HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Bad tasting beans questions (46 msgs / 1548 lines)
1) From: peterz
I have been on this list for years now, just about the time Tom moved to 
CA is when I started roasting, with lots of help from this list.
Thanks to all.
Lately though, for a few months, my coffee roasting ability has severely 
declined.
Oh my, it all tastes horrid.
I even went to *$ to try theirs, but theirs is worse, so I am not 
completely out of it.
The symptoms lately are that there is not much of a first crack.
There is still a second crack, but the roast is very uneven and some 
times it gets over cooked, and other times it just tastes sour and grassy.
I have not changed my roaster or methods, but the coffee just keeps 
getting worse.
Usually I roast about 540 Grams at a time in my modified Bread machine/ 
turbo oven. It has worked well for years.
I have even tried using my modified Poppery, which used to make 
wonderful small batches, and that did not help.
The beans are stored  in my 'Office' in a chest of drawers and a wooden 
file cabinet. This is on the North side of the house, and the temp 
remains pretty constant.
It occurred to me that since I live in Arizona, in the arguably third 
hottest place on the planet, that maybe my beans are getting too dry?
I had some Yemen Moka for over a year that I just roasted, and it tastes 
like hay that has been through a fire.
No first crack at all, and I stopped the roast at just into second 
crack. The beans became shiny after a day, and they are almost undrinkable.
Is there any hope for the rest of my stash?
I thought about maybe putting the remaining 50 or 60 pounds in a large 
cooler and somehow humidifying them.
A few years ago there was a thread about soaking beans overnight before 
roasting, or maybe it was sealing them in a pot with a little water 
overnight.
My old brain is getting rusty on details.
Recently there was some talk here on storing beans in a specially 
adapted cooler that would maintain some sort of humidity, and I think I 
would like to try that if I could get some hints on how to do it.
It maybe already too late to vac and freeze the greens.
Sometime in the past this was discussed also, and IRC it was not 
recommended unless you could do it quickly and a temperatures much lower 
than the average household freezer can achieve. Apparently you folks 
have done this with some success in a regular freezer though?
Any thoughts on reclaiming my awful tasting stash very much appreciated.
PeterZ
Almost raining today, here in LHC.
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

2) From: Bob Hazen
Peter,
Is your mains voltage low or varying?  That might be the cause of roast 
problems.  Are your brewing methods the same?  Could it be that descaling is 
in order?  One thought would be to buy some roasted beans from Tom.
Bob

3) From: peterz
Hi Bob,
 Thanks for the quick reply, and those are good questions.
What I have done with my roaster is run 10 gage wire directly to the 
heating element.
This is plugged in to a Kill-A-Watt meter that is mounted on a 45 Amp 
Variac.
I control the roast by adjusting the Watts going to the heater.. always 
have done this since the early days.
The temperature is measured in the roasting chamber, under the beans by 
a digital readout from a thermocouple.
Always have had great results, except for these past few months, since 
just before Thanksgiving.
Same brewing methods. Still have that pretty good drip pot from Gevalia 
that was recommended here a while ago because it is the same as one of 
the expensive ones that has that insulated tube rising up through the 
the water chamber. (I think it is available on their site now as a free 
coffee make. Looks the same anyway.)
I always have been using water that has been filtered and then run 
through a Reverse Osmosis rig, so scale should not be a problem.
It is almost like using distilled water ;) Tried using spring water back 
when I started, but could not tell any difference in the resulting taste.
 I can't say what has changed in my roasting process. I did move the 
beans into different cabinets when I rearranged my office last summer.
Guess I will try moistening the beans before my next roast and see how 
that works.
Other folks have noticed the difference in my coffee also (not only my 
wife), but you are right, I should buy a pound roasted from Tom and see 
how it tastes to me.
PeterZ
Still looking to fight dryness, here in LHC
Bob Hazen wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

4) From: Carol Lugg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5) From: Edward Bourgeois
Sounds like dry beans. Not sure how to revive them. Preheat a little
higher and quicken through the drying phase to preserve moisture and
go gently through first. In New England we get very dry indoors during
the winter. Other seasons prolonged dampness. I foodsaver vacuum my
greens in canning jars.
Ed
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 2:50 PM, peterz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list">http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/ Co-President- Ma. Agriculture in the Classroomhttp://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

6) From: Brian Kamnetz
Dry beans sounds like a very plausible hypothesis to me. One way to
test the hypothesis might be to get a fresh batch of greens and roast
some right away, several varieties, and see if they behave differently
than do the beans from your stash.
Brian
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Edward Bourgeois  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

7) From: Bill
Peter,
I would buy some new greens from Tom, as well as some roasted (like Bob
suggested).  How does it taste?
That should tell you if your taster is off or your roasting. Also, I guess
since I'm spending your money, maybe you want to buy one of his plastic
pourovers with some filters?  that way you know it's not your brewer,
either.
one thing I know, it ain't the supplier!!
I don't know if you can resurrect dry beans.  I live in Cheyenne, and it is
always dry here.  Not as bad as AZ, though.  Anyway, I made a "coolerdor" a
bit over a year ago, and use it to humidify my beans.  It also keeps them at
a constant temp...
I'll find the link in the archives and include that in a few minutes.  Not
sure if it can make the beans better, but it might preserve new beans...
good luck!
bill in wyo
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

8) From: Bill
Peter, got this from a thread from Bob in Parker, CO.  I haven't used the
links in over a year, so I don't know if they'll work correctly...
I built the coolerdor.  No problem at all.  A we discussed then, cigars are
kept more humid than beans.  Generally, my cooler runs a bit on the moist
side, around 65% humidity, but I haven't seen any problem with that.  If I'm
opening it every few days, it stays around 60%.
Honestly don't know if it makes a huge difference or not.  Of course, I have
a bit of some Yirgacheffe that is over 6 months old and still tastes pretty
good.  So I guess I"m happy with it!
Hope you get this figured out.
bill in wyo
<Snip>
<Snip>http://www.sweetmarias.com/green.coffee.issues.htmlAnd lastly the potential solution:">http://www.tis-gdv.de/tis_e/ware/genuss/kaffee/kaffee.htm#feuchte<Snip>http://www.sweetmarias.com/green.coffee.issues.htmlAnd lastly the potential solution:
A home made humidorhttp://www.igtc.com/~pmm/tupperdor.htmlHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

9) From: peterz
Hi Bill and Brian,
Just an update,
I weighed out 600 grams of beans and I have them soaking in a SS bowl 
filled with RO water.
Some of them float, when they sink I will try roasting them. Nothing is 
lost so far, I know they were terrible last time I roasted them.
Mostly I buy beans from Tom 60# at a time because I know I love the dry 
processed coffee he sells, and so do my friends.
So I have a lot of coffee in my stash, mostly all the same.
Sure would appreciate the link to the coolerator. you made.
The beans have sunk! so I am off to roast them.
More later,
PeterZ
Bill wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

10) From: peterz
I weighed the 600 Gr of beans after I soaked and let them drip dry. The 
weight went up to 740 Grams.
Just finished roasting them and they now weigh 572 Grams. Guess they 
were dry....
They look good, but never heard first crack. It took 13 minutes to get 
to where first crack is supposed to start, and that is a little slow, 
but they were still light in color.
At 17 minutes there was some kind of cracking, and the temp in the 
chamber was up to 458F, usually that is where second crack is starting. 
Not much smoke up till this point.
Dumped and cooled the beans and the look like milk chocolate, so I hope 
they are done enough.
Have to grind some and taste it.
More to come from
Peterz
Here in LHC where it is cold (50F) and raining!! Hardly ever roast in 
the rain. There usually is none.
peterz wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

11) From: Joseph Robertson
Peter,
How old does you stash get? I have heard that after a year they go
baggy. Now I have not had the chance to taste or roast baggy so I
can't discribe these characteristics.  I know your testing the
roasting here but I'm sure all elements go downhill when the slope
get's steep enough.
Some here swear by vac sealing and freezing. I have no doubt it is
better than not vac sealing and freezing over longer periods.
JoeR
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:04 PM, peterz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

12) From: Brian Kamnetz
Peter,
I imagine you would have mentioned it, but just to be sure... I don't
suppose you have noticed any differences in other flavors? Things you
used to enjoy but now taste "off"?
I'm interesting in knowing how your soaking experiment goes. I don't
know how quickly green beans can absorb water, but my guess is that
they are quite dense and would absorb water quite slowly. If the first
batch don't behave differently, I wonder if soaking longer would make
a difference?
Brian
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:04 PM, peterz  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

13) From: Barry Luterman
A few years ago this came up on the list. People noticed increased flavor of
the roast after pre-soaking the beans in water. However, after the coffe
aged a few days  it became almost undrinkable.
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

14) From: Joseph Robertson
Sounds like your greens might be at the end of their life as a Coffee
source. All good things do pass. The game is to catch them in their
prime.
Kinda reminds me of a song. On the Blues side.
JoeR
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

15) From: Andy Thomas
Peter,
I once rehydrated some dry coffee as follows, at the suggestion of someone =
on this list:Filled a canningjar with green coffee and added about 1/=
2 teaspoon water. Closed it tight and let sit for 48 hours, after which the=
re should be no visible moisture. The idea is to allow the beans to absorb =
moisture without having excess water that you have toremove that might h=
ave dissolved flavor compounds. It worked, sort of -- by which I mean it im=
proved the coffee somewhat but did not restore it to its original freshness=
. But this was a past-crop coffee, at least a couple of years old, so I did=
 not expect a miracle.
Andy
From: peterz 
To: homeroast
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2009 1:13:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Bad tasting beans questions
I weighed the 600 Gr of beans after I soaked and let them drip dry. The wei=
ght went up to 740 Grams.
Just finished roasting them and they now weigh 572 Grams. Guess they were d=
ry....
They look good, but never heard first crack. It took 13 minutes to get to w=
here first crack is supposed to start, and that is a little slow, but they =
were still light in color.
At 17 minutes there was some kind of cracking, and the temp in the chamber =
was up to 458F, usually that is where second crack is starting. Not much sm=
oke up till this point.
Dumped and cooled the beans and the look like milk chocolate, so I hope the=
y are done enough.
Have to grind some and taste it.
More to come from
Peterz
Here in LHC where it is cold (50F) and raining!! Hardly ever roast in the r=
ain. There usually is none.
peterz wrote:
<Snip>
led with RO water.
<Snip>
ost so far, I know they were terrible last time I roasted them.
<Snip>
rocessed coffee he sells, and so do my friends.
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
ss
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
it is
<Snip>
rdor" a
<Snip>
hem at
<Snip>
<Snip>
 Not
<Snip>
<Snip>
fee.com =
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
9/1938 - Release Date: 02/03/09 07:57:00
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
ee.com =
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
/1938 - Release Date: 02/03/09 07:57:00
<Snip>
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
      =
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

16) From: peterz
Hi Brian, Joseph, Barry and Andy,
 The only way I know how to describe my coffee, or any coffee is bad, 
good or great, or something in between.
Try as I might I can never discern any of the flavors folks on this list 
brag about tasting.
Never smoked, so it must be from siphoning gasoline in my younger years.
The most I can tell is that I can taste it in different parts of my 
mouth, top, bottom, back, front, when I drink coffee.
Also sour and full bodied.
Just enough to know if it is good to me or not.
The coffee I have been describing as bad mostly shows up as sour in the 
back top of my mouth, and quickly makes my stomach sour.
Have not been able to drink much of it.
When the coffee is really good it tastes very 'comfortable' through my 
whole mouth, rich and full, no sourness.
No fruit though :(
Almost like being colorblind I guess.
I do like a strong cup of coffee and so does my wife, so we can only use 
8 cups of water in our 12 cup coffee maker otherwise the swiss gold 
filter overflows.
This cup I just roasted is fine. Not great, but not sour and sickening 
either.
It is a bit flat... washed out??? but a huge improvement over not 
soaking them.
My stash never gets older than a year, except for the Yemen Mocha I 
roasted recently. No idea how old that is. May try moistening the rest 
of it (I only had a pound) and see if that helps.
 From what I have just found out with my experimenting today is that I 
need to moisten the coffee somewhat less than soaking them until the 
beans sink.
I suspect I must weigh the beans and let them slowly absorb some fixed 
amount of water over a longer period of time.
I will attempt to weigh out 600 GR and then put them in a ziplock with 
enough water to bring the weight up to 700 Gr, and let them set a day or 
so and see if all the water is absorbed.
 From what Andy just wrote, maybe this will not be the answer, but these 
beans are not that old... less than six months I think.
More to come on this,
PeterZ
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

17) From: Brian Kamnetz
Peter,
I'm assuming that she agrees with you, but just to be sure... does
your wife also notice that the coffee flavors are "off"?
Brian
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:51 PM, peterz  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

18) From: Allen Bartee
Peter,
I'm new to the list (just joined). I used to roast and install equipment for a roaster in Boulder Co.
For what it's worth, any accounts having water bad enough to require us to install a commercial RO system we always had to add a re-calcification element down-stream of the RO. We did extensive cupping with and without re-calcification and there was a huge difference. 
Without it the coffee was very non-distinct with very little varietal distinction, flat and lifeless.
I'm not implying that this is the problem you are having now with bad roasts but you might want to experiment with adding a calcifying cartridge down-stream or just give the water a try without RO for a cupping test to make sure you're getting the best possible brew.
Allen

19) From: Lynne
Peter -
This happened to me awhile ago - someone on this list mentioned meds to me,
and I'm going to ask the same thing of you: do you take any meds, and have
you changed either the type, or the manufacturer lately?
I was taking generic Zestril for my BP, and when my dr changed this (didn't
work for me), I noticed my roasting suddenly improved.
Of course, with me, roasting stove-top, my talents *could* have suddenly
improved (experience being a wise teacher)...
I hope you solve this problem soon - it's horrible not to have good coffee!!
Lynne
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM, peterz  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

20) From: peterz
Oh yes, it is way off.. She almost resorted to buying coffee in the 
grocery store again. I have been roastinf small batches in my Poppery to 
try to get good stuff, but it has all been marginal.
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

21) From: peterz
Hi Lynne, At about the same time I did get a tooth ache, and a bit of a 
cold, so at first I thought that was it. You kow, my mouth being off.
But all my friends who I roast coffee for have had the same opinion. 
They were mostly too polite to complain until I asked.
Maybe I really need to buy smaller amounts more often, but Horse comes 
in so infrequently....
PeterZ
Lynne wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

22) From: Lynne
Hmmm - could be the beans are getting old... I wish I could be of more help.
I hadn't read that your wife - and friends (polite though they be) feel the
same.
It's different for me - the slightest mood difference, or a day with too
much pain, could throw my roasting off. I'm very un-scientific...which makes
it lots of fun, since it's more art for me.. but also makes it difficult to
solve problems.
I would wonder if the temp of your coffee maker had started to change - but
since you are doing swiss gold filters, too, then it's probably not that.
Hope someone can help figure out the problem! Where are you? Maybe someone
experienced is in your area, and could visit to see if they could figure it
out...
Lynne
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 5:25 PM, peterz  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

23) From: Bill
Peter,
included the link in a previous post.  Here it is again if you missed it:
A home made humidorhttp://www.igtc.com/~pmm/tupperdor.htmlpeace!
bill
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

24) From: peterz
Hi Bill,
I am going to do just that as it says in the URL you sent.
 I do have a very large cooler already.... a few of them, so now I need 
to get the PG and the oasis stuff. I never had this problem until 
recently, not sure why, but my latest order came in burlap bags. I 
thought they all did, but like I said, my brain is getting rusty.
As that cup I just roasted cooled, it started tasting a little sour. 
Hopefully that will go away as the beans rest for a few days. They do 
look roasted, same color all the way through, they just did not behave 
in the roaster as to what I was expecting.
Another thing that may be important. There was not much bloom when I 
brewed the coffee in the french press, Sure hope I don't have to throw 
it all away.
PeterZ
Here in LHC, where it is still raining and the streets are rivers.
Bill wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

25) From: raymanowen
"...tastes sour and grassy."
Every electrical connection, from the compression connectors on the bus bars
in your distribution panel,
to the circuit breaker blades,
the connectors to the house wiring,
the connectors on the wiring device, (wall outlet)
the brass prongs of the cord connector,
the connections to the appliance power cord,
the cord connections within the appliance,
and every internal appliance electric junction gains Ohms.
For the same appliance on 240v, the current would be 1/2. The resistive
power loss would be 1/4. The effect on heating devices is staggering. Run
the TO for a normal roast session.
Feel the power cord and the plug prongs right away after you unplug it. More
than a little warm, aren't they?
Think that a little heat is nothing, compared to the TO heater? It subtracts
exponentially from the TO's heater.
(Pwr =*V*/R)
10 volts lost before the heater sucks 100 out of the numerator of the
formula. Leads to toxic fumes and eventual blue fire and sour and grassy
roasts.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
120v heating appliances leads to upgradeitis. High power needs high volts,
not high current.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

26) From: Bob
Peter,
Here's the link to the home made humidor - using a simple coolerhttp://www.igtc.com/~pmm/tupperdor.htmlBob

27) From: David Adler
Hi Peter,
wondering if you weighed the beans after roasting as well as before:  
the difference will give you approximately the moisture content, i.e.:
	(pre-roast weight minus post-roast weight) divided by pre-roast  
weight and then X 100 = % moisture
Would be interesting to know the moisture content of your stored  
beans by this method.
David
On Feb 8, 2009, at 12:03 PM, homeroast- 
request wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

28) From: peterz
Hi Bob,
Thank you again for the link. I am off to Radio Shack now to get a 
Hygrometer.
As luck would have it, we have a whole house humidfier. One of those 
that is free standing, and you add water to it.
We got it when we replaced the tile floors throughout the house with 
wood floors.
We thought that if we kept the humidity steady, and around 50% or so, 
the floors would not develope spaces.
Well they did anyway, so we turned off the humidifier.
I guess then the whole house got very dry inside, including my coffee 
beans!!
They were fine when we had a tile floor.
Somehow the house is much drier with the wood. When I plugged the 
humidifier back in , it's dial said thet the air around it was less than 
25%.
So, I am going to use it in my office, where I keep my greens.
I will get a better hygrometer to help regulate things better.
I talked with some friends about the bag of beans getting hard with just 
adding some water.
They suggest that as the beans started swelling from the water, they 
sucked in the air from the bag as well.
I have no better explanation than that.
Peace,
PeterZ
Bob wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

29) From: peterz
Hi Dave,
"I weighed the 600 Gr of beans after I soaked and let them drip dry. The 
weight went up to 740 Grams.
Just finished roasting them and they now weigh 572 Grams."
This was from an earlier post.
I am not sure how to tell what weight I started with as the beans were 
still coated with water, I did not dry them.
Can't wait to get a hygrometer and see what the humidity is now in that 
bag that got solid on me last night.
PeterZ
David Adler wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

30) From: Bob
Peter,
About purchasing the Propylene Glycol, I found a 50/50% solution 
at a local tobaconist shop ~ the local Walgreens pharmacist had 
no clue what I was talking about! The flower shop had lots of 
the "florist oasis".
Bob

31) From: raymanowen
"the coffee was very non-distinct with very little varietal distinction,
flat and lifeless."
This is a Joke, right?
When I do the initial Bean Crunch after roasting, there is no Calcification
step and the RO is my initials- Ray Owen.
Certainly Not "non-distinct with very little varietal distinction, flat and
lifeless."
<Snip>
                       QED
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

32) From: Brian Kamnetz
Ray,
The whole water thing was covered in great detail by Jim Schulman, in
"Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ". It can be found very easily
with Google.
Brian
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:05 PM,   wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

33) From: Ed Needham
I'm thinking there may be a combination of things happening.  Peter's 
description of 'sour' leads me to believe it might be that the beans are not 
evenly roasting, either bean to bean, or outside/inside the bean.  Comparing 
the color of ground beans with the color of the whole beans can show 
differences if there are any.
--Sour usually denotes underroasted.
--The grassy, hay flavors can be from cheap beans, or it can be from 
mishandled or old beans.
--The lack of pleasant flavors can also be from beans that have been stored 
improperly or too long, or otherwise mishandled.
--A poor grind can also make the coffee taste unpleasant.  If there is 
excessive dust or chunks, the dust overextracts to bitter and nasty, and the 
chunks underextract and much of the brew is less flavorful than it could be.
--Make sure you are brewing with 200F+/- water.
Having a cold, taking medicines, especially zinc, can throw off taste buds, 
but if others are noticing, it's obviously mostly the coffee.  Although your 
taster can be off from taking meds or having compromised taste from the 
cold.
Recommendation:
Buy fresh beans that are raved about on this list.  Roast a bit slower. 
Don't go until the beans are shiny.  Stop the roast and cool quickly.  Brew 
with a manual process so you can control the variables.  I'm guessing the 
problem will be solved.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

34) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
I guess I concurr with the others. You can send me 300 grams of green 
coffee and I can test it on my green coffee moisture meter. I don't 
have a lot of experience with roasting really dry coffee. One thing 
for sure - re-humidfying coffee will not work. In a really dry 
environment I would wonder about vac packing green coffee with a 
seal-a-meal if you needed to srote coffee more than 6 months. It 
would definitely create a more stable environment for the coffee. 
When you are talking about loss in quality from over-drying or the 
opposite, coffee gaining moisture, it's really an issue of how an 
unstable environment creates more water activity in the coffee. 
That's where the compounds that contribute to flavor leave the 
coffee, or off flavors (baggy, etc) enter the coffee when it is 
exposed to higher humidity. So low oxygen levels and a vapor barrier 
(and a cool dark environment) can create a stable environment for the 
green coffee when it is exposed to high dryness or humidity. -Tom
<Snip>
-- 
-Tom
"Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting
               Thompson & Maria -http://www.sweetmarias.com     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

35) From: David Adler
HI Peter,
now I see, you *did* weigh before the soaking, you say it was 600.  
gms, and the final weight (ignoring the 740. gms post-soak weight)  
was 572. So:
(600. gms - 572. gms)/600. gms x 100 => ~ 4.7%
so that appears to be the approximate (starting, before soak)  
moisture content of your green beans, I think not good, 12.%-18.% is,  
I think, ball park for "healthy" green bean - seems you should get no  
more than ~525. gms finished from a 600. gm green load.
david
On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:56 AM, homeroast- 
request wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

36) From: raymanowen
"The whole water thing was covered in great detail..."
Not quite.
The whole water thing has no conceivable application when we're talking bean
crunch.
Isn't it ludicrous to search the world for the perfect coffee bean,
harvesters to glean their farms for perfection in these beans and prepare
them carefully for shipment, then amend the flavor with the water used to
brew?
Which vintage or revision of JSILWFAQ is the current guide? I sure don't
mean to impugn Jim's thorough study, but the water available in different
localities changes with the season, average precipitation and the slugde
level in the water lines in front of your house.
Which JSILWFAQ version, I ask, because the reason you have to delime of
decalcify your brewing apparatus is that all that junk- and more- made it
past your RO system and carbon filters. Want to see a real miasma? Analyze
the "spring water" you buy in the grocery, if it's the genuine stuff.
Want to see absolutely nothing but H2O molecules, an electrical insulator
with no ions? Any water, anywhere, any time, can be distilled to give
exactly those same H2O molecules.
A Sterling standard, easily obtainable. An excellent solvent and transfer
agent for- Coffee aroma solids, oils and everything else. Adds nothing to
the coffee grounds, no lime to your heater or deleterious sludge to your
coffee enjoyment.
If JSILWFAQ is a good yardstick, any competent lab could repeat it and it
ought to yield the same results... Distilled water does. Analytical tests
involving aqueous mixtures use distilled H2O, for the reason there is no
other undefined component in it.
Rules involving any other water you are sold via the water mains or the
grocery shelf, are a compromise. Your tax dollars pay the salaries of
politicians that decide how pure your water will be, or where the
decomposing dead animals of the planet or their fecal material should be
hidden. It can't hide- water recirculates it all.
The water cycle involves a Brobdingnagian steam vapor distiller, so that
precipitation all starts as distilled water ice flakes until it touches the
polluted atmosphere either to melt as rain, refreeze as sleet or hail, or
continue as snow.
The mechanics of precipitation, the dust bowl, the geyser of water boiled in
the microwave etc., is interesting. The stuff you drink is Real Interesting.
Also the behavior of water as it dissolves materials with different
solubilities, precipitates others...
We have hard water here; it used to be pretty "soft" when we first came.
Rocky flats effluent is pretty innocuous now, but Standley Lake was Rockwell
International's waste water tailings pond for years. Also our main water
source. Now we get the dregs from the lake for years to come.
Not exactly Rocky Mountain spring water these days, but it was good enough
for a Steinway 34 ounce brew in the de-limed TechniVorm ring stand. 50g of
IMV beans flash frozen and ground at 47. Maybe some people have to be
Politically Correct and refer to their coffee as "product."
Didn't actually use the TV to heat the water for brewing- It was no small
job to try and get everything as near 200 F as possible just before pour=
ing
the boiling water over the grounds in the gold (plated or brass?) mesh
filter cone.
Hazelnuts and sweet ripe fruit like Gangbusters! Does irradiated water make
any difference?
Cheers, Mabuhay und guter Abend -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

37) From: Malcolm Staudinger
raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
Not quite. Distilled water of the variety that you buy at the store is 
not what analytical labs use. Distillation may remove many ions and 
molecules from water, but doesn't remove organic chemicals that are 
going to likewise boil and condense inside of a distiller. In general it 
does not provide the purity required for analytical chemistry. Much of 
the "pure" water available is deionized, not distilled, via 
reverse-osmosis, again leaving organics in solution/mixer, depending on 
what the case may be. Nanopure water adds an activated carbon step to 
remove those organics, and is the closest you're going to get to "pure" 
H2O. This is what we use in the lab.
But the minute the water touches, well, basically anything, you're going 
to be grabbing ions and molecules from the surfaces. Period. And by 
touches, I mean even being in the presence of the atmosphere. Right away 
you're going to acidify slightly due to equilibrium with the CO2 in the 
air. Other soluble gases and suspended solids in the air will follow (in 
much lower concentrations than the CO2)
Malcolm
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

38) From: Joseph Robertson
Wow, this is more fun that college chem 101.
JoeR
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Malcolm Staudinger
 wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

39) From: Phil Palmintere
I seem to recall that even in theoretically pure water, H20 molecules are
constantly breaking into hydrogen and oxygen ions and recombining into H20
molecules.  But then again, I seem to recall all sorts of things once I've
had a few double espressos.

40) From: kevin creason
<Snip>
<Snip>
It's the pink elephants after #4 that you have to watch out for. Mean
suckers.
-- 
-Kevin
/* Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you
with experience. */
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

41) From: g paris
Peter:
how nice of you to stop by...
"It's the pink elephants"
for sure...
Peter.
I am clear that you roast a mean cup/roast.
What I am not clear on is are you aware.
ginny
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 11:41 AM, peterz  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

42) From: Frank Parth
Yup. That's what happens.
That's why chemists define the pH of a solution as the negative log of the hydrogen ion concentration. "Neutral"water 
has a pH of 7, which indicates the amount of unattached hydrogen in the liquid.
Even in pure water there's always some free hydrogens and some OH that's missing a hydrogen.
I recall all softs of things after I've had a couple of single malts. Espresso doesn't have the same effect on me!
Frank
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

43) From: raymanowen
"...in theoretically pure water, H20 molecules are constantly breaking into
hydrogen and oxygen ions and recombining into H20 molecules."
If I stay REAL QUIET on this, I won't divulge just how little I really know
about the comings and goings of molecules and the conservation of energy.
Does this shuffling of molecules, atoms and ions have anything to do with
the completely unrelated Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, or Ising's
Electron Spin Model? (Dr. Ernst Ising was my physics prof at Bradley U., and
he had roomed with Einstein in Deutschland.)
I am quite positive that H2O molecules have a much different enthalpy than
unbonded ions and atoms, which no longer have the properties of H2O
molecules. Isn't that what chemistry is all about?
Conservation of energy could allow the veritable revolving door sex change
of water molecules into free ions and double bonded H2 and O2 molecules, but
I have questions: From where did the energy come that broke the stable H2O
bonds in the first place? And what regulates the fraction that are breaking
up and recombining at any time?
The last time I saw Dr. Ising was at a Victor Borge concert 16 Mar 85, and
to quote The Great Dane, "Oh, God..."
Cheers, Mabuhay and guter Abend -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Phil Palmintere <
phil.palmintere> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

44) From: Malcolm Staudinger
Not hydrogen and oxygen ions, but rather hydroxide and hydronium ions
Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_waterWasn't even thinking about this aspect of water when I wrote last.
Not related to quantum anythings, it's all simple chemical equilibrium.
At the macro-scale the number of dissociated water molecules at any 
given time is so low that it's not relevant when we're talking about 
using water as solvent for coffee extraction.
Malcolm
raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

45) From: raymanowen
"...a Victor Borge concert 16 Mar 85"Actually, 16 Mar 80 about 8:30 pm at
the Shriner's Mosque in Peoria. Folks had tickets, but Mom died 15 Mar, so I
went with Dad. What a riot, as always. Perfect in the situation... -ro
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

46) From: raymanowen
Now, we're back to coffee. Since water is amphoteric, and can act as either
sex in the proton revolving door scene, what happens when the cup is Train
Wreck bright, would it tend to buffer the flavor or aid it? Uh, oh- " for
every 5.6108 water molecules, one pair will exist as ions." (What Victor
Borge said...)
My lab procedure was good, but One Pair of ions / mole? Maybe not so good.
That wouldn't change the bright or bitter cup so you'd notice it.
Cheers, Mabuhay and Magandang Gabi -RayO, aka Opa!
"...how little I really know"
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee=.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820


HomeRoast Digest