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Topic: Sealing vs Unsealing (12 msgs / 432 lines)
1) From: Cory Creighton
Dear All,
Happy Holidays!  I have recently been experimenting with sealing my beans
right after they're cooled and not sealing them for 24 hours.  I have found
a few subtle differences in taste from the two, sealed seams a little more
pungent from the get-go.  For the most part I think you get the
characteristics from the bean with either type as the coffee cools while
drinking, I think.
So, my question.....Obliviously there is much more Co2 being released from
the unsealed beans vs. the sealed beans but ultimately, after you grind
before brewing, is all Co2 released from the bean?
Go Bears and Roast On!
Cory
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2) From: Skydragon454
u opened a can of coffee worms on this one..lol
 
In a message dated 12/29/2008 2:36:14 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
corycreighton writes:
Dear  All,
Happy Holidays!  I have recently been experimenting with  sealing my beans
right after they're cooled and not sealing them for 24  hours.  I have found
a few subtle differences in taste from the two,  sealed seams a little more
pungent from the get-go.  For the most part  I think you get the
characteristics from the bean with either type as the  coffee cools while
drinking, I think.
So, my  question.....Obliviously there is much more Co2 being released from
the  unsealed beans vs. the sealed beans but ultimately, after you grind
before  brewing, is all Co2 released from the bean?
Go Bears and Roast  On!
Cory
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3) From: Joseph Robertson
Cory,
I have not read any "scientific papers" or studies on this but from my
experience and reading this list I tend to believe it is. Between the
grinding and brewing, especially using the AP, all that foaming you
see on top... I think that is co2 gassing off the top of the brew. I
can't afford that instrument to test it after Xmas expense's and all.
:) It would be fun to run some tests though.
RayO? any thoughts on this?
JoeR
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Cory Creighton
 wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: Joseph Robertson
My short answer....Cory is yes.
JoeR
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Joseph Robertson  wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Benjamin VerHage
I always assumed that's what it is. The fresher the roast, the more foaming/blooming/expansion/bubbles I usually see, especially in pour-over brewing. I visualize the CO2 being dispersed throughout the bean, and even when ground, there is still room for the gas to be trapped in the grind. Unless you pulverize the bean to atomic levels, there will be space for the gas to hide.
(The above is just an educated guess)
From: Joseph Robertson 
To: homeroast
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:44:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Sealing vs Unsealing
Cory,
I have not read any "scientific papers" or studies on this but from my
experience and reading this list I tend to believe it is. Between the
grinding and brewing, especially using the AP, all that foaming you
see on top... I think that is co2 gassing off the top of the brew. I
can't afford that instrument to test it after Xmas expense's and all.
:) It would be fun to run some tests though.
RayO? any thoughts on this?
JoeR
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Cory Creighton
 wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
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6) From: Skydragon454
Hmmm...atomic coffee.
 
In a message dated 12/29/2008 9:34:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
benjaminverhage writes:
I always  assumed that's what it is. The fresher the roast, the more  
foaming/blooming/expansion/bubbles I usually see, especially in pour-over  brewing. I 
visualize the CO2 being dispersed throughout the bean, and even  when ground, 
there is still room for the gas to be trapped in the grind.  Unless you 
pulverize the bean to atomic levels, there will be space for the  gas to hide.
(The above is just an educated  guess)
From: Joseph  Robertson 
To:  homeroast
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008  6:44:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Sealing vs Unsealing
Cory,
I  have not read any "scientific papers" or studies on this but from  my
experience and reading this list I tend to believe it is. Between  the
grinding and brewing, especially using the AP, all that foaming  you
see on top... I think that is co2 gassing off the top of the brew.  I
can't afford that instrument to test it after Xmas expense's and  all.
:) It would be fun to run some tests though.
RayO? any thoughts on  this?
JoeR
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Cory  Creighton
 wrote:
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7) From: miKe mcKoffee
Indeed the fresher the coffee the greater the bloom, i.e. CO2 release. Press
pot is particularly susceptible making consistent brewing impossible (grinds
to water ratio) if initially filling completely. The way to deal with it is
fill the Press Pot half way, let it sit a minute and a half or so, swirl the
grinds/water which knocks down the bloom to zip, top off and finish
infusion. I've taught this to a number of customers and other café owners
too. (wholesale customers) All report it works great for them too.
I seemed to have read (but don't recall where) at what point all CO2 is
released from whole roasted beans. IIRC it's when it's dead:-) (As in stale
and dead in the cup...)
For years I used vac sealed mason jars direct from roast cooling for beans
storage, and the coffee was good. For the past year or so I've simply used
coffee bags, and the coffee is still good. Can't say for sure if it stales
that much faster, roast so much so often doesn't matter! I do still use vac
and freeze occasionally if have too much of something I don't won't to die
on me. Roasted too much Esmeralda a few weeks ago, have 5 12oz bags 7 days
"rested" vac'd and frozen for future use.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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8) From: Benjamin VerHage
I wonder what the full-extraction time for atomic coffee would be? Would it=
 approach zero?
From: "Skydragon454" 
To: homeroast
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:35:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Sealing vs Unsealing
Hmmm...atomic coffee.
In a message dated 12/29/2008 9:34:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,  =
benjaminverhage writes:
I always  assumed that's what it is. The fresher the roast, the more  =
foaming/blooming/expansion/bubbles I usually see, especially in pour-over=
  brewing. I =
visualize the CO2 being dispersed throughout the bean, and even  when gro=
und, =
there is still room for the gas to be trapped in the grind.  Unless you =
pulverize the bean to atomic levels, there will be space for the  gas to =
hide.
(The above is just an educated  guess)
From: Joseph  Robertson 
To:  homeroast
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008  6:44:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Sealing vs Unsealing
Cory,
I  have not read any "scientific papers" or studies on this but from  my
experience and reading this list I tend to believe it is. Between  the
grinding and brewing, especially using the AP, all that foaming  you
see on top... I think that is co2 gassing off the top of the brew.  I
can't afford that instrument to test it after Xmas expense's and  all.
:) It would be fun to run some tests though.
RayO? any thoughts on  this?
JoeR
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Cory  Creighton
 wrote:
<Snip>
beans
<Snip>
e found
<Snip>
more
<Snip>
le
<Snip>
from
<Snip>http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
<Snip>http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820<Snip>
--  =
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate  reform.
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m
Homeroast  community pictures -upload yours!) :  =http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820Homeroast  mailing  list
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9) From: Luis Zaman
Well, full extraction meaning full dissolved solids? Do atoms count as  
solids? You may have just figured out the perfect cup of instant coffee!
Luis
On Dec 30, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Benjamin VerHage wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Lynne
We actually have a cafe by that name here in MA - the "Atomic Cafe," -
terrific place in Beverly and Marblehead. Two brothers own the cafe and
roast their own coffees.
Lynne
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Benjamin VerHage <
benjaminverhage> wrote:
<Snip>
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If we all did the things we were capable of, we would literally astound
ourselves.
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11) From: raymanowen
"...after you grind before brewing, is all Co2 released from the bean?"
You refer to the time between grinding and brewing.
Ideally, this time is short. Don't read the newspaper between grinding and
brewing. Extraction is aided by the multiplication of surface area caused by
grinding.
There is no other reason for grinding
Oxygenation (Staling) is also accelerated by the increased surface area.
That's the reason for absolutely minimizing the time between grinding and
brewing. The volume of CO2 driven off by the heat of brewing and the
espresso extraction pressure combine to form the characteristic emulsion
(Crema).
If the CO2 is gone, so is the crema. The grind may be excellent, but the
"canned ground espresso," and especially the "instant espresso powder"
probably want for crema. I wouldn't know, just suspect the awful truth.
Cheers, Maligayang 2009 -RayO, aka Opa!
The canned stuff is not on my "to do" list, nor are they available from
SM...
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12) From: Joseph Robertson
Ray,
Thank you for chiming in on this topic. On some subjects here it is
hard to find science/studies/etc. I know it is not rocket science
but....if I was a rocket scientist I would want to know. My gut told
me what you say is the point in fact or is it the other way around.
I need to explain this to customers all the time. Your summery has got
my vote for the best synopsis so far.
Any one else want to vote here....<];^)
JoeR
On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 11:53 PM,   wrote:
<Snip>
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