chart ... or not.
In any case, we're going to find a way to incorporate it into the 
review better so its not hidden behind a click. I feel really 
strongly that descriptors are more important than numbers in finding 
the right coffee...
Tom
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
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2) From: Jim De Hoog
Tom,
I like the "Flavor Quality Analysis" chart.  I pick the coffes that I wan=
t to purchase using the chart. It would be nice if it could appear whne you=
 place the cursor over the chart tab.
 
Jim "Ice Bucket Roaster" De Hoog
----- Original Message ----
From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee 
To: homeroast list new 
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:04:39 PM
Subject: [Homeroast] My "Flavor Quality Analysis" spidergraphs
Hi All - was hoping to get some feedback... We are going to be =
redesigning some things in the near future, and I was wondering how =
frequently you use the charts I make associated with each review ... =
the "Flavor Quality Analysis". For me, it is a really important part =
of the review, but i have been told by some that since it involves =
another click of the mouse, and the way it appears, it is not that =
useful. I have been thinking that using a weighted text chart, i.e. =
like a "Tag Cloud" you see on some sites to indicate the popularity =
of a term, might be very effective. So if "Buttery Mouthfeel" was in =
large type and "Almond Oil" was small, you would see the overall =
importance of each in the overall impression of a coffee. That's one =
idea of each ...
So if I could get some feedback on if you use the chart ... or not.
In any case, we're going to find a way to incorporate it into the =
review better so its not hidden behind a click. I feel really =
strongly that descriptors are more important than numbers in finding =
the right coffee...
Tom
-- =
                  "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Ma=
ria
                     http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
    Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
            phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
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3) From: Kris McN
Hey Tom,
I usually glance at the flavor webs, but I really spend time reading your
descriptions to help me choose (and I almost never look at the numerical
score anymore).  For me, the graphical nature of the webs has never added
much to my understanding, particularly once I realized that the flavor
characteristics the spokes represent change for each coffee.  Now, if the
spokes on the webs were the same across coffees (representing major flavor
components, say), so that they could be compared between and among coffees,
giving a quick visual cue to differences and similarities between beans, I'd
definitely look at them more frequently.
I like the idea of the "tag cloud" with varying font sizes!
Best,
Kris McN
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4) From: Sandy Andina
I go by descriptors first and numerical rating second, but pay no  
attention to the current diagrams (they remind me too much of the  
pickup pattern charts for various microphones and as a musician I  
can't shake that analogy so I tune it out--no pun intended).
On Oct 28, 2008, at 2:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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5) From: NANNERNLP
Initially when I started comparing and looking at the coffees, I never 
clicked on the spider graph. I don't think it was laziness as much as I did not 
think it would help me pick out a coffee. Now, it is the first thing I click on.  
I think once you find the flavors that are important to you in a coffee, the 
spider graph can really help you find similar coffees to your taste, or branch 
out into other directions. It probably would be used more it there wasn't 
anything additional to click, but I will use it no matter what.
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6) From: Bruce Garley
I love the descriptions and roasting notes on the SM website. They are
eminently useful, and the best anywhere. But it can be laborious to find
specific flavor profiles. The spider charts could be a quick and dirty way
to search a lot of beans for particular attributes.  
I find the current spider charts difficult to use because the flavor
parameters change for every bean and therefore the chart must be expanded to
be see what they are in each case. If "Chocolate" was always 11 o'clock and
"citrus" was always 3 o'clock (for example) I could look at small graphics
and get a quick idea of flavor qualities for a given bean without expansion.
Further refinements would be handled in the notes like they are now (eg the
"Fruit" was apricot or peach).    
So I guess my suggestion is to standardize the flavor wheel.
I use the cup scoring all the time. And if something scores high, it is nice
to read about why it scored well in the notes.
I like the roast visual that "More Coffee" uses which brackets recommended
roasts on a continuous color gradient of beans. It is a fast way to impart
information that can always be further refined in the notes.
Your fan, Bruce
<Snip>
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7) From: Seth Grandeau
I agree with Bruce.  I've looked at the spider chart a few times, but the
fact that the attributes change from bean to bean makes that type of
presentation less useful.  I basically read your reviews of each new coffee
and take note of the numeric scores.
On 10/28/08, Bruce Garley  wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: MikeG
I don't look at the chart.  I'd much prefer something along the lines
of an audio equalizer display
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
 wrote:
<Snip>
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9) From: Dave Bush
I tend to read the descriptions more than the Flavor Quality Analysis mostly out of habit, although I'm sure I'm missing information in the charts. While I enjoy reading through all the interesting descriptions (Great job, Tom!) to select a new order, it usually takes me at least a couple of hours to settle on my 20 pounds. What I would find very useful is a way to sort through all the coffee descriptions based on several consistent search parameters included in each review to help narrow my choices. Then I could just spend my time on the selections that met basic criteria. For example, I read through every description to see if it's a good candidate for SO Espresso. If that was a search parameter I could save a lot of time. Other examples might be:  Organic, Farm Gate, Free Trade, Dark Roast, Decaf, Wet, Dry, Peaberry, COE, Fruity, Chocolaty, Bright, Full Bodied, etc. I don't know if anyone else would be interested in this or how difficult it would be to incorporate it into 
 the descriptions and add a search capability, but I know I'd use it a lot.
Thanks!
Dave
On Tuesday, October 28, 2008, at 02:04PM, "Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee"  wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Sheila Quinn
Hey, I like that idea! I don't pay any attention to the spidergraphs 
either. I look through the description to see if I think it's a coffee I 
would like, based on the flavors described there.
MikeG wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: Avalon
      I check the chart first and then if I am interested I will read the
entire review.
Thanks,   Mark
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
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12) From:
I look mainly at your descriptions. If I am still not clear if it is what I am looking for...then I will hit the diagram.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone.

13) From: sci
The spidergraph is cool, unique actually, so I'd like to see it stay if
possible, even if you do put something like a tag cloud on the main review
page. The spidie is something else that makes SM reviews outshine others.
May I also suggest, encourage, plead for a Google Earth map of the coffee
origin? Please :-)  I'm a map geek who can spend hours entertaining myself
cruising around the earth in Google Earth. This is free (I know it takes
labor to add to the page), and it would help us all get an idea of where
exactly our coffee comes from. It may just be frosting on the cake, but it
is coffee education, and I think ya'll do that well.
Ivan
Coffee Animal
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:04:39 -0700
From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee 
Subject: [Homeroast] My "Flavor Quality Analysis" spidergraphs
To: homeroast list new 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Hi All - was hoping to get some feedback... We are going to be
redesigning some things in the near future, and I was wondering how
frequently you use the charts I make associated with each review ...
the "Flavor Quality Analysis". For me, it is a really important part
of the review, but i have been told by some that since it involves
another click of the mouse, and the way it appears, it is not that
useful. I have been thinking that using a weighted text chart, i.e.
like a "Tag Cloud" you see on some sites to indicate the popularity
of a term, might be very effective. So if "Buttery Mouthfeel" was in
large type and "Almond Oil" was small, you would see the overall
importance of each in the overall impression of a coffee. That's one
idea of each ...
So if I could get some feedback on if you use the chart ... or not.
In any case, we're going to find a way to incorporate it into the
review better so its not hidden behind a click. I feel really
strongly that descriptors are more important than numbers in finding
the right coffee...
Tom
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14) From: Rick Copple
I rarely look at the graphic. I think mainly for the same reasons others 
have said, the spokes aren't consistent from coffee to coffee, and since 
I read the descriptions to determine what flavors it is and whether I 
might like it or not, there isn't much point in looking at the graphic.
One suggestion to the descriptions, I've noticed you usually have about 
4 or 5 main sections to them. First the country and farm info that is 
usually quite interesting, and how they are grown, another to describe 
the smells from the dry and then the wet grounds. Another in what it 
taste like at various roast levels, and sometimes if it is good for 
espresso. What if you blocked those into divided paragraphs with a bold 
heading, like:
Farm/Region Info:
Aromas:
Flavors:
Espresso:
Just a thought. The only reason I suggest that is sometimes I have time 
to read through them, and other times I'm just searching for what the 
coffee taste like, and it would be helpful to have those labeled and 
easier to find among the excellent descriptions.
But the graphic would mainly be useful to me if I could glance at it and 
tell without expanding what the main flavors are that dominate. Over 
time, I would know that a certain configuration meant it was a coffee I 
should take a closer look at. So I guess to do that, you would have to 
narrow the flavors into a small, broader group so you would have the 
same flavors on the same spot at the wheel.
Whatever the case, thanks for the great coffee and the descriptions.
-- 
Rick Copplehttp://www.rlcopple.com/Homeroast mailing list
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15) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
That's really what we are working on Dave, but it is going to take 
time. The reviews will be searchable, and you would be able to 
organize and find them according to a host of parameters as you 
mention. The "FQA" charts are really important, but the spidergraph 
form isn't appropriate, and doesnt do what people expect ... like 
everyone says, to do that it would have to rate consistent factors on 
each axis. But all coffees don't conform to those consistent scoring 
categories, so the use of that is a bit limited too, except in the 
basics of acidity, body etc. The FQA attempts to describe the 
qualities of the coffee and their intensity and those change for 
every coffee. So it makes sense to display that as a bar chart, or as 
a "cloud" of text descriptors where more significant ones are in 
bigger fonts. What we might be able to do is have the way the graphs 
are shown be user-determined too. It's just a balancing act between 
presenting really good information and presenting too much, or in a 
way that isn't informative (as some critics of the current FQA would 
say). The other factor is searchability, and by moving all the 
reviews to a database, that will be possible. It will also have all 
the archived reviews you can see how it compares to past years, or to 
a different coffee we had that we are out of. Plus, the database will 
allow for full glossary of terms and like a wiki, you can get a 
definition in a popup for those entries right from the review. So 
that's the general idea, but it will be largely the same page as you 
see it in your browser (well, maybe a bit improved in design). No 
dancing graphics, no unwanted popups or mouse-overs, etc. But it will 
have these functionalities so ideally you can actually find the stuff 
that I we put so much work into putting up there on the site, and it 
won't take 2 hours to find it either! Anyway, it's a work in 
progress. The comments on this are great, incredibly useful! Expect 
more questions like this ... we need the input as we move along on it 
(slowly).
Tom
<Snip>
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
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16) From: Paul Helbert
I agree with Rick. The farm having been in the family five generations could
be in a section separate from the flavors. It is interesting but not likely
to influence my buying decision much if at all. The roast recommendation is
already in a separate section. I like that.
And yes, I also find the changing spokes on the spider web charts to be a
bit off-putting.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Rick Copple  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Paul Helbert, wv3j
Shenandoah Valley, VA
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17) From: kevin creason
I like the world map link idea... but can understand if that is too much
work.
I wonder if the graphs could become a little more uniform.
I now see that mouth feel is on the "west" side, aroma on the north, and
flavor is south... so maybe that will be enough if I work a little harder to
understand.
But, if there is room for improvement, perhaps it could be narrowed down to
three or four common flavors, aromas, mouth feel, or fragrances-- if the
plot points don't have to fit directly on a spline of the wheel in your
graphing tool.
The plotted point wouldn't have to fit directly on the chocolate fragrance
spline if for instance if the Ethiopia Kembata DP, unlike the Java Kajumas
Curah Tatal, doesn't have a chocolate fragrance, but it was more like
chocolate fragrance than leather fragrance.
This way we could see froma 30,000 foot view (pre-click) if there was
chocolate or not.
I don't know... just brain storming.
On 10/28/08, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
-Kevin
/* Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you
with experience. */
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18) From: miKe mcKoffee
I believe an example of what Tom's talking about is used by Square Mile
Coffee Roasters, I like it.
Example see:http://shop.squaremilecoffee.com/products/autumn-espressoBefore the List Police get me for posting a "competitors" commercial site,
I'm fairly certain Tom won't mind posting the link since they're based in
London, UK...
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>
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19) From: Dave Bush
Sounds like you have it under control, Tom. A database would  
definitely be the way to go. If you haven't chosen a database app,  
yet, consider Filemaker. I think it's still considered the easiest to  
use. Anyway, good luck. I look forward to the improvements. In the  
meantime, 20 pounds is on the way.
Dave
On Oct 28, 2008, at 8:43 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>
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20) From: Bob Hazen
Tom,
I don't use the spidergraphs.  I confess, though, that I haven't really 
explored them.  Perhaps there's value there that I'm simply unaware of. 
Your reviews are superb and that's how I make my choices.  In addition to 
the superior beans, your reviews distinguish you from the other suppliers. 
Please don't de-emphasize the write-ups.
Bob
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21) From: Jim Gundlach
Ah, the desire to standardize the infinitely variable5.88888    The reality is that coffees provide very complex  
sensory experiences that an experienced taster likeTom can detect.   
The star chart, a statistical technique invented by Florence  
Nightingale, allows Tom to communicate much of that experience.  I  
like to go back to the star chart when I am drinking a coffee and see  
if I can identify what Tom reports.
       pecan jim and one of three lap kittens.
On Oct 28, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Seth Grandeau wrote:
<Snip>
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22) From: Rich
The "star chart" -like/dislike or don't use- just might be the 
difference between the linear thinkers and the circular thinkers.  One 
likes words and the other likes graphs.  I find the little chart quite 
useful.
Jim Gundlach wrote:
<Snip>
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23) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<Snip>
Yes, that's definitely one way to do it! It takes James to think of 
something like that (well, and beat me too it ... but "tag clouds" 
are used all over). My issue with that is ... isn't that a rather 
optimistically long set of descriptors for one coffee??? wooowww....
Thanks Mike.
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
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24) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<Snip>
I like the Star Chart idea - we could start have astrological signs 
for coffee! Let's see, if Lake Tawar is the Big Dipper and IMV is the 
Hunter, what would that make India Anohki Liberica ...
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
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25) From: John Ferguson
<Snip>
(OK, I actually really like the Liberica)
Regards
John
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26) From: David Martin
I must admit I never paid any attention to the flavor charts, until
they were mentioned in the recent thread about cupping scores. I knew
they existed, but never really used them. I think the fact that they
are "hidden" behind a click is largely responsible for this. Also I
agree with those who don't find that style of chart particularly
useful or intuitive. I like the Tag Cloud idea.
-Dave
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
 wrote:
<Snip>
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27) From: raymanowen
...and the Black Hole of the Coffee Universe recently closed 600 of its low
number sites. -ro
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 1:42 AM, David Martin wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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28) From: Frank Parth
I like the spider charts myself, but I would like to see consistency in them. Since I often look through a number of 
coffees before I make a selection the quicker I can gather information the better. Consistency would help.
I don't like the idea of a tag cloud. I'd prefer single sized text. But that's just me.
Frank Parth
Who's currently in Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia, where the coffee is mostly very poor.
<Snip>
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29) From: Ben Lowery
On Oct 28, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>
I really like the spidercharts, I just think they're a bit of a pain  
to get into. Maybe using something in page instead of a popup [1]  
would make them easier to dig into?
--b
[1]http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox/Homeroast mailing list
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30) From: Royalcoffeedubai Fzco
Hi, Frank
If you want good coffee in Saudi, let me know I can provide you with a good=
 source
Salamah H Salamah
Royal Coffee Dubai
From: Frank Parth 
To: homeroast
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:32:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] My "Flavor Quality Analysis" spidergraphs
I like the spider charts myself, but I would like to see consistency in the=
m. Since I often look through a number of =
coffees before I make a selection the quicker I can gather information the =
better. Consistency would help.
I don't like the idea of a tag cloud. I'd prefer single sized text. But tha=
t's just me.
Frank Parth
Who's currently in Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia, where the coffee is mostly very=
 poor.
<Snip>
ning some things in the near future, and I was =
<Snip>
eview ... the "Flavor Quality Analysis". For =
<Snip>
some that since it involvesanotherclick of =
<Snip>
nking that using a weighted text chart, i.e. =
<Snip>
term, might be veryeffective. So if "Buttery =
<Snip>
e overall importance of each in the overall =
<Snip>
ew better so its not hidden behind a click. I =
<Snip>
inding the right coffee...
<Snip>
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
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31) From: Marc
Tom,
I always check the chart and use it in combination with the description - I
do look at the numbers but I mainly use them to narrow my selections when I
have too many coffees on my wish list.
-Marc
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32) From: Ira
At 10:38 PM 10/28/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
I'd tend to say that's equally as hard to read as the spider 
chart.  Looks more like art than something meaningful.  I'd think 
that if the thing was really useful I should be able to look at a 
page of just charts and "quickly" make a reasonable guess about which 
coffee I'd be most interested in drinking.
Ira
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33) From: Ira
At 07:26 PM 10/28/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
Not to rain on your parade, but if you've ever done real database 
stuff you'd realize that simple is not always a good thing. My wife 
uses Filemaker for her job and occasionally asks for help and the 
things you can't do with that product so out weigh the things you 
can, I'd never recommend it. Maybe the database is OK, but the script 
language you use to access it is useless.  IMHO anyway.
Ira
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34) From: Edward Bourgeois
I check and like the spider graph but am more interested in the
flavors and aftertaste than the aroma and fragrance. I would like more
info in suitability for espresso blending other than just the
potential as a SO which I take as the clue now. I will go by the
brightness and body numbers and the degree that sweetness is expressed
in the writeup.
Ed
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Ira  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list">http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/ Co-President- Ma. Agriculture in the Classroomhttp://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list
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35) From: Angelo
I would agree with whomever said they would vote for color-coded bar 
charts, like those used on some EQ meters... They are easy to read 
and remember..
Angelo
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36) From: Karl Schendel
<Snip>
I have to admit not using them much, partly because the verbal descriptions seem to cover most of it, and partly because I'm not convinced that the spider graph is telling me a lot that's relevant to my experiences with the same coffees.
Having said that, they have been useful once or twice when it's a tie between a couple different beans and I'm not sure which I want to order.  (and we have to drink it all ourselves, boo hoo, no suitable workplace crowd to dump excess off on.  So I avoid over-ordering if I can.)
I pretty much ignore the numeric scores completely.
Karl
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37) From: Gary Frost
I really appreciate the 'spider graph' flavor charts and use them at
least as much as the descriptions. To me they make alot of sense and
show the progression from dry aroma through finish (in clockwise
around the chart) The intensity of flavors, and specific flavor notes.
 I find them to be generally spot on and the only confusion I have
with them is in regard to what roast degree they refer to. (usually
can figure than out) I think they are unique and show that you put
some thought into the design. However you represent this info, I
appreciate that it is included and definitely take the time to
evaluate even if it does require an extra mouse click.
I'm definitely for keeping this in the bean reviews.
Best Regards,
Gary Frost
On 10/28/08, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
 wrote:
<Snip>
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38) From: Steven Schreck
Since I've never been allowed to reply to any posts in the list you'll never
know.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
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39) From: Frank Parth
Hello. Salamah,
I'm told there's one good coffee shop here in Al Khobar, fortunately within walking distance of the Le Meridien hotel 
where I'm staying. There are *bucks here and I met someone at one for coffee and some discussion. That's the first 
*bucks I've been at since I started home roasting.
On Saturday I'll be in Sharjah for two weeks and then in Dubai for another two weeks. I'd be more interested in good 
coffee places there. It would be great if you could give me some advice.
Frank
Who mailed in his election ballot two weeks ago and is happily out of the line of fire of all the campaign ads.
<Snip>
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40) From: David Martin
Now that I've started looking at the spider charts more closely, I'm
starting to really like them. I think the biggest problem is simply
the need to click on the thumbnail to see the larger image in a popup.
Making it possible to see that image without going through the extra
effort would make it more usable.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
 wrote:
<Snip>
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41) From: Royalcoffeedubai Fzco
Hi, Frank
You are most welcome to visit us when you come to Sharjah or Dubai
I can send you a free Coffee sampels through our partner in Saudi. Just giv=
e me your mobile no. or address.
it is a Swiss Coffee called Marchetti  please visit www.globalcoffeeconne=
ction.com
However our contact address in Dubai is as follows:
Our Location Address =
Royal Coffee  =
International City - Dubai =
Behind Dragon Mart =
China Cluster - China C 13 Building  =
Ground Floor-Back Side =
Ras Al Khor Street-Hatta Highway  =
Mobile 050 103 5966 =
Phone 971 4 422 6494 =
Fax     971 4 422 6495 =
Dubai - UAE =
royalcoffeedubai =
www.royalcoffeedubai.com =
From: Frank Parth 
To: homeroast
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 8:41:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] My "Flavor Quality Analysis" spidergraphs
Hello. Salamah,
I'm told there's one good coffee shop here in Al Khobar, fortunately within=
 walking distance of the Le Meridien hotel =
where I'm staying. There are *bucks here and I met someone at one for coffe=
e and some discussion. That's the first =
*bucks I've been at since I started home roasting.
On Saturday I'll be in Sharjah for two weeks and then in Dubai for another =
two weeks. I'd be more interested in good =
coffee places there. It would be great if you could give me some advice.
Frank
Who mailed in his election ballot two weeks ago and is happily out of the l=
ine of fire of all the campaign ads.
<Snip>
 good source
<Snip>
n them. Since I often look through a number of
<Snip>
 the better. Consistency would help.
<Snip>
t that's just me.
<Snip>
 very poor.
<Snip>
gning some things in the near future, and I was
<Snip>
ch review ... the "Flavor Quality Analysis". For
<Snip>
 by some that since it involvesanotherclick of
<Snip>
 thinking that using a weighted text chart, i.e.
<Snip>
f a term, might be veryeffective. Soif "Buttery
<Snip>
e the overall importance of each in the overall
<Snip>
iew better so its not hidden behind a click. I
<Snip>
in finding the right coffee...
<Snip>
offee.com
<Snip>
offee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
<Snip>
offee..com
<Snip>
offee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
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      =
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42) From: Alchemist John
First off, I have to say up to this point, I never really "got" the 
spidergraphs.  The never seem to convey that different of a message 
to me.  Then I discovered that they are a form of the Dementia test 
the MM put up.  I have been looking at them off and on for months now 
thinking "damn, the thumbnail just makes them all look so alike" and 
then move on.  Now I find out it is NOT an individual thumbnail but a 
static one.  Oy, no wonder they looked "a lot a like".
OK, that said, I really want to like spidergraphs, but they never do 
for me what I think a good graphical representation should 
do.  Namely, convey information better or more intuitively than 
another method of presentation.  And they just don't.  Not that you 
(Tom) aren't doing them right, I just don't get anything out of them 
when I look at them.  I have to look, read, study, etc, and by that 
point, they defeat their own point.
The font size, color, placement might be interesting and workable.
At 12:04 PM 10/28/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Hand Grinding, Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/Homeroast mailing list
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43) From: Kris McN
Steve,
Apparently, your one opportunity wasted.  Bummer.
Kris McN
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Steven Schreck wrote:
<Snip>
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44) From: Jeff Cozad
While I'll admit to not using them a lot, I do look at them. What I would
find useful, was a way to either overlay one with another or to see several
side by side. That does require that the various cup characteristics be
presented in the same orientation.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Jeff C
Bettendorf - Formerly Iowa's Most Exciting City
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45) From: Steve Barber
Spider Graph...Spider Graph....does whatever a Spider Graph does. But
seriously folks I most often use Tom's descriptions.
Steve
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Kris McN  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Rev. J. Stephen Barber
Vicar
Trinity Episcopal Church
PO Box 126
St. James, MO 65559
573-265-7667
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46) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
I think we will be changing them to a bar graph, which communcates 
exactly what it should ... and it can be seem right alongside the 
review. It's really an important extention of the review. In terms of 
being able to compare a chart with standard mesurements along 
standard axis, it would make more sense to do this with the scoring 
data, dry frag., wet aroma, acidity, flavor etc etc. So maybe we can 
do that. We are going to break description out into the background 
info, and the cup description. It might appear fairly seamless, but 
from a database approach it will help with searches.
<Snip>
Huh? Who's stopping you? Please do reply if you have something to add!
Tom
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
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47) From: Leo Zick
its amazing. its my main source of information. roast profile tastes are too
subjective, and while i dont know which roasts this is based on, it doesnt
indicate so i assume it to be open ended, which i like :)
my only complaint is that when i try to use it to choose beans, its slightly
harder, b/c there isnt a baseline, or the same profiles to compare against,
so it makes things a little more complicated.  though, i do understand all
beans are different, so i dont mind.
honestly, when you sell beans and dont have this graph, i dont even look at
them for purchase.
i wouldnt focus on bold, not bold, smaller or bigger, its perfect.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
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48) From: Leo Zick
you prefer a word jumble over a spider graph?
must be the engineer in me..
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:21 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
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49) From: MikeG
Could be that the various answers to this question reflects a larger
sense of the respondent's perceptual capability?
I, for instance, never even glimpse at the graph and haven't taken any
time to try to understand how it works. I also had a terribly
difficult time in base college algebra.   Entry level college
statistics were nearly the death of me.  My cranium would explode if I
were to attempt a sudoku puzzle.
But as a crossword puzzle addict I do love words and am very drawn to
Tom's written descriptions. Only once have I disliked a bean that I
ordered based on Tom's descriptive text.
Several times I have ordered 20 lbs as a first order of a given bean
because his description so thoroughly clicked with what I was looking
for in a given bean.
I've no doubt that some folks like a graph better and some are more
drawn to the written word.  I'd be more likely to peruse a bar graph,
but it's Tom's descriptions that will always be the draw for me.
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
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50) From: Paul Bloch
Hello
As I roast (almost) exclusively to make espresso... first, I find that the descriptors don't usually work to describe the espresso, and secondly, I have now been roasting my coffees more deeply than I used to (and have found that I enjoy many coffees more when roasted that way).  And I know that roasting well into second crack affects the flavor profile.  So I don't pay that much attention to the coffee reviews per se.  BUT, if there is a comment about what kind of a good SO espresso this bean makes, or what it the flavors are like with espresso I pay very close attention.
Paul
<Snip>
Hi All - was hoping to get some feedback... We are going to be 
redesigning some things in the near future, and I was wondering how 
frequently you use the charts I make associated with each review ... 
the "Flavor Quality Analysis". For me, it is a really important part 
of the review, but i have been told by some that since it involves 
another click of the mouse, and the way it appears, it is not that 
useful. I have been thinking that using a weighted text chart, i.e. 
like a "Tag Cloud" you see on some sites to indicate the popularity 
of a term, might be very effective. So if "Buttery Mouthfeel" was in 
large type and "Almond Oil" was small, you would see the overall 
importance of each in the overall impression of a coffee. That's one 
idea of each ...
So if I could get some feedback on if you use the chart ... or not.
In any case, we're going to find a way to incorporate it into the 
review better so its not hidden behind a click. I feel really 
strongly that descriptors are more important than numbers in finding 
the right coffee...
Tom
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com
                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
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51) From: Paul LaGorce
Hi Tom,
As to your spider charts, I'll suggest something.  I've only roasted a few
pounds so I'm a novice.  I like the spider charts but its difficult for me
to make comparisons.  Perhaps you could set things so that you could overlay
one chart on another so that you could see several charts superimposed on
each other. Chart one could be solid lines, chart two dashed lines, chart
three could be dots, etc.  Color would achieve a similar effect but about
one out of seven of us are not good with colors.  Anyway, superimposed upon
each other, they would work better for me.  Also, if I already like a
coffee, I can superimpose other coffees over the coffee I like and thereby
find the closest match.
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:04 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
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52) From: an iconoclast
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:38 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
I am a word girl myself. I look for key words in your descriptions, first in
the "New Coffee Announcements" and then I read every word of each individual
coffee entry. I'm partial to nutty, caramel, chocolate, malty etc, but love
blending, so look for particular fruits, too. Since the spidergraphs have
the same words as the text descriptions, I prefer to have different fonts to
describe more intense flavors, rather than the graphs. It would be nice to
search for particular characteristics, but I really enjoy reading every word
of every description for every bean!  I love details and it's one of the
reasons I buy from Sweet Maria's.
I've been working 6-7 days a week since spring, so haven't visited the list
or Sweet Maria's much, but am down to 70 lbs of caffeinated beans and 20 lbs
of decaf and need to stock up. Our hospital went up on electronic medical
records 10/12 and I've been building ordersets, training docs and supporting
nurses and docs during Go Live. I've been working 12-14 hour days, so
treated the oncology and surgical staff where I hung my hat to Sweet Maria's
beans. They were mightily impressed.  I even met a fellow homeroaster who
works in the IT department! I have 8 days off and am ready to talk coffee.
Take care and thanks for all your work, Tom and Maria.
Ann
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53) From: Brian Kamnetz
It's great to have you back on the list, Ann. Enjoy your 8 days off.
Must seem like heaven after working all those long days.
Do you still use your Krups Moka Brew?
Brian
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 12:44 AM, an iconoclast  wrote:
<Snip>
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54) From: Allon Stern
Here's another way to represent flavors on a wheel..don't like this a  
whole lot, though:http://tashian.com/wine-flavors/Kinda reminds me of a smith chart.
It would be interesting to lock in several flavor characteristics and  
work backwards to find which coffees have those; either an AND or and  
OR relation ship, or exclusion of certain characteristics.
That's it - all the data has to go in a database, and we'll have a  
SQL query interface :)
Actually, a real database to hold the information has a lot of merit,  
and I'd be surprised if Tom didn't already have one; the data  
representation can then be massaged however the user wants, with  
minimal additional work, once the mapping is figured out.
-
allon
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