HomeRoast Digest


Topic: air versus drum roasters (22 msgs / 638 lines)
1) From: Matthew Walker
I have been roasting with an I-Roast 2 for the past two years and thoroughly
enjoying it.  I roast every week and have not bought third party roasted
beans over that time period.  Now, I am debating whether or not to upgrade
to a drum roaster -- not because there is anything inherently wrong in my
view with the coffee I am roasting but because I have a sense that I might
be missing something and that I could make a quantum leap in the quality of
my home roasted coffee.  Is there a quantum leap to be had say between the
I-Roast 2 and the Gene Cafe for example or the Behmor?  I would appreciate
any perspective or opinions on the qualitative differences between these
methods of air and drum roasting.  the issue of quantity (e.g. 1/2 pound or
1 lb vs the 1/4 lb I roast currently per batch) is of less concern to me,
given my household's consumption levels.  thanks very much for any
insights.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

2) From: Bill
What types of brewing/extraction are you doing?  That's important.
Short answer, the flavors are different, neither good nor bad...  but a
discussion can be had about profiles and what-not... merits of different
roasters...
i love this list, it always gives me upgrade fever.
bill in wyo
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Matthew Walker  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

3) From: Ken B
Hi Matthew,
This is an interesting question that I have been thinking of for the 
past week, since I got my Hot Top.  I will be interested in the ideas 
and thoughts of the knowledge base here.
Admittedly, I am just starting to roast with the Hot Top, and trying to 
figure out the roasts it produces, but for my first week, it would seem 
that the drum roaster compresses the flavors on the roast.  It makes the 
same beans 'smoother' than the IR2, but they also seem to lose a bit of 
the highs and lows, or highs and midtones...I am not sure which yet.  I 
have roasted beans I am pretty familiar with in the Hot Top, from roasts 
in the IR2 that I enjoyed.  I have found the Volcancito Don Pepe that I 
enjoy so much in the IR2 is a bit 'squashed' in the HT, and really 
lacking the qualities I like in the IR roast.  Same with the Koratie 
DP.  The breadth of flavor from the IR2 just does not seem to be there 
in the HT. almost like compressed music vs analog music.  However, the 
Enrakang Mt Alla, roasted to a FC+, seems to have MORE chocolate and is 
smoother in the espresso shots than the same roast level in the IR2.  I 
will continue to experiment, and think I will do dual roasts of the same 
bean for a bit, one in the IR2 and one in the HT so I can do a better 
comparison.
So, bottom line is that I too am very interested in the gathered 
knowledge of the list on this subject.
Best Regards,
Ken B
Matthew Walker wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

4) From: Bob Hazen
Wow!  Great post, Ken.  I was wondering how to respond to the OP when I read 
your post.  You stated precisely what I've been observing over the past few 
weeks.  Your analogies are perfect.  My Behmor has been out of commission, 
so I reverted to my IR1.  Coffees from the IR1 are definitely "expanded" and 
"polyphonic" by comparison.  It was quite the surprise.  I've also noticed 
that rest affects IR1 coffees more dramatically than those from the Behmor. 
There's a distinct difference between 0, 1-day, 2-day and 3-day rested 
coffees.  Unfortunately 3 days is about as far as the 130 g IR1 load will 
take me.  I'm just not good at thinking ahead and scheduling batches of 
beans.  The Behmor's large batch size is definitely a plus for me.
I fully intend to do some profile testing with the Behmor to see if I can 
achieve some flavor de-compression.  I've been focusing on hitting 1st 
gently and stretching out the 1st to 2nd gap.  Now on to a new adventure.
Bob
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

5) From: Matthew Walker
I use a french press almost exclusively.
Thanks; I too love this list, it is an amazing resource.
Matthew
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Bill  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

6) From: Matthew Walker
Thanks, Bob and Ken; fascinating.
I have heard at least one professional roaster speak somewhat
condescendingly about air roasting and assert that it really cannot compare
to the depth and precision of a drum so it is very interesting to hear the
actual cupping observations.  I too would love to hear if others have
insights on this.
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Bob Hazen  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

7) From: Phil Bergman
Mathew,
I also started with an IR2 about 3 years ago.  About 2 years ago I upgraded
to the Gene Cafe.  Presently I use both roasters but tend to use the GC more
to save time.  I like that the GC gives larger volumes per roast, but as you
said this is not a concern for you.  But, the resulting coffees are a bit
different.  I agree with Ken's comments as he summarized the differences.
If you get that "perfect roast" with both machines, I feel the IR2 gives a
more interesting and complex result with sometimes a better taste in the
cup.  But, the results with the IR2 are less predictable as this machine has
little control during the roast.  Drum roasting to me seems to cut out the
highs and lows and give a more uniform mellow result. With it, roasted
coffees don't seem as bright and lively as with the IR2.  Obviously, all
comments depend on each given roasting cycle and one's brewing technique.
One can get lost in a discussion about roasting profiles, temperatures, etc.
without really coming to any conclusion; so I won't go there. My main point
would be that it could be questioned as to whether purchasing the GC will
give you a "better cup".  The GC is a fun, well thought-out machine.  If you
do buy it, you can return to this discussion group in a while and add your
comments.
Phil

8) From: Matthew Walker
Thanks, Phil.  Extremely helpful.  While I am tempted by the control
afforded by the GC and the adventure of experimenting with a new machine, I
am encouraged that I am not depriving myself of the range of flavors in
Tom's outstanding beans.
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Phil Bergman
wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

9) From: Ken Knott
You should note that the GC is not a real drum roaster.  It still roasts th=
e the coffee by hot air.  It is a bit of a hybrid.
That being said, I LOVE IT....  I cannot compare it to any other roaster as=
 it is my first, but it is truly wonderful, enjoyable, easy to pick up, and=
 terrific for control of roasts...  It took me a bit to get it down, but I =
think part of that was because I had not prior experience roasting.
I do not think you can call a GC a drum roaster like a Behmor or Hot Top.  =
I think it still gives very broad flavor profiles....
It would be interesting if we could some roasters with the various machines=
 together for some cupping experiments with a few coffee's....
Ken
<Snip>
<Snip>
 I
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
aded
<Snip>
it
<Snip>
s.
<Snip>
s a
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
e.
<Snip>
oint
<Snip>
ll
<Snip>
our
<Snip>
ade
<Snip>
my
<Snip>
ght
<Snip>
y of
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
ate
<Snip>
d or
<Snip>
e,
<Snip>
ffee.
<Snip>
ffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster.http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad=1_122008
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

10) From: james McDougal
I wonder how much of the difference is due to the cooling method. Does the
I-roast allow you to dump out the beans and cool them quickly. Certainly the
Behmor has a prolonged cooling compared to what I was used to with a fan and
a colander.
Mac
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Matthew Walker  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

11) From: Ken B
The iRoast has a built in cooling cycle that cools the beans to ~100-110 
at the end of that cycle.  It is under 390f in well less than 30 
seconds, depending on ambient air temp and bean mass temp at EOR.  The 
HT dumps the beans into a cooling tray, and if the ambient air temp is 
cool, I think cools as fast to maybe faster if ambient is cold. (I use 
the IR2 in the kitchen and the HT in the garage, so ambient for the IR 
is usually around 70-74 degrees, while ambient for the HT is whatever it 
is outside) Two minutes later with the HT, the beans are just a little 
warm to the touch on a normal Texas day, and when the 4 minute cycle is 
over, they are cool.  On a cold Texas day (like today) they are cool at 
the end of 2 minutes.  This is fairly consistent with the IR cooling cycle.
So, if the (to me) fairly small differences in cooling make for large 
differences in flavor, that would be a most interesting finding.
Best Regards,
Ken B
james McDougal wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

12) From: Ken B
Hmmm, or perhaps we can all roast a bit of the same coffee to the same =
target roast level, and send the results to one of our experienced =
tasters and have them taste and score the samples.  As a control, the =
samples would not be identified as to roaster until after the tasting.  =
Only whole beans should be sent, so that grinders, etc. do not play into =
the mix.  Any of you super tasters out there wish to volunteer?  I think =
it would be a most interesting experiment, and I would be willing to =
share some of my Panama Volcancito Don Pepe bourbon for it.  I have 10 =
lb of it, so would be willing to send a roast batch of it to those who =
wished to participate. (my personal favorite roast on this bean is a =
finish temp of 435 at EOR in the IR2...what I consider a C+)
Best Regards,
Ken B
Ken Knott wrote:
<Snip>
the the coffee by hot air.  It is a bit of a hybrid.
<Snip>
as it is my first, but it is truly wonderful, enjoyable, easy to pick up, a=
nd terrific for control of roasts...  It took me a bit to get it down, but =
I think part of that was because I had not prior experience roasting.
<Snip>
  I think it still gives very broad flavor profiles....
<Snip>
es together for some cupping experiments with a few coffee's....
<Snip>
<Snip>
, I
<Snip>
<Snip>
aded
<Snip>
it
<Snip>
s.
<Snip>
s a
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
e.
<Snip>
oint
<Snip>
ll
<Snip>
our
<Snip>
ade
<Snip>
my
<Snip>
ght
<Snip>
y of
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
ate
<Snip>
d or
<Snip>
e,
<Snip>
ffee.
<Snip>
ffee.com
<Snip>
<Snip>
fee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
<Snip>
ad1_122008
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

13) From: Joseph Robertson
Many professional roasters use Fluid Bed ( air roasters) and produce
very good results. It may be difficult or in some cases impossible to
tell the difference by cupping. I will be there for that cupping
experiment if I hear of one. Check around with other commercial
roasters and ask them what they think of the difference between air
bed and drum roasters and why they are using fluid bed or in many
cases drum. Drum roasters which includes me are very bios about
commercial drum units. I made a point to search out these guys who are
roasting on a big scale to pick there mind.
Ohh, by the way I drank coffee from this roasters cafe's and could not
tell what kind of roaster he was using.
Just my .02,
JoeR
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Matthew Walker  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

14) From: Joseph Robertson
I need to add one more note. When I roast at home I use electric
roasters. My post above was only referring to Natural Gas roasters. It
is important to make that distinction because imo there is a big taste
distinction between the two.
JoeR
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Joseph Robertson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

15) From: Sandy Andina
I haven't had a dependably functioning i-Roast (either model) for over  
a year, but I can say that when it works, the coffee it produces is  
very good indeed.  I think the condescension springs from the speed of  
the convection roast: many of those who have roasted only via  
conventional methods might feel a bit defensive about the effort and  
expense they've put out.  I myself (she repeated redundantly) have  
been guilty of having this mindset about espresso:  I have sunk so  
much time, love and money into prosumer machines and homeroasting that  
I refused to believe anything coming out of a Nespresso machine could  
be worth drinking (perhaps because so many restaurants that use them  
are not conscientious about expiry dates on the capsules). Last week,  
though, there was a new demonstrator at Sur La Table, and she was  
using a fresh batch of capsules and the milk receptacle fresh from the  
fridge. The cappuccino she produced was quite tasty indeed--not quite  
the equal of one made on a prosumer machine and grinder with freshly  
roasted beans and microfoamed milk, but definitely a cut above what  
I've been offered at any Starbucks, Caribou or 99% of restaurants in  
which I've ordered espresso.   I would not return one should I get it  
as a gift (would definitely be great for parties or temple coffeehouse  
nights), though of course my rig of choice is my LaCora and Mazzer  
Mini (or Rocky for alternate beans such as decaf or single origin,  
since I keep my espresso blend in the Mazzer's hopper).
On Jan 4, 2009, at 7:29 AM, Matthew Walker wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

16) From: Joe Preiser
The few Kona coffee growers I know use fluid bed roasters that look like 
huge air poppers.  I'm not sure if this is the model they're using but 
it looks similar (and the company is based in Kona so it may be).http://www.eskimo.com/~coffee/ashe/index.htmlJoseph Robertson wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

17) From: Brian Kamnetz
I've often wondered about the effects of cooling "profiles", or
rather, have often wondered whether there may be significant effects.
There has been lots of discussion on roasting profiles, but in general
there seems to be little interest in variations resulting from cooling
variables.
Incidentally, Les has cautioned about taking too long to cool, which
produces an effect that seems similar to "stalling" during roasting.
Brian
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 10:10 AM, james McDougal  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

18) From: Les
<Snip>
fast and too slow.  The ideal is to cool the beans between 90 seconds
and 3 minutes.  Also, just because the outside of the bean is cool it
doesn't mean the inside is cool.  As far as air roaster vs drum, in
general you get what you pay for.  It is much easier to roast on a
drum roaster.  I will leave it at that.  I will also say, having a
small commercial roaster takes you where you cannot go with the
prosumer models.
Les
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

19) From: Paul Whitener Jr.
I was roasting the Ethiopian Kembata as a blend component for holiday  
gift giving in both my two Poppery II as well as my Behmor. I also  
noticed that the air popper batches were cupping brighter than my
Behmor runs.
I was running my Behmor on P2 and decided to try a batch on P1,  
thinking that the application of heat would be closer to the air  
roaster. For both batches I started the cooling cycle as soon as I  
heard the first indication of second crack (any longer with a DP in  
the Behmor and a chaff fire was imminent). After 2 days rest, the P1  
batch was a bit brighter and crisper than the P2, which was a bit  
rounder. For a blend component, I wanted the brightness and favored  
the air roasts and Behmor P1. To drink as a standalone, I'd probably  
pick the smoother, more chocolatey P2 (admittedly, I'm still  
developing my palate to appreciate the wilder, more rustic DP African  
coffees).
I'm still developing my chops on the Behmor to know which profile is  
best suited for both the beans the resulting cup I'm after. I look  
forward to reading any more air vs. Behmor results that folks turn  
up..... Paul
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

20) From: Andy Thomas
Just curious, Les. What do you consider a "prosumer" roaster? Is there a cl=
ass of roaster between purpose-built home roasting devices and commercial=
 roasters? =
From: Les 
To: homeroast
Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2009 2:54:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] air versus drum roasters
<Snip>
fast and too slow.  The ideal is to cool the beans between 90 seconds
and 3 minutes.  Also, just because the outside of the bean is cool it
doesn't mean the inside is cool.  As far as air roaster vs drum, in
general you get what you pay for.  It is much easier to roast on a
drum roaster.  I will leave it at that.  I will also say, having a
small commercial roaster takes you where you cannot go with the
prosumer models.
Les
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
wrote:
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
 the
<Snip>
 and
<Snip>
te:
<Snip>
ted
<Snip>
grade
<Snip>
my
<Snip>
ght
<Snip>
y of
<Snip>
n the
<Snip>
ciate
<Snip>
und or
<Snip>
e,
<Snip>
ffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
      =
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

21) From: Les
What Tom offers are Prosumer roasters.  These roasters are built to
last about 5 years, and are purpose built.  There  are commercial
roasters that are as small as one pound and do a half pound nicely. (I
have one of those after 18 years of using a Popper and 4 years of the
prosumer roasters.)  The other type of roaster is converting something
that was designed for something else into a roaster.  The most common
is a Air Popper for popcorn.  The Whirley Pop Popcorn works work on
the stove top.  Bread machines to move the beans and a heat gun to
provide the heat seems to work well.  I have not heard much about the
Bread Machine Convection oven conversion of late.  There are many
other creative roasters being made by others.  One method I enjoy that
Pecan Jim taught me was roasting over fire with an Androck Popcorn
roaster.  I also know there is a solar model out there, but I have not
experienced one yet.
Les
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Andy Thomas  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

22) From: miKe mcKoffee
Like espresso machines with "consumer" class and "prosumer" class with the
later being built and functioning more like commercial units, I'd say the
same for roasters with the HotTop being about the only prosumer class and
the rest consumer class. Difference? Functionality and especially roast
control.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820


HomeRoast Digest