HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Length of time between 1st & 2nd crack (18 msgs / 517 lines)
1) From: John Carlson
All,
 =
In reading the recent posts regarding darker & lighter roasts it occured to=
 me that I have probably developed some very bad habits, although they seem=
 to produce pretty good results.
 =
I started roasting with an air popper & FR, and now use an IR2. My control =
is obviously more limited than that of many roasters on the list.
 =
I came to assume about 1 -1 1/2 min between 1st & 2nd was all good. Maybe n=
ot the case?
 =
What is a generally accepted "ideal" length of time between 1st & 2nd and w=
hat results can I expect that I'm currently missing out on.
 =
I'm quite happy with my current roasts, but always seeking to improve.
 =
Thanks,
John C
Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. =http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid==TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 =
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2) From: miKe mcKoffee
I wouldn't say there is an "ideal" length of time between 1st & 2nd crack,
depends on various variables. A few off the top of my head might be how far
going into 2nd, intended brewing method, whether want an evenly roasted bean
or pseudo individual bean mélange effect (roasted darker on the outside t=
han
inside). Regardless time between 1st & 2nd (if there is even to be a 2nd)
don't want time from start of 1st to end of roast to be too short. Generally
speaking I target at least 3 minutes and usually at least 3:30. Roasts
intended for espresso target 5 minutes or even longer.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=
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3) From: Les
Mike,
After doing some testing, I found that going more than 7 minutes past
first crack no matter what, you will flatten the taste profile of the
bean.  I did a series of "stretching" tests.  On the other end of the
spectrum, I found that less that 2.5 minutes after first crack leads
to under developed flavor profiles.  One of the down falls of the
Behmor is it is difficult to control the temperature rise after 1st
crack.  In my opinion the place to manipulate the taste of the bean is
between 1st and 2nd crack.  Once you are past 1st you are are
caramelizing the sugars and I have been working on some profiles that
take me into 2nd crack.  I used to avoid 2nd crack, but it does have
its place.
Les
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 6:22 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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4) From: miKe mcKoffee
Les, =
For clarification. When you say "after first" do you mean after "end" of
first or after "start" of first. Two very different points in the roast. I
always time from and refer to "start" of 1st for profiles. IF you meant
"start", then I'd agree 100%. Too short can be undeveloped and even grassy,
too long flat. Most of my "stretched" profiles targeted for espresso run
about 6 minutes start of 1st to end of roast, regardless the finish degree
of roast. =
miKe
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5) From: Justin Marquez
Les -
"Ay-men, Bruhthah Les!
I like my Behmor a lot, but I surely wish the A B C D buttons were used
over-ride the roast to select different % outputs on the fly so that we
could manually make it drop to say 50% output after C1 is mostly done to
allow stretching of the roasts.  P2 is supposed to do that for us, but I
find it difficult to get it to happen at just the right time.
I have toyed with the idea of "hacking" the Behmor, but I know I really
don't have the time.
After 89 or so roasts, it croaked last week with an ERR 6 and then an ERR 1
on restart. Repair parts (new drum motor and power circuit board) are on the
way. I may take a nice long look at its control CB, too, while I am into its
guts replacing the drum mtr and power CB. (If it dies after the warranty is
over in April, I will be sorely tempted to just buy a new one and hack away
at the old one. I would love to have that baby under PLC control with
interface to a PC for a live display of temps and load% and for data logging
of time/temp/load%.)
Has anyone else here taken such a look at the innards of it yet? I'll be in
a position to compare notes after a week or so. Parts are due in Tuesday,
but we are playing music this weekend, so I may not have time to tinker then
- but soon I will.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Les  wrote:
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6) From: Benjamin VerHage
Mine puked this weekend too. I was two minutes or so in to a roast and the =
drum stopped turning. I turned it off, took out the drum, inspected everyth=
ing and restarted. It ran for another minute or so and stopped again giving=
 the err6 msg. Got a reply from Behmor yesterday asking some additional que=
stions. Sounds like they'll be sending out a new motor.
The real bummer is I loszt almost a whole pound of Koratie WP. The other bu=
mmer is I just finished the last of my homeroast this morning.
From: Justin Marquez 
To: homeroast
Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 9:47:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Length of time between 1st & 2nd crack
Les -
"Ay-men, Bruhthah Les!
I like my Behmor a lot, but I surely wish the A B C D buttons were used
over-ride the roast to select different % outputs on the fly so that we
could manually make it drop to say 50% output after C1 is mostly done to
allow stretching of the roasts.  P2 is supposed to do that for us, but I
find it difficult to get it to happen at just the right time.
I have toyed with the idea of "hacking" the Behmor, but I know I really
don't have the time.
After 89 or so roasts, it croaked last week with an ERR 6 and then an ERR 1
on restart. Repair parts (new drum motor and power circuit board) are on the
way. I may take a nice long look at its control CB, too, while I am into its
guts replacing the drum mtr and power CB. (If it dies after the warranty is
over in April, I will be sorely tempted to just buy a new one and hack away
at the old one. I would love to have that baby under PLC control with
interface to a PC for a live display of temps and load% and for data logging
of time/temp/load%.)
Has anyone else here taken such a look at the innards of it yet? I'll be in
a position to compare notes after a week or so. Parts are due in Tuesday,
but we are playing music this weekend, so I may not have time to tinker then
- but soon I will.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Les  wrote:
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7) From: Les
Mike,
Your assumption is correct.  It is start of 1st.
Les
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:11 AM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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8) From: Eddie Dove
Mike wrote, "Most of my "stretched" profiles targeted for espresso run
about 6 minutes start of 1st to end of roast, regardless the finish
degree of roast."
Mike,
Not that I would want to give up any trade secrets, but might we get
you to embellish a bit on this point?
Which coffees / blends and why ... How to you coax it ... Rationale
for doing what and when ... as it relates to a City+ roast, Full City,
etc?
Respectfully,
Eddie
-- 
Docendo Discimus
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9) From: Sam49
miKe,
When you say start of 1st crack, do you mean the first crack you hear or 
the point where you are starting to hear a steady stream of cracks - 
what I have seen called a "rolling 1st crack."  Those two points can be 
a minute or more apart, even in a 10-12 minute through 2nd crack roast 
cycle.
Sam
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10) From: Joseph Robertson
I'm betting he means 1st crack perceptible.
My ears are on.....miKe.
JoeR
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Sam49  wrote:
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Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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11) From: miKe mcKoffee
When 1st just starts steady, not early first lier. 
miKe
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tmariascoffee.com
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12) From: miKe mcKoffee
If I had an hour or two to wax poetic I would, but I don't. Maybe some day.
Been up since 6am and its almost 7:30pm and still work to do. 
All I can say is "Enjoy the Journey". (and there ain't no short cuts:-)
miKe
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13) From: Edward Bourgeois
MiKe said..."(and there ain't no short cuts:-)..... the crux of the biscuit.
farm
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:21 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list">http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/ Co-President- Ma. Agriculture in the Classroomhttp://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list
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14) From: Edward Bourgeois
this helped me.http://www.sweetmarias.com/roast.carlstaub.htmlOn Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Edward Bourgeois  wrote:
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-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
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15) From: Joseph Robertson
miKe,
We all here really appreciate any and all gems you have time to share with us.
I know how you spell busy. I'm in the same game. Floating the boat
with what seems like a 24/7 nose to the stone.
Best Regards,
JR
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:21 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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-- 
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16) From: Mike Koenig
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17) From: Edward Bourgeois
My .02 cents.  On a darker espresso roast you have 40-50 degrees of
temp. rise from start of first. Generally you will have a 20+- degree
rise/min in the ramp leg from 300f - just before start of first. The
roast will naturally slow at first as moisture is released and energy
is absorbed. Part way between 1st and 2nd the roast will tend to
accelerate. If I take the 40-50 degree rise and divide it up with say
5mins that equals 8-10 degrees rise/min. During first I'll aim for
4-7degrees rise/min. and then make up the difference over the
remaining planned time. The fastest rise during the last min. or 2.
You don't want to make drastic temp. changes that could stall the
progress but as long as you keep a positive increase at all times you
will avoid the baked effect.
farm
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Mike Koenig  wrote:
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k,
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far
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bean
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-- =
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list">http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/ Co-President- Ma. Agriculture in the Classroomhttp://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
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18) From: Michael Dhabolt
Mike,
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Different Mike here:
I've air roasted with a modified P1 Poppery for years.  The times for
the stretch between 1st and 2nd that miKe, Les and Ed have recommended
are pretty much in line with what I've been doing successfully for a
long time. I, like Ed, did some analysis of this four or five years
ago by doing the same bean with varying times for this segment of the
roast (fairly easy to accomplish with PID heat control).  The results,
obviously, are predicated on my personal tastes ... less than 2.5
minutes and longer than 6.5 minutes were outside of my preferences.
For me, the sweet spot for most beans is from 3.5 to 5 minutes,
weighted a bit toward the longer time for espresso.  I generally stop
the roast just prior to 2nd,
The next most dramatic difference was when Jim Schulman recommended
slowing the ramp, not at or during 1st crack but before it starts.
The way my 'Ubber Popper' is instrumented gives me a start of 1st
around 400 degrees F, I slow the ramp at 390 degrees F.
Mike (just plain)
Homeroast mailing list
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