HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Defective Behmor Drum? (16 msgs / 345 lines)
1) From: Malcolm Staudinger
Just received my brand-new Behmor, and after loading a coffee that is of 
fairly average size, I still had beans falling through. Upon inspection, 
I found this:http://flickr.com/photos/vertigoacid/2984323833/I'm assuming this is not normal?
Malcolm
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2) From: Rich
Ring up the customer support.  That is not right.
Malcolm Staudinger wrote:
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3) From: Lindsay Murphy
Yup, that looks familiar.  My large-grid drum had a similar problem,
which I remedied by switching to the small-grid drum.  (Of course, that
didn't turn out so well either, as I mentioned previously.)
Also, has Behmor changed their customer service model lately?  Everyone
on-list here has raved about their service, but I last talked to someone
over a week ago (it's been two weeks and change since I initiated the
service request) and still no word on what they're going to do about my
broken drum.  Frankly, I expected better.
--
Lindsay Murphy
murphyl
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 19:14 -0500, Rich wrote:
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4) From: Malcolm Staudinger
SM customer service as always was steller, and they're sending me out a 
new one and paying for shipping back on this defective one
Malcolm
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5) From: Edward Bourgeois
China quality control :-(  I remember reading how much Joe had tried
to have the roaster made elsewhere. Started in US(ya right, us make
something) ended up in China. Great price with shortcomings.
New = never ever worked.
farm
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
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6) From: Alchemist John
I guess I am going to jump to Joe's (and China's) defense.  This kind 
of generality really rubs me the wrong way, so much so because it is 
so untrue and just stereotyping.  I just don't think it fair to paint 
an entire society with such a broad brush given the US manufacturers 
often have their own crosses to bear.   No one  and nothing is perfect.
 From conversations with Joe Behm, I have learned a few things that 
might be of interest.
Do you happen to know that 100% of the units that he has built are 
tested through one complete roast and cooling cycle and pulled off 
the line if they do not pass?  How about that every single electrical 
component is tested before it is put into the Behmor?  And of course 
removed if they don't work?   And you have the gall to say China 
doesn't have QC? with 100% redundant testing?  Maybe where a business 
like Mr. Coffee is concerned, but certainly not Behmor.
Sure, a few drums have had problems.  The are not electrical, so not 
easily "testable", but each is inspected.  But how many?  I think I 
have heard of 4.  Four out of how many roaster?  2-3000?  From Joe, 
the official count is about 0.5%.  Good lord, there are companies 
that would kill for that low of a failure rate.  And here you say it 
has 'shortcomings' because of one bent wire that could be bent back 
and because it is from China.  Good grief.
end rant.
At 03:29 PM 10/30/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
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7) From: Rich
I would agree with Alchemist John on this issue.
Alchemist John wrote:
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8) From: RZettle
In any kind of manufacturing process there are going to be some defective  
products that slip through the quality control systems that are in place...the  
important thing is how the manufacturer handles these problems when they  
arise.
I had a motor issue with my Behmor that was handled quickly with no "song  
and dance" from the Behmor people...that is what is really important.
 
Russ
 
In a message dated 10/31/2008 11:20:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
rich-mail writes:
I would  agree with Alchemist John on this issue.
Alchemist John wrote:
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9) From: John and Emma
John I'm glad you spoke up.
It's true that most of the manufacturing in the US is outsourced but what
about the quality of products that are made here? Are they that much better?
The first company that comes to mind without thinking is Chrysler.
Did you know that when Toyota started manufacturing cars here they believed
our QC was not up to their standards? Every car that was manufactured for
the first six months was scrapped until the plant got it right. Toyota did
not care about whether the car off the line was perfect or not in those
first six months. They wanted 100% perfection on all cars before the plant
was allowed to ship its first car for sale. I don't own a Toyota and this is
not to promote them but just to say that whether something is manufactured
here or anywhere else has more to do with the company behind the name than
where the item is manufactured.
John H.

10) From: Seth Grandeau
Going back a few years, Japan had a reputation for making inexpensive, lower
quality, items.  And they worked hard to get out of that niche and that
reputation.  Korea had the same thing and they're clawing their way out
now.  China now has that reputation and it will take time and effort to
change it.
On 10/31/08, John and Emma  wrote:
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11) From: Bruce Garley
Good point. 
Bruce Garley
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12) From: Angelo
 From what I've seen of products (saxophones and guitars), the 
Chinese and Koreans will make you anything you want if you'll pay for 
it. You can buy $69 brand-new saxes, that will probably fall apart 
after a couple of tunes, but you can also get saxes that compete with 
the giants of the industry. It won't be for $69, though. Same with 
guitars. Sandy could probably chime in on that one...
At 10:57 AM 10/31/2008, you wrote:
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13) From: Sandy Andina
Blueridge acoustic guitars are made in China--they are loaded with  
abalone inlays and you can get an all-solid wood (back, sides, top)  
one for under $600. They weigh a ton and have a few glue blobs here  
and there, but they sound great and play well.  Most affordable sound  
reinforcement stuff these days is also Chinese-made:  my Behringer  
powered PA head is 3 years old and works beautifully.  Even my iPod  
Touch is made in China. There is a lot of junk coming out of there,  
but most of what you buy here today has some Chinese connection.  I  
would be more concerned with the working conditions (having visited a  
couple of factories a while back where I saw some very young girls  
weaving rugs) than with quality control.
On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:07 PM, Angelo wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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14) From: Alchemist John
That is a good point, and IMO Joe is doing his part to make this 
happen.  I doesn't help when people just assume the Behmor is 
inferior to other product just because of where it is made and not 
from concrete failure rates.
At 08:42 AM 10/31/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
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15) From: Edward Bourgeois
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Alchemist John
 wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
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16) From: raymanowen
"...our QC was not up to their [Japanese] standards?"
It is not. W. Edwards Deming taught that Quality cannot be inspected into a
product, and had mathematical models in support of his theory.
The post WWII Japanese manufacturers were all ears. Not so, with the US
industries. We kept building Land Barges, and Friday or Monday production is
a future warranty problem. Who do you think pays for warranty repairs?
Instead, we have Six Sigma, ISO 9002 or whatever is current to evade
responsibility for the manufacturing confusion with Waste Management.
Engineers like design redundancy. A fully loaded aircraft can lose an engine
on takeoff, and still have enough power to go around and land safely. My
brother was an American DC-10 Captain at Ohare back in the day. Bill, the TO
-1 junkie, said "Something else had to go rong," when the engine came off
the DC-10 wing.
The Tyranny of Numbers can catch up. Even in the front seat, "You're just a
passenger," beyond a certain point, and "This is gonna hurt..."
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
"Flying is the Safest Way to Fly" - - Shelley Berman
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