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Topic: Protocol for comparison of Mazzer Mini to Cimbali (25 msgs / 584 lines)
1) From: Brian Kamnetz
Hi Barry,
I'm not an espresso person (yet), but one thing about your protocol
that comes to my mind is that you may probably first need to "dial in"
the grind for each grinder so that you get a 25-sec shot.
I'm hoping that your surgery tomorrow goes smoothly, and I will be
thinking of you and hoping for the best.
Brian
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
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2) From: Barry Luterman
That will be done soon after it is out of the box. That is why the Protocol
starts with vacuuming
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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3) From: Ben Lowery
FWIW, with my Cimbali Max Hybrid, I usually run espresso (in a Silvia)  
at somewhere between 2 & 3 on the scale. Just as a decent starting  
point...
it's very very adjustable. 2.0 -> 2.25 is only a few seconds  
difference in the pour time.
all that said, i think you'll be amazed at how many beans it eats when  
you start up. there's a lot of places for beans to hang up inside the  
thing, and you get a fair bit of grounds hung up in the chute too.
that said, i love it. i was on a rocky and i'm finding it much easier  
to get good shots out of lighter roasts with the max. the rocky just  
never seemed to get fine enough and got fast pours; i can choke the  
silvia easily with the cimbali.
--b
On Feb 19, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Barry Luterman wrote:
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4) From: Ira
At 01:14 PM 2/19/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
7. Put a second equal weight without cleaning and see what comes 
out.  Is the path size constant or not.
In my Macap I put in 22 grams get 16 out and poking up the snout can 
get up to another gram or two. The second time it's close to 22 in 
and 22 out which means I get 5 grams of stale coffee and 11 grains of 
fresh coffee.
Ira
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5) From: Barry Luterman
Good point will add it to the Protocol
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Ira  wrote:
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6) From:
Good luck also to you tomorrow, Barry. I will be thinking about you and wishing you a speedy recovery.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone

7) From: jeff michel
Hi Barry,
I run mine at grind setting 1 for my Promax and 1.5 for the Pavoni.
I tried 1 for the Pavoni the other day and my arms are still sore.
My Dad thought I was going to rip the boiler off the base.
Good shot though!
You will find that the Max holds a lot of particles after the grind.
I will look forward to what yours actually holds.
I haven't measured it yet.
Thanks for the research!
Jef
On Feb 19, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Barry Luterman wrote:
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8) From: Barry Luterman
Good information Perhaps I will roast another pound of Monkey in
preparation. Les is working on a modification for the Hybrid to prevent hang
up below the hopper. You might want to contact him.
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Ben Lowery  wrote:
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9) From: Ben Lowery
<Snip>
Your math there on the subsequent doesn't quite add up (22 in / 22 out  
but 11 + 5 = 16?), but I think I get your point. If 22 into a clean  
grinder yields 16, then 22 in on a stuffed grinder yielding 22 means  
you're getting 16 fresh and 6 stale. Is that your line of reasoning?
If it is, I don't think you're guaranteed that the first bit out is  
stale. Part of it probably is, but part of the coffee lost to the  
grinder gods in your first clean run is now acting like a bit of  
packing, hiding out in the places coffee wants to go, but preventing  
your newly introduced coffee from going there. During subsequent  
grinds, certainly *some* of the previously ground coffee is heading  
out, but it's fairly hard to know what the mix is, I think, unless  
you  concoct some kind of experiment to measure new vs. stale. Food  
dye perhaps? I'm not sure how to mark the beans going in on stuffed  
runs in such a way that you could identify them after they come out,  
vs stales.
Actually, you might be able to pull that off if you have some of those  
grinder cleaning Grindz on hand. They're a different color, so you  
might be able to see visually how much grindz comes out vs how much  
coffee on your first run?  Though the grindz are meant for cleaning  
and are slightly different in size from most coffee beans (for me at  
least).
--b
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10) From: Michael Dhabolt
Barry,
Protocol (and relevant suggestions) sounds like it should lead us to a
useful comparison/conclusion.
Hope this reaches you while you are still feeling good from the drugs.
 And I'll be thinking of you during what I hope is a quick recovery.
You just might need to come up North and visit the kids after your
next jaunt to Vegas.  We'll get together.
I know a local guy that used to have a microscope that was set up to
allow for a 35mm SLR camera.  If I can find him (and it) maybe I could
get some pics.  I'll work on it.
Be well.
Mike (just plain)
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11) From: Edward Bourgeois
Any wagering? The only other factor is the wear on the mini burrs and
the fact that the new burrs arent broke in yet(with some it matters
and others not).
have fun,
and the best with the Docs,
Ed B.
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:23 PM, Ben Lowery  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list">http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/ Co-President- Ma. Agriculture in the Classroomhttp://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list
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12) From: Ira
At 05:23 PM 2/19/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
The math might be bad, but the problem is clear. Now I grind 1 shot 
at a time and vacuum the grinder before every shot. I hate this grinder!
Ira
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13) From: jeff michel
lol! Which grinder?
How about one of these:http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/mahlkonigk30/Zin1953/5304On Feb 20, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Ira wrote:
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14) From: Ira
It's a Macap M4D. It's wonderful in so may ways and bad in just two 
but those are a deal breaker for me.  Chris sold it to me and then 
stopped carrying it because of the problems. It's weird because 
everyone says Chris is so wonderful and when I called to complain the 
woman on the phone went to ask Chris and he told her they weren't 
going to sell it any more because of the terrible clumping and she 
told me and sure enough they don't sell it any more and I'm stuck with it.
I thought about that, but the right grinder for me would be a 
Versalab if they weren't such a seemingly terrible company.
My actual next grinder will start off as a custom made hand cranked 
grinder designed around Mazzer Robur Burrs I'm having made. If it 
works, you'll be able to buy one too, if not I'll have a really 
expensive pepper mill.
<Snip>
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15) From: Brian Kamnetz
Ira,
Your hand grinder with the big burrs is intriguing. I look forward to
hearing more about it.
Brian
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Ira  wrote:
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16) From:
Can't you pack the dead space with something....packing foam?  Rubber? Tape? A pump on top of the hopper (like with my rocky) There's gotta be something to cure that at home depot etc.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone

17) From: Ira
At 03:21 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
The grinds get stuck in the exit chute which is small, long and 
inaccessable.  I discovered how bad it was when the grinder just 
stopped on day because the exit chute finally just clogged 
completely. And to clean it, you need to remove stuff using really 
tiny screwdrivers that I can only assume would be considered not user 
servicable.
Ira
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18) From: michael kaericher
Wow, your mazzer sounds inferior to my Solis Maestro Plus.
Wanna trade?
Mike
From: Ira 
To: homeroast
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:13:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Protocol for comparison of Mazzer Mini to Cimbali =
Max Hybred
At 03:21 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
Tape? A pump on top of the hopper (like with my rocky) There's gotta be som=
ething to cure that at home depot etc.
The grinds get stuck in the exit chute which is small, long and inaccessabl=
e.  I discovered how bad it was when the grinder just stopped on day beca=
use the exit chute finally just clogged completely. And to clean it, you ne=
ed to remove stuff using really tiny screwdrivers that I can only assume wo=
uld be considered not user servicable.
Ira =
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      =
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19) From:
I know I asked this before...but how about a hopper pump to blow th grinds out through the shoot. This was, as I had said, a Rocky problem which was solved based on two prior recs...clacker and eggsheller.
By the way I am now...right now...just downloading the behmor thing. I have been frankly afraid...though desirous...to download it since you introduced it. I was afraid that it might overcomplicate things for me...as I have a tendency to be an absolute nut about certain things (mastering every nuance of a program, having all my three computers and treo to all pretty much have the same stuff) which can serve as a black hole for time management. I guess I am ready and am updating the net framework as we speak so that I can use this wonderful tool. Thanks.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone

20) From: Ira
At 09:30 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
I have the clack lid for the rocky and it's great. I tried on the 
Macap, but there's a bunch of leaks I need to fix before a blower will work.
Ira
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21) From: jeff michel
Hi Dean,
It is not the dead space that is the problem. I already put a spacer  
in there. Easy to do.
It has been note that maybe that causes problems but I doubt it.
As Ira has said it is the feed and also a lot of stuff right in the  
upper conical's themselves which
can be easily vacuumed out, but, it is a waste.
The stuff below is more difficult to get to but my vac has a lot of  
suck so it pulls quite a lot out each time.
It sure does a great grind though!
Mine will be up for sale as soon as I can afford a K30
Jef
On Feb 20, 2009, at 3:21 PM,   wrote:
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22) From: jeff michel
Hi Ira,
Would using Grindz help keep that chute clean?
Are we talking Max here or something else? I hate having hot air  
coming out the wrong end...
Also, do you think by running Max (hopper empty)  while vacuuming from  
the top I could get more debris out?
Thanks
Jeff
On Feb 20, 2009, at 6:13 PM, Ira wrote:
<Snip>
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23) From: jeff michel
I look forward to your creation!
Maybe I will have to hold off on the K30 for a bit...
I don't mind working for my morning cup. Might have to get rid of the  
auto though.
Hand grinder and a Pavoni! Well, no more milk frothing issues then. I  
might get a little moldy (green).
I just cancelled the mini Vario order from CC yesterday. I can get a  
good discount on the K30 (Vario) and I
hope to see it action soon here in Berkeley. Sounds perfect to me.  
More toward the chocolate side
of the flavor spectrum. Electronic timer. No doser. Very little  
clumping. Probably not the grind of the Versa.
Yeah, some people got lucky on the Versalab and others got a whole  
latta headaches. What a great grind!
Maybe someone could make a business fixing other peoples lack of QC in  
the coffee industry.
Shame that we are the QC now for most products.
Not so bad if the company responds quickly and effectively.
Like Dell did on my Laser printer just a couple of weeks ago. 2 weeks  
left on 3 year warranty and got a line
showing up on the paper. Boom! New printer at my door in 2 days and  
paid for return of the old one.
Not only that, the printer is an upgrade and works way better than the  
old one did. I am a happy
camper! Now I have a color laser that is that actually does pictures  
that look great! WOOT!
Versalab sounds like the polar opposite.
Maybe this economy will bring about VW beetle (older one) mentality.
Too bad about the M4D. EBAY?
I had heard good things about CC...
Jef
On Feb 20, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Ira wrote:
<Snip>
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24) From: Ira
At 08:05 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
It's a Macap, not a Mazzer and it's specifically the M4D and no, when 
I decide I'm done with it, I'll sell it.
Ira
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25) From: Ira
At 06:02 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
Macap M4D. I vacuum from both ends, but mostly I care about what 
comes out the bottom.
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