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Topic: OT: need suggestions for new stove & vent (14 msgs / 408 lines)
1) From: Sandy Andina
After 20 years, looks like my basic GE gas range (30", slide-in) is  
finally showing its age.  It replaced the Tragic Chef double-oven  
model that came with the place and worked like a Kenner Easy-Bake  
toy.  Four burners, one supposedly high-output (but back in 1988 that  
meant 10-12,000 BTU), electronic pilotless ignition (not necessarily  
std. back then), gas oven with super-self-cleaning feature (which  
feature I've never had to use--the thing has stayed clean as a  
whistle).  Trouble is, first the clock died, then neither of the  
lights (surface nor oven) would support a new bulb, now the high-power  
burner needs a match to light and finally, the oven runs wildly  
inaccurate--from 40-50 degrees either way but usually slow.  Since I  
did not have it in a location easily vented to the outside, I bought a  
Broan recirculating fan hood (nearly useless, of course).
So I'm ready for a new one. I don't necessarily need dual-fuel, but  
the cooktop must be gas. No alterations to my kitchen save for ducting  
a real hood to the outside, so 30" and all-in-one (not wall oven and  
separate cooktop) it remains.  Want a good broiler and don't want to  
have to take out a mortgage for it or re-insulate my walls, so one of  
those Viking, Garland or Wolf pro ranges is out of the question  
(practically every feature on those is an extra-cost option despite  
the eye-popping base price). And though convection would be nice, I  
have it in my toaster oven (and if I need speed that badly, there's  
always the pressure cooker, microwave, or ordering-in).
So fire away (pun intended).
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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2) From: Joseph Robertson
Sandy,
We put a KitchenAid Convection Natural Gas range in our coffee and
wine shop last year and haven't looked back yet. Not sure which model.
Nice Broiler.
Price range seemed reasonable or I would still have some pain in my
backside not to mention a memory of what it cost.
Cheers,
Joe
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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3) From: jeff michel
Hi Sandy,
Expo is going out of business. There may be some close out deals  
towards the end of their closing.
I don't know what area you are in but in the Bay area I was checking  
out Dvorsons and really liked the Jade residential ranges.
I ended up with a double oven and a cooktop but thats another story.http://jadestoves.com/The other, other, Jeff
On Jan 30, 2009, at 5:51 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: Jim De Hoog
Sandy,
We bought a Hotpoint gas range from BestBuy a couple of years ago. Haven't =
had any problems with it.  Even has a time delay for baking.  Broiler i=
s a low & high settings works well.  I don't remember the $, but it was n=
ot the most expensive nor the cheapest.  Usually we buy mid priced stuff.
Jim
From: Sandy Andina 
To: homeroast
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 7:51:11 PM
Subject: [Homeroast] OT: need suggestions for new stove & vent
After 20 years, looks like my basic GE gas range (30", slide-in) is finally=
 showing its age.  It replaced the Tragic Chef double-oven model that cam=
e with the place and worked like a Kenner Easy-Bake toy.  Four burners, o=
ne supposedly high-output (but back in 1988 that meant 10-12,000 BTU), elec=
tronic pilotless ignition (not necessarily std. back then), gas oven with s=
uper-self-cleaning feature (which feature I've never had to use--the thing =
has stayed clean as a whistle).  Trouble is, first the clock died, then n=
either of the lights (surface nor oven) would support a new bulb, now the h=
igh-power burner needs a match to light and finally, the oven runs wildly i=
naccurate--from 40-50 degrees either way but usually slow.  Since I did n=
ot have it in a location easily vented to the outside, I bought a Broan rec=
irculating fan hood (nearly useless, of course).
So I'm ready for a new one. I don't necessarily need dual-fuel, but the coo=
ktop must be gas. No alterations to my kitchen save for ducting a real hood=
 to the outside, so 30" and all-in-one (not wall oven and separate cooktop)=
 it remains.  Want a good broiler and don't want to have to take out a mo=
rtgage for it or re-insulate my walls, so one of those Viking, Garland or W=
olf pro ranges is out of the question (practically every feature on those i=
s an extra-cost option despite the eye-popping base price). And though conv=
ection would be nice, I have it in my toaster oven (and if I need speed tha=
t badly, there's always the pressure cooker, microwave, or ordering-in).
So fire away (pun intended).
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
Homeroast mailing list
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
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5) From: Sandy Andina
My best friend has the Hotpoint that came with her condo (pre-owned),  
and the time delay on the oven has developed a mind of its own--it has  
taken over the regular heat mechanism and she is constantly having to  
run back and restart.  It's out of warranty, and she's been advised  
that the repair cost is about the same as the price of a new bottom-of- 
the-line stove. My voice teacher and his wife have a GE Monogram slide- 
in (I think it's all-gas, dunno if the oven has a fan) with continuous  
cast-iron grates and four burners--one 18K BTU, one 12K, one 9K and  
one 4K simmer. They love it.  They bought the condo from the builder  
and chose the appliances themselves. Five years ago it was about  
$1600, so I figure its successor (it's been discontinued) is about $2K  
now.  It's been top-rated by Consumer Reports.
Funny thing is that my GE was Consumer Reports' top-rated model too  
when I bought it. It listed for $800 and I got it for $399.  
Unfortunately, that store went out of business years ago.  I wanted a  
pro range and the store owner, who sold them, talked me out of it when  
he told me what structural changes I would have to make to bring my  
kitchen up to fire code at the time. (Newer pro ranges have much  
better insulation these days, part of the reason for astronomical  
costs).
On Jan 31, 2009, at 9:13 AM, Jim De Hoog wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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6) From: Leo Zick
appliances are purely based on price point these days.
in the same range as what you have (im guessing ~500), the newer GEs are
great.  Ive heard good about the electrolux and bosch (LG also in the oven
dept? not sure).  but id stick with tried and true, a nice GE profile.
if your budget is 2000-2500, maybe a fischer or 'low end' viking. :D
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Jim De Hoog  wrote:
<Snip>
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7) From: Angelo
Sandy,
My son just renovated his condo and went with an induction cooktop. 
... It can melt chocolate w/o having to put the pot in water. The 
control of the  temps is amazing. Better than gas.. Plus it doesn't 
give off any heat of its own. Spilled liquids, soups and milk) don't 
burn on and can be wiped away with a damp rag... That Alton guy gives 
a good demo on the web.. They've been using them for decades in Europe..
<Snip>
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8) From: Mike Chester
Sandy,
You did not say how much you want to spend, but I absolutely love my Dacor 
Dual Fuel Range.  I have the Epicure model which is rather pricey @ over 
$4000, but they make a lower priced line called the Preference in the low 
$2000s.  Both models feature the "True Convection" system.  Most consumer 
convection ovens heat from the bottom and the convection fan just push the 
air around somewhat.  The Dacor has 3 modes: conventional that heats from 
the bottom without the fan running, Convection roast, that heats from the 
bottom with the convection running and True Convection that has the bottom 
element off and an extra element around the convection fan on.  This results 
in the bottom of the oven not being hotter.  It also ducts the heated air to 
both sides at all levels resulting in very even heat.  They do a demo where 
they cook 6 trays of chocolate cookies at the same time at six different 
levels in the oven.  Every cookie comes out the same.  I have done this with 
my oven and it works.  It is not a specially rigged oven for the demo.  I 
got a good deal on the Epicure demo, otherwise I would probably have bought 
the Preference.  Both are very well built and don't need special venting or 
spacing like some commercial ranges do.  I highly recommend them
Mike Chester

9) From: Dave
Hi Sandy. We have a Kitchenaid Superba all gas slide in that I really like.
It has one hot burner, on regular, and two simmer burners. The cook-top is
all glass, and is easy to clean. It has convection/regular oven, and the
broiler is in the main oven space. I store the lids for all my pans in the
bottom drawer. It heats quickly and evenly, and is well insulated, so it
doesn't heat the kitchen too much in the summer. I really don't know what we
paid for it about 6-8 years ago, but it was under $2000.
I'd definitely buy another one, it I needed too.
Dave
Some days...
It's just not worth chewing through the leather straps
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Sandy Andina
Thanks, Mike.  I saw nothing cheaper than the Epicure when I clicked  
on a prior like so I'll look at the Preference. It seems to be only a  
little more than the GE Monogram or Profile dual-fuels.
On Jan 31, 2009, at 4:35 PM, Mike Chester wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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11) From: Sandy Andina
Thanks, Dave.  I'm also considering KA because that's what they use at  
America's Test Kitchen, but I've only seen them use separates  
(cooktops and wall ovens). My mom had a Whirlpool all-stainless gas  
cooktop and wall oven in first our open kitchen-dining room in E.  
Flatbush and then her little "galley" kitchen in Midwood before she  
moved to Florida and had to make do with a cheapo "builder" model all- 
in-one slide-in coil-burner electric (which she loathed but there was  
no gas service to Kings Point, her retirement community in Kings  
Point--sometimes she'd sneak out the back door and cook on her back  
steps over a little single-burner backpacking stove I'd bought her for  
power outages (against condo association rules to use it indoors).   
Alas, once she started using oxygen she had to give up on the little  
stovelet, and was stuck eating cold food when the power went out.
My wish list is stable (preferably electronic) oven controls, nice  
solid knobs, heavy cast-iron grates (preferably continuous), at least  
4 (5 if available) burners--one high and one simmer, powerful broiler,  
and 3 oven racks with 4 positions.  I guess these days self-cleaning  
ovens are standard except in restaurants.  I too use the bottom drawer  
for lid storage.  In an ideal universe, I'd have another faucet put in  
on the backsplash for filling heavy stockpots--my sink faucet is one  
of those pullout gooseneck ones but doesn't reach all the way to the  
stove, and a 12-qt. All-Clad stockpot weighs a ton even empty! (Hence,  
I use mostly an 8-qt. Calphalon tall stockpot for pasta, and I can't  
help but think that long pastas don't really have "room to move" in  
there).  And a real, vented range hood would allow me to roast more  
often--though the Behmor has excellent smoke control, if I do more  
than 2 batches in a row the aroma permeates everything unless I throw  
open the back door, open the storm window on the screen door and let  
the ceiling fan run full-tilt....not fun when it's below zero outside!
On Jan 31, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Dave wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
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12) From: Dave
Sandy your wish list sounds just like my unit, except there are 5 rack
positions;-) The burner knobs aren't quite as solid as I might like, but
they aren't flimsy, and don't actually cause me any aggravation. It sounds
like you should try to hunt one down, it may be just what you're looking
for.
Happy shopping!
Dave
Some days...
It's just not worth chewing through the leather straps
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
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13) From: Sandy Andina
I have a single portable induction burner that I use as a "fifth"  
burner or when it's hot inside (and what I want to make isn't  
appropriate for the microwave and I don't want to go outside and wait  
for the gas grill to heat up for just a single item).  But all in all,  
I prefer the "feedback" I get from a gas flame; and some of my pots  
and pans are still anodized aluminum (though the majority now are clad  
stainless or cast iron).
On Jan 31, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Angelo wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
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14) From: Jack M. Rogers
You're open to doing some duct work.  HOW open?  I absolutely love my Broan Rangemaster hood.  It has the blower on the ROOF so it's very efficient and quiet.  I've roasted under it without anyone smelling anything.
Here's a gallery of the installation:http://www.rogers6.com/gallery/v/family/coffeestuff/roasting/airpopper/DSCF0765.JPG.htmlYou may have to reassemble that link if it's too long for a line.">http://www.rogers6.com/gallery/v/family/bbp/kitchenhood/It required a 10" round duct, which is a show-stopper for many retrofit installations.  I happened to have a major bathroom remodel going on upstairs above it, so it was the perfect opportunity to run the ductwork.  The "after" photo is at:http://www.rogers6.com/gallery/v/family/coffeestuff/roasting/airpopper/DSCF0765.JPG.htmlYou may have to reassemble that link if it's too long for a line.
As for ranges, we chose a Dacor dual fuel RSD30.  It was about $2k, which is WAY less than true commercial-style ranges.  I'm disappointed with reliability, but I love the features.  It can take huge pans, all of the surface is cooktop.  Not good for small pots, however.  The oven features pure convection as well as standard modes.  It is a zero clearance installation, too.  I'd probably buy another one if I had it to do again--although there may be other choices that were not available when we bought ours about 8 years ago.
Jack


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