HomeRoast Digest


Topic: No more espresso (25 msgs / 783 lines)
1) From: jeff michel
Well I found out espresso is not my friend. I cannot drink drip coffee  
because it makes my gut hurt (the strong stuff that I like anyway). I  
have always liked espresso drinks. I noticed how inconsistent (i.e.  
bad) espresso was at different places so I did hours of research. Then  
I got my roaster (Behmore (love that name)), grinder (Max Hybrid),  
machine (Promax (rancilio s27)Pavoni pump), and all the little  
accessories (tampers, milk foaming pitchers, etc...)(not in this  
order) and I have been pulling 90-98% crema shots that have ranged  
from chocolate to citrus (got blueberry once off the crema!).  
Wonderful! However, lately, I noticed I was having heart palpitations.  
It was freaky and it took me about a week to figure out it was my  
espresso that was the cause of it. I was pulling about 2 doubles a day  
so I don't think that is an excessive amount. My roasts were about  
Vienna+ so a little of the caffeine was burned off. If anyone notice's  
irregular heart activity (mine was mostly fast), you might want to  
take a break from caffeine to see if it is the cause. My heart  
palpitations stopped as soon as I stopped drinking my espresso so I am  
done...
Back to homemade chai (lotsa ginger).
The trip was fun and the journey just begun!
Peace!
Jef
PS check CL for my stuff in a couple of days.
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2) From: J.W.Bullfrog
try decaf
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:32 AM, jeff michel  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
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3) From: jeff michel
Does it taste as good?
On Mar 24, 2009, at 10:02 AM, J.W.Bullfrog wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: Sandy Andina
A double espresso has the caffeine equivalent of a large mug's worth  
of brewed coffee--two standard "cups" worth. Two double shots=four  
cups of coffee.  That is a little on the high side for most folks  
(though not for many coffee geeks).  Decaf espresso, made with Donkey  
or other SM decafs, can taste great and in a milk-based drink like a  
latte or macchiato is as good as any of the leaded stuff.  If you  
still get palpitations from the tiny residual amount of caffeine in  
decaf, I would check with a cardiologist first before self-diagnosing  
and giving up something unnecessarily.
And the "placebo effect" can be powerful--even in reverse. If you  
believe something is going to cause side effects, it will.  On "Food  
Detectives," the producers tried an experiment at a large Chinese  
restaurant in NYC's Chinatown.  Without telling the diners what the  
experiment was, or who were the subjects and who were the "controls,"  
they divided the room down the middle. One side was served a meal with  
the normal amount of MSG present in the restaurant's recipes, typical  
of Cantonese food (MSG has been used as a seasoning in Oriental  
cookery for thousands of years--the glutamate produces the "fifth  
taste," savory, or "umami," that completes the basic four of salty/ 
sweet/bitter/sour); the other side of the room was served no MSG  
whatsoever.  After the meal, the diners were asked to raise their  
hands if they felt their food had MSG, and to describe their  
symptoms.  Not only were there far fewer diners on the MSG side who  
thought they were served MSG than on the control side, the controls  
described more intense symptoms--and said they were typical of what  
they always felt when given MSG--than the few MSG recipients who  
noticed the seasoning.
On Mar 24, 2009, at 12:02 PM, J.W.Bullfrog wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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5) From: Dave Huddle
I WOULD NOT assume a cause and effect relationship between espresso
and heart palpitations.
I had heart palpitations irregularly and unpredictably for ~30 years
during periods of calm, periods of stress, lots of bad coffee, no
coffee, in bed, driving, riding a motorcycle, etc.......A cardiologist
did catheter ablation on me and zapped out the bad electical thingy.
No more problem!
Dave
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:32 AM, jeff michel  wrote:
<Snip>
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6) From: Michael Vanecek
Self-diagnosis is extremely dangerous. See a physician - that could be 
symptomatic of something far worse. And... it could be something a 
procedure can fix, allowing you to resume your coffee adventure.
Mike
-- 
Zone 8, Texashttp://www.taroandti.com/Exotic Plant Info and More...
jeff michel wrote:
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7) From: Mark Lizotte
Dave...thats funny!
Not to be insensitive.
I am an ER nurse who used to work in the cath lab so I know what you went t=
hrough with the ablation.
I had an experience several years ago where I was having many extra heart b=
eats seemingly caused by stress and coffee.
The doc told me I could:
    Drink Decaf
    Stop drinking coffee all together
    Continue drinking coffee and just live the the ( non-lethal ) ext=
ra beats
Being the addicted coffee snob that I am...I simply chose to continue drink=
ing my coffee...oh and by the way I have no more extra heart beats.....It m=
ust have been the coffee that made me better!
So many coffees and not enough money =-)
Mark
From: Dave Huddle <137trimethyl26dioxopurine>
To: homeroast
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:13:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] No more espresso
I WOULD NOT assume a cause and effect relationship between espresso
and heart palpitations.
I had heart palpitations irregularly and unpredictably for ~30 years
during periods of calm, periods of stress, lots of bad coffee, no
coffee, in bed, driving, riding a motorcycle, etc.......A cardiologist
did catheter ablation on me and zapped out the bad electical thingy.
No more problem!
Dave
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 9:32 AM, jeff michel  wrote:
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8) From: Mike Chester
Sandy,
I agree completely with your hypothesis about the placebo effect, but your 
post contains a couple of factual errors.  MSG has not been used for 
thousands of years as it was a 20th century invention.  It is a man made 
version of naturally occurring glutamates found in many foods such as giant 
sea kelp (Kombu in Japanese).  These have been used in Asian cooking for 
thousands of years.  Umami, which is a Japanese word has recently become 
known in the West and is the new buzz word in cooking. It basically refers 
to mouth feel and richness. There seems to be a large difference in the way 
the body processes natural glutamates and the synthetic MSG, much as the 
body processes natural occurring sugars like sucrose (table sugar which is 
highly refined, but naturally occurring) and man made sugars like high 
fructose corn syrup differently.
I am attaching a link to an article written by someone who explains it much 
better than I can.http://www.pine3.info/Umami.htmBTW - I agree that Jeff should get checked out by a doctor before jumping to 
conclusions.  Even if the cause is the caffeine, that is not a normal 
reaction and may have an underlying cause.
Mike Chester

9) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 24, 2009, at 1:16 PM, jeff michel wrote:
<Snip>
Decaf Donkey is actually a pretty kick-ass (pun intended) blend.
You can also try the single origin decafs for variety. Or you can cut  
back (but not out) the caffeine with a shot of monkey-donkey blend. I  
guess we could call that blended blend "donkey kong".
-
allon
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10) From: Brian Kamnetz
Jeff,
I don't drink decaf, but there have been many, many raves on the list
regarding Tom's decafs. You can check the archives:http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htmBrian
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:16 PM, jeff michel  wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: raymanowen
I said I was going to do it, to Blue Blazes with all the nay sayers that
have nothing better to discuss than parroting the popular buzz phrase "Baggy
coffee."
I'm not challenging the effect of storing fresh coffee beans in extremely
porous small jute bags, where the beans discharge and exchange all their
moisture and aroma with the variable ambient humidity and latent rodent,
feline and canine dung in the area.
Some of the earliest coffee I got online in 2005 was Vietnamese, from an
Atlanta broker. His family in RVN had grown low grade coffee since the days
of French Indo-China, when all they had were Robusta plants that grow like
crazy in the equatorial jungle latitudes.
In the last 20+ years, they've gotten some Arabica seedlings going in the
Highlands, and I think these 2005 VC beans are some of the most intriguing
I've ever roasted. (Probably Arabica, although they weren't specified as
such) 6 hours out of the roaster, these beans were Train Wreck bright! But
the taste and aroma were in there. They would be like extreme Cold Duck to a
wine connoisseur.
Waay too early to grind and roast, plus I had the grinder set for coffee
particulate size about 20% larger than my normal espresso size. Good for the
Moka ("Stove top espresso") pot, but it's a no-go for my pretend Capresso
Luxe espresso machine with the fixed pump and cracked valve body.
After 10 hours' rest and reset the grinder, they made a Great Leap Forward.
The Celtic Critic said she couldn't wait for it to actually age some more. I
would say the flavor was coming out of Turn 4 and lining up for the Main
Straightaway at Indy.
Even more of the delicate floral bouquet yesterday morning- this is some
darn (D A R N) good espresso. We had been blown away by the neat floral
bouquet when we first roasted and drip brewed it in 2005. Now I know some
more about letting it age, and there's enough roasted this time to do just
that. And we can enjoy the changes along the way.
Others panned it, so I roasted other coffees and just let the VC roast sit
in the jar for months. When I opened that jar, it was Eau de Dragstrip burnt
rubber. What a waste- never even tried the big grinder after I found a good
home for my $150 toy grinder that was fast becoming a $200 toy grinder...
"Gosh, the VC beans are still green but they've been in the plastic bag in
the shipping box almost four years- the experts would surely say they are
baggy..."
But I'm not an expert and I'm never hampered by Opinions of Experts.
Starting with no experience at all, I believed the PC drivel, extrapolated
it and attributed it to the experts.
Still, I never really gave the VC beans a chance, since it was the first
green coffee I ever bought from an online source. The first roast was a
melange in a W-B P 2. Always going to "dig out a batch and give them a fair
roast and test with the control of the HG/BM."
I know most have never roasted VC beans with any high expectations, if at
all, and Yours Truly had serious doubts...  But I had never given them a
serious test. After all, they did smell like Bandimere, after I had let the
first roast sit in a Mason jar for several months.
I say "Do your own troubleshooting." In fact, if you have a malady
attributed to the caffeine in coffee, it cannot be cured by drinking Decaf,
as if the caffeine were absent. 'Tain't so, McGee. If drinking Decaf
ameliorates the symptoms, the problem was never defined.
I have palpitations myself. They have persisted for more than 65 years, and
I'm glad as Hell. In doing research, I have to treat the results of a single
test, run once, as bogus even if the data correspond exactly with what I
expected. Drinking Decaf may have collateral results.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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12) From: g paris
Jef:
I really would consider checking out your heart palp's with a doctor. I
really cannot see an espresso or two
doing that, in fact it may be a signal that there is actually a physical
issue that has noting to do with your espresso.
ginny
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 6:32 AM, jeff michel  wrote:
<Snip>
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13) From: Dino De Crisce
I concur. You need an ekg...cardiology exam...and likely a holter monitor (if you have not already done so).
Dino De Crisce
Sent from a Treo phone

14) From: Kathleen Tinkel
I doubt that was a good study. Few diners could qualify for the =
control group because so many regular American foods are laced with =
MSG, either because it was used explicitly or because it was hidden =
in "broth" or other ingredients, such as hydrolyzed vegetable or soy =
protein. (Even cooking broths are likely to have significant levels =
of MSG or glutamate.) Fast foods (hamburgers, fried chicken, =
barbecue) are likely to be high in glutamate. So are water-packed =
tuna in broth and most commercial turkeys and hams, including the =
standard deli counter versions.
To make it trickier, Chinese restaurant food is likely to have MSG or =
glutamate even when the restaurant does not add it at your request =
(and may not realize it is adding any). Many Chinese ingredients =
contain glutamate or MSG as a result of the manufacturing process: =
soy sauce, many of the bean sauces used as a base for Sichuan foods, =
even oyster sauce. Ramen noodles are loaded with it.
 From what I have read, "Chinese restaurant syndrome" could as =
logically be called simply "American eating syndrome."
-- Kathleen
At 12:45 PM -0500 3/24/09, Sandy Andina wrote:
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15) From: Mark Lizotte
Jef, =
I kind of made light of another post  someone made regarding something si=
milar....I really didn't mean to blow it off. I just remembered my own ex=
perience with this same thing and how much I love coffee.
I do have 21 years experience as a cath lab RN and an ER nurse in a level o=
ne trauma center.
I guess some questions would be:
Is your heart rate fast and regular OR is it fast and irregular? What's the=
 rate?
    =
    Fast and regular could indicate a rhythm caused by a different el=
ectrical pathway from the norm in your heart...can be fixed with meds and o=
r other     medical interventions. Some of these rhythms can be serio=
us...depending on where they originate.
    =
    If your heart rate is irregular and fast it could also indicate t=
here's a different electrical pathway from the norm in your heart. Some of =
these rhythms     can be serious and can be fixed with meds and or ot=
her medical interventions.
Either way, you're better off seeing your doctor, describe your symptoms =
to them, have an EKG / labs and then have your doctor evaluate / make rec=
ommendations.
Hope this helps.
Mark
 
From: g paris 
To: homeroast
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:31:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] No more espresso
Jef:
I really would consider checking out your heart palp's with a doctor. I
really cannot see an espresso or two
doing that, in fact it may be a signal that there is actually a physical
issue that has noting to do with your espresso.
ginny
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 6:32 AM, jeff michel  wrote:
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sso
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16) From: Dave Huddle
I wore a Holter monitor many times but NEVER had heart palpitations
when I had the monitor.
Eventually the Dr. had me carry another monitor that I could activate
and capture the electrical impulses and send the data by telephone to
a lab that converted the data to an EKG.    That was the only way I
was ever able to show the Dr. what was happening.
Again - I wouldn't blame the caffeine for the heart palpitations.
Dave
Westerville, OH
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Dino De Crisce  wro=
te:
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 (if you have not already done so).
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17) From: Phil Palmintere
Maybe see an electrophysiologist.http://www.medtronic.com/physician/reveal/results.html<Snip>
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18) From: jeff michel
Thanks for your input everyone!
Jef
On Mar 24, 2009, at 7:19 PM, Phil Palmintere wrote:
<Snip>
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19) From: jeff michel
Hi Mark,
My heart is beating fine, now. I did a 3 hour hike in Redwood on  
Sunday. Dunn trail around Golden spike (i.e. HILLS). Felt great!
Since I stopped drinking my espresso my heart is very regular. When I  
was riding and racing a bicycle I had a resting heart rate of 44 and  
would wake up even lower.
Certainly not that good now but I am still making it up the steepest  
hills (with my dogs) on foot.
Thanks,
Jef
On Mar 24, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Mark Lizotte wrote:
<Snip>
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20) From: Bob Holland
Jeff , et al:
I have been watching this thread and have to say that Decaf is not the end
of the world for coffee snobs!  I got into home roasting because I could not
tolerate caffeinated coffee but still loved the taste of coffee. Caffeine
for me, "cleans like a white tornado"!! So about 10 years ago I found
SweetMarias and a great selection of decaf green beans. I now work for a
"pro roast" operation but still roast my decaf at home with great results.
Tom cups the quality of the bean and their can be a BIG difference on where
you source your decaf greens from, trust me!  I have been on the "dark side"
for 8 years and enjoy a couple of doubles just about every day.
It's not about the buzz, it's about the taste!
Bob
Dexter, Oregon
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21) From: miKe mcKoffee
True enough. I don't do decaf yet I've pulled test shots of the decaf blend
I roast (for Café and for whole bean sale) that where almost shocking.
Shocking as in better than they had a any right to be! I mean it be decaf!
I'm talking tasting way better as a straight shot than I ever expected, let
alone with milk. Now in honesty and as I expect not as good as the real
deal, but my decaf is better than the vast majority of crap regular espresso
out there. =
Decaf does take a very careful almost gentle roast treatment or you'll kill
it. Hell the stuff looks half roasted before firing it up! Just glad I had
and have good bean temp monitoring when first started roasting decaf year
and a half ago.
Slave to the Bean Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=
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22) From: John Letoto
I was just reading a blog post by James Hoffman concerning the quality
of decaf.  He basically said what you just said, miKe: it *is*
possible to get good shots of decaf espresso, but it takes a lot of
work and skill to do so.
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:02 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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-- =
smeagolisfree.blogspot.com
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23) From: Lynne
SM's decaf is totally different. I've been trying the sample packs until I
hit one I like - then
I started to lower my heat when I roast, just a smidgen, to extend the roast
a bit. As we've
said many times here, it's much easier for a decaf roast to go too fast.
I am very, very happy w/the results - in fact, I slowly weaned myself off of
cream (I'm going
to be 56 - started using cream in my early 20's - so you guys can see how
many years of
artery clogging that was...)
I don't do espresso, though (although my coffee has been accused of being
espresso-strength).
Lynne
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 8:28 AM, John Letoto wrote:
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24) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 26, 2009, at 9:33 AM, Lynne wrote:
<Snip>
Unless you're using an iRoast - without the chaff to block the  
airflow, too much heat goes past, and not into the beans.
When I do decaf, I usually do it with chaff from a previous roast  
still in the chaff filter.
-
allon
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25) From: Lynne
allon -
That's interesting - I would never think of using the chaff from another
roast. Clever!
I have the advantage of roasting stove-top. I have a lot of control this way
- now I
just bought a larger pan - one of those light weight, aluminum pans they
sell for Mexican
cooking. I love how the bottom is curved, which I think will help in the
roasting. Managed
to find just one larger wooden 'spatula', which is also great for stove top
roasting.
Wish I had some lousy greens just to season the pan - hopefully my
experiment will prove
successful so I can roast larger amounts. I'd like to try to sell a little -
even if I don't, my son
is dyslexic, in college and finds the caffeine helps him focus. He goes
through a LOT of coffee
these days (thankfully, he considers my homeroast to be - and I quote - "the
best coffee ever"
:D
... as for the decafs, if you remember all my postings - it took me a LONG
time to
get them so they weren't funky-tasting.
Glad I didn't give up.
Lynne
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Allon Stern  wrote:
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