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Topic: vacpot 8 vs 5 vs 2 (10 msgs / 246 lines)
1) From: Doug Hoople
Hi All,
Draw-down times:
Yama 8-cup: 3.0 minutes (48 grams coffee)
Yama 5-cup: 1.5 minutes (36 grams coffee)
Hario 2-cup: 0.5 minutes (16 grams coffee)
These times are not much affected by the fineness of the grind, although my
grinder is my next upgrade, and I could be plagued by fines. Nevertheless,
1.5 minutes for the 5-cup is just about normal from what I've gathered. Note
that I even have more coffee per cup in the smaller sizes, but that doesn't
help to even things out.
In any event, changing the grind will change the quality of the coffee,
won't it?  And changing the grind to change the drawdown interval sounds
like compromising for one thing to help with the other.
All other things being equal, does this mean that I should expect slightly
different coffee from each size of vacpot? What's the best approach? To
target a constant overall steep time? For example, start the 8-cup drawdown
as soon as the rise is done, start the 5-cup drawdown 1 minute after the
rise is done, and start the 2-cup drawdown 2 minutes (ack!) after the rise
is done? Or is there a better approach?
Doug
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2) From: Chad Sheridan
Doug,
My experience with similar pots is that it's relatively impossible to 
avoid a lengthier drawdown with larger pots, given the same grind and 
relative dosing.
I've been working over a Hario Nouveau 3-cup lately, and it draws down 
in about a minute after a 1:15 steep.  Great cup.  I run the Yama 5-cup 
at 1:30 steep with about a 1:30 drawdown.  Will be doing side-by-side 
tests this weekend.
By the way, your dosing seems low to me, or at least well below what I use
3-cup 25g
5-cup 42 g
8 cup 62-63g
Doug Hoople wrote:
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3) From: Seth Grandeau
I have the Yama 8-cup and my draw down time seems to be just short of 2
minutes.  My grind is 26 ticks above true zero on a Rocky grinder.
On 3/26/09, Doug Hoople  wrote:
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4) From: Doug Hoople
While waiting to get a grinder that doesn't generate large amounts of fines,
I guess my next step is to get a sifter.
8-cup drawdown with plain water (and without coffee) is 30 secs. My 3-minute
drawdown doesn't appear to be normal. Your experience, Seth, and another
privately-sent data point indicate that the 3-minute drawdown needs to be
properly addressed. It's not acceptable as is.
What's odd is that a grind that works fine in the 5-cup is problematic in
the 8-cup. As mentioned, coarse or fine don't seem to matter, but that
simply makes the grinder suspect.
Doug
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
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5) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 27, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Doug Hoople wrote:
<Snip>
As I've noted before, lacking a sifter, you can pour the coffee into,  
then out of a styrofoam cup.
The static will make the fine particles stick.
You can even wash out and reuse the cup.
-
allon
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6) From: Doug Hoople
Hi Chad,
Yes, the dosing is low, and I think I reference that, at least obliquely.
But what I wanted to point out with that (besides my wife's preference for
slightly weaker coffee) is that, even with the relatively lower doses in the
bigger pots, I was still getting the lengthening effect. The problem could
only get worse if I were using proper dosing.
The difference a cup makes. You get a minute drawdown with your Hario 3-cup.
On my 2-cup, I get a max of 30 seconds, but sometimes it's as short as 20.
Makes a great cup of coffee though, even at the shorter times.
And Allon, thanks for republishing your tip. I'll give it a try. Amazing
that it still works after washing!
Doug
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Chad Sheridan wrote:
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7) From: raymanowen
"...and I could be plagued by fines... [If the grinder fits in your house,
you are thus plagued]"...changing the grind will change [Every Aspect] of
the coffee...
"...changing the grind to change the drawdown interval [is a] compromise and
changes flavor -[Coffee 101]
"All other things being equal, does this mean that I should expect
slightly different coffee from each size of vacpot? [Well, which one tastes
the best- keep tuning that one to your own satisfaction]
What's the best approach- to target a constant overall steep time?" [Maybe
not- try holding every other aspect constant. Just vary the steep time and
note the resulting flavor changes]
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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8) From: Doug Hoople
Well, I was holding out for a lightly-used, recent-model Mazzer Mini for
less than $400, but I got tired of wondering what the grinder would do, and
I have no current interest in crossing over to the dark side. So pulled the
trigger on a Baratza Virtuoso from SM today, having read from several
reliable sources that it's more than accurate enough for everything but
espresso.
First things first... the 8-cup vacpot test. Was I getting fines from my
crappy old Krups burr mill? Would I get a faster glass rod drawdown than the
3 minutes I was getting even on the coarse setting?
The answer is Yes! Set to 30 (fairly coarse), my drawdown is now 1 minute
and 5 seconds, probably faster than it needs to be. Proof, though, that the
coarse setting doesn't generate fines, or at least not a lot of them. So now
I need to set it finer and start playing with the optimal grind. But there's
obviously no good reason to accept unusually long drawdowns.
It seems that it's safe to use my glass rod again, and I've finally replaced
the last piece of gear from my pre-homeroaster days.
Yeah, I know. We're all posers until we bring home a Robur, but I'm feeling
much more grown up today.
Doug
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 11:44 AM,  wrote:
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9) From: raymanowen
Look at the posting of the grind comparisons of different Mazzer grinders,
including the Robur.
At the magnification used in the scanning electron micro photographs, fines
as small as 0.002" looked like rubble on the surface of Mars, with the main
coffee particles looking like the planet itself.
The point is, with the SEM, the image size is so far beyond the normal
physical scale, it has no real meaning. Could easily have been a B/W picture
of the Martian or Lunar surface
All of the grinders and coffee beans tested produced Massive proportions of
fines in the particulate size distribution. (Good Plurimodal distribution,
also meaningless.)
The only consideration worthy of discussion is the taste.
Is the taste complex and exciting or just a mess, like catsup or mustard on
a nice steak?
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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10) From: Doug Hoople
You've reduced to the absurd, Ray, as you quite often do.
There might be fines in the new grind, but nowhere near to the degree as the
pulverized stuff that was coming out of the old burr grinder, even with the
old burr grinder set to very coarse.
As you say, the proof is in the cup. I compared two cups side by side. The
coffee from the old grinder was chalky and a little tasteless compared to
the coffee from the new grinder. With the new grinder, the cup was cleaner
and the sweet nuttiness of the Costa Rica Helsar Organic Naranjo came
through a lot more clearly.
I'm drinking a cup of Sulawesi right now, and it's never tasted so good at
home. It finally tastes like what I've been reaching for and missing since
last June.
Got grinder?
Doug
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:01 PM,  wrote:
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