HomeRoast Digest


Topic: The new SM forum! (37 msgs / 948 lines)
1) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/We are launching our new Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting Forum in 
advance of the long weekend. It is meant to supplement the email home 
roast list and to preserve the good discussions we have on focused 
topics - discussions that are useful for the new roaster and the 
experienced roaster alike. Please take a look at the forum, sign up 
so you can secure your username, and let us know what you think! It's 
a work in progress, and just "bare bones" right now, but we think it 
will be a good resource over time.
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com
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2) From: Dave Huddle
I registered - BUT didn't get a activation email yet.
I'll check back later.
Dave
Westerville, OH
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
 wrote:
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nce
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and
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ee.com
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3) From: Michael Wascher
I didn't have to wait for the email ... I got a new account, left checkout
to browse some stuff, went back to checkout & noticed the new shipping
option.
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Dave Huddle <
137trimethyl26dioxopurine> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"...wisdom comes to us when it can no longer do any good." --Gabriel Garcia
Marquez
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4) From: J.W.Bullfrog
Got the activation email right away; however, the forum is too wide for my
1024 netbook, and it doesn't auto size.
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
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5) From: Jack M. Rogers
I vote for dropping the mailing list altogether in favor of the forum.  No more delays waiting for posts to show up.  Also, the forum (if so configured) allows uploading photos.
Jack

6) From: Ira
At 08:10 AM 5/23/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
Please no, some of us are actually concerned about time and have no 
interest in waiting endlessly for forum pages to load or trying to 
figure out how many of the messages in this topic we've already read. 
Mailing lists are so much faster.
Ira
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7) From: Bob Hazen
I agree 100% with Ira.  I absolutely detest forums.  They're a pain to wade 
through and favor "format" over content.  Lots of graphics and photos, less 
content.
With the use of email sorting rules, all my SM list stuff goes into one 
folder.  It's easy to scan through and read the emails of interest.  They 
can be saved easily for future reference and OT subjects can easily be taken 
off list.
I'm betting this is going to be a polarized subject.  I vote against the 
forum and for the list.
Vote early and vote often!  (heh heh)
Bob
<Snip>
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8) From: Rick Copple
I'd vote for at least keeping the mailing list. Of course, it could be 
that forum discussions would never appear on the mailing list, and over 
time they might gravitate there, but I too prefer the convenience of a 
mailing list over having to remember to go to a forum and sign in and 
click on a link (hopefully it has one) to show new post since last visit 
then check through them to see what I'm interested in reading. Currently 
I open my email program and they pop into my filtered box, then I scan 
through them and read the ones I want. So much simpler. I don't care 
that much for photos (you can always point to a web site for those).
I am on some forums, but only because I have to be for my writing work. 
But for just discussions, I much prefer emails. Saves much time and work.
-- 
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9) From: Terry McVay (rr)
Before this goes much farther.. did I miss the part where this was an
either/or question?
Terry/Kona

10) From: Kathleen Tinkel
I was delighted to see the new forum setup and signed right up. Home =
Roast list or forum or both would be fine with me, but would like to =
provide a different POV on forums.
If a forum takes forever to load, something is wrong -- low-server =
capacity, overly busy hosting environment, etc. It is not a normal =
characteristic. Users can control which posts are displayed (unread =
or a specific span of time; by topic) -- forums save time because =
users can restrict displays to un-read posts in selected topic areas.
"Distractions" -- graphics and photos, say -- are things the =
proprietor can control. They are in no way inherent to forum =
software. Forum software may offer silly features (photo albums, =
social groups, blogs, twitter-like thingies), all of which can simply =
be turned off by the proprietor. (They should be; none of them works =
as well as the real things, and if used, chew up expensive =
band-width.)
Forums are generally better organized than lists. This is especially =
helpful if you have a very busy list with many subtopics. In a forum =
structure, those interested in posts about Behmor or Gene Cafe can =
focus on those; readers not much interested in espresso can skip =
those.
Forum posts are usually eternal; so if someone develops a new =
interest in a topic, older messages can be accessed as needed.
To do these things with lists, one either must sift through =
irrelevant new posts, organize the mailbox to group by sub-topic but =
not by time, retain many posts on a local drive, or access a separate =
archive. I am often confused by the Home Roast list because of its =
mass and activity level.
Just a couple of thoughts on this topic.
I should probably say that I am a longtime forum operator (20 years =
this fall). Also follow a dozen lists, six of them every day, =
including Home Roast.
-- Kathleen
At 12:04 PM -0700 5/23/09, Bob Hazen wrote:
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At 8:10 AM 5/23/09, Ira wrote:
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11) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
I think the logic to do this is that now we can discuss things either 
way - the forum is definitely not intended to replace the list. They 
are 2 different beasts!
Tom
<Snip>
-- 
-Tom
"Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting
               Thompson & Maria -http://www.sweetmarias.com     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
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12) From: John and Emma
I'm glad that the forum won't replace the list. I will keep reading and
interacting with the list but likely won't be involved in the forum.
John H.

13) From: Jack M. Rogers
But they compete with each other.  Neither will have the same participants.  If traffic goes down on the list, we may have to visit both places to see the good stuff.
And to the concern about filtering, and wondering which ones are read vs. unread...the forum keeps track of that.  You just click the "View new posts" link every time.  You can mark entire categories as "read" if you don't want to see them.
And Bob, I absolutely detest mailing lists.  At least we're not considering a Yahoo! Group -- it's the worst of both.
Jack

14) From: Bob Hazen
Tom,
It's good the list won't be disappearing.  I have learned a great deal from 
the folks on the list and may have given up the pursuit without that 
connection.  Having both a forum and a list will certainly connect with more 
people than either by itself.  Some folks dislike mailing lists, others 
forums.  I suspect, though, that the knowledge base will be diluted when 
people stick to one place or the other and don't hang out in both.  It would 
be a shame for some of the newbies to miss out on the wisdom of old sages 
just because they hang out in a different place.  Critical mass, if you 
will.
It seems that in the dark recesses of my gray matter, I recall you attempted 
to start a forum that was cross-linked with the mailing list.  I think it 
had a few troubles and went bye-bye.  Any chance that approach might be 
rekindled?
Bob
<Snip>
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15) From: Jonathan B. Horen
On Saturday 23 May 2009 Jack M. Rogers wrote:
<Snip>
I agree!  What's more, it'll do away with the tedium of having to wade through the endless re-listings of previous messages in a thread.  As much as I enjoy and learn from the majority of postings, I refuse to continue separating-out the "chaff" which clueless folks include in their replies.
In fact, I'm going to unsubscribe from this mailing list right now!
See you on the new SM Forum!!
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16) From: Doug Hoople
I have to admit that I'm a forum fan. I've been an active member of Mandolin
Cafe, which has become, over the years, a mandatory gathering place for
anyone who takes mandolin playing or mandolin building seriously. I love the
category format, and there are whole categories of topics that I've never
even visited.  But the topics I do spend time in get plenty of attention
from some of my musical heroes, and it's an exciting place to hang out.
As one other poster said, it's the critical mass.
If it gets critical mass, the forum could be a really great thing.
My $0.02.
Doug
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
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17) From: Ira
At 09:17 PM 5/23/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
If it's critical mass but not to much critical mass, Make a forum too 
popular and the quality goes to heck, mailing lists tend to set the 
bar for admission high enough that's less likely to happen.
Ira
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18) From: Doug Hoople
"Make a forum too popular and the quality goes to heck"
Actually quite true, Ira. The Mandolin Cafe is wildly successful, but it's
not just any forum. It's heavily moderated, and rulebreakers are quickly
brushed back.
A heavily-subscribed, but lightly-moderated forum does tend to spin out of
control.
Doug
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Ira  wrote:
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19) From: Dave Huddle
Yep - replying to myself.    Still no activation email from my
registration attempt of Friday evening.
I had attempted to register indicating an email address different from
the one I use here on the list.
So -  I registered again, different user name and the same email I use
for this list.   It worked, so now I'm on the forum.
Dave
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Dave Huddle
<137trimethyl26dioxopurine> wrote:
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ance
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ia
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fee.com
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20) From: Bob Hazen
Good thoughts, Kathleen.  I am being open-minded, so I went poking around
the new forum.  It's much as I expected.  There's a lot of clutter and
distractions.  Each post, of even a few lines, is surrounded by graphics,
links etc.  Perhaps the most annoying, is that I cannot figure out how to
hide already-read posts.  I have to wade through the string each time.  Even
selecting "Read New Posts" doesn't hide posts I've read.
The good thing is that this one is fast.  Hopefully it will stay fast as it
fills up with posts and users.
I will remain open-minded.  I admit I have plenty to learn about forms, but
this one doesn't seem any different than the others I've encountered.
Bob (PeatMonster on the forum)
<Snip>
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21) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
About 2 years ago we tried out a forum that was integrated with the 
list, and visa versa, so list posts would show up in the forum, but 
it was a failure because it would not thread posts from email 
correctly back into the forum. You know, I have put work into this 
forum, and a lot of thought, so I am not sure I appreciate the 
critics who are sounding off before we even know how this will take 
shape, if it will fit a need that other forums don't fill, and if it 
will provide good information without too much difficulty. Certainly 
forums can do that, and many don't. It's about the structure, and how 
it is administered, but much of it is about the community 
participants. If you don't want to look at the forum, don't ... but 
at least give it some time to get  populated and see how it is 
working.
-- 
-Tom
"Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting
               Thompson & Maria -http://www.sweetmarias.com     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
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22) From: Michael Wascher
I had a similar issue ... checked the spam folder & any other places the
mail might've been put & nothing.
I poked around the forum, found a page with option to resend the
confirmation email. The confirmation email showed up in my inbox within a
minute.
--MikeW
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Dave Huddle <
137trimethyl26dioxopurine> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"...wisdom comes to us when it can no longer do any good." --Gabriel Garcia
Marquez
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23) From: Bob
The only complaint I have about the list is that I wish people would
learn to edit. Seemingly endless copies of previous messages to get to
"Me too!" !
Then again, same happens in forums. 
Let's see how it works out. I tend to lean towards the forum. 
Bob Brashear
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24) From: Yakster
Tom,
I think a Forum is a good idea, but like you feel that a forum and a mailing
list are two different animals.
I used to spend hundreds of dollars a month dialing into a computer BBS in
San Luis Obispo after I graduated college and moved on to act as the Sysop
(system operator, a moderator of sorts) back in the eons before the
Internet... BBSs and by extension Forums can become a thriving community.
Forums are also great for having a resource that you can search and go back
to, almost a reference library, but they don't do so well for things of
limited historical usefullness where an email list would serve better.
I've been enjoying my short time on this mailing list and hope to see both
the list and the forum thrive.
-Chris
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25) From: John and Emma
Tom, I once again appreciate the fact that you give us choices. Not either /
or scenario's.
John H.
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26) From: miKe mcKoffee
Tom,
Your Herculean efforts are always appreciated. Be it sourcing the bean
itself or ways of sharing information about the bean. Don't worry too much
about those who like to practice contempt without investigation and endless
speculation, just figure they don't have anything better to do:-) It's not
like You had nothing to do so decided to play with forum software without
giving any thought to it's possible usefulness...
Slave to the Bean Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/">http://www.norwestcoffee.com/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
 
On 
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27) From: John A C Despres
Why is there voting going on? Tom's told us the forum is not intended to
replace the list. Therefore it won't replace the list.
If you hate forums, stay here. If you hate lists go to the forum.
Personally, I like forums very much and will participate there in roasting
threads. No matter how I sort my e-mail, I still have to wade through posts
that do not interest me to find one that does. They are all good posts, but
they are not all for me. That said, I'll continue to check in here just as
often.
John
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
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28) From: Michael Mccandless
*I **3rd** **** that!
One of my pet peeves.
Some people can't be bothered to clip the extra 40 - 50 pages of digest that
we have already read.
McSparky*
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Jonathan B. Horen wrote:
<Snip>
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29) From: Michael Mccandless
I'm not much for forums in general, but I like this one.
Much  potential there.
Should bring in some "new blood".
McSparky
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 7:33 PM, John A C Despres wrote:
<Snip>
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30) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
I REALLY SEE (OOps) I see the list continuing strong, because it 
forms a continuos discussion, a chat. I like that. But I really like 
plunking articles and such into forums, pulling together FAQ stickies 
that can lead folks to travelogues or tip sheets, posting photos into 
specific forums, and building something that is well categorized and 
somewhat searchable. The comment that some forums grow too big and 
become useless is well taken. I use about 4 different forums 
regularly and know how that goes. So I understand the comments, but 
as you can understand I want to stay optimistic about the fact that 
this forum might become a good resource in time ... and this is a 
great list with a really solid and generous community so I don't see 
why that shouldn't be a boon to the forum. As with others, I will be 
on the list here, and have no plans to NOT be here!
-- 
-Tom
"Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting
               Thompson & Maria -http://www.sweetmarias.com     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
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31) From: Mary Vivit
Hey, Doug! Fellow Mandolin Cafe junkie here. You're right about the 
Cafe. It's a bustling place where a lot of threads go on 
simultaneously...as well as the news and info on the "front" page.
Mary in Utah
At 10:17 PM 5/23/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
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32) From: Doug Hoople
"The only complaint I have about the list is that I wish people would
learn to edit. Seemingly endless copies of previous messages to get to
"Me too!""
gmail's actually great at quoting all previous text and then hiding it. I
almost never experience problems like this on the list.
Doug
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Bob  wrote:
<Snip>
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33) From: Brian Kamnetz
Doug,
Gmail hides all the previous text, but it is still there, taking up
space and otherwise cluttering things up. Probably more of an
annoyance than a technological problem.
Brian
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
<Snip>
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34) From: Allon Stern
On May 26, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Doug Hoople wrote:
<Snip>
A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top-posting frowned upon?
Yeah, I wish people would edit down responses to include only the  
relevant portions. Replies containing 5 levels deep, including the  
full mailing list induced trailer get kind of tedious, especially on  
limited bandwidth/size platforms, like mobile devices.
-
allon
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35) From: Yakster
Gmail is nice for those who read their mail with it, automatically hiding
the quoted text and threading replies so that you can read or delete them
all in one go, but probably not so nice for the people who don't use Gmail
who have to read all the Gmailer's replies because I don't believe that the
quotes are hidden for them.
When I'm on my laptop, I can edit down the thread, but when I use Gmail from
my handheld device, I'm not sure I can even delete down the quoted text.
That's also the one place where a mailing list wins over a forum for me, I
can easily read a mailing list on a Blackberry, but forums are a pain that
way.
A well, I think it will all work out.  I managed to get some roasts in this
weekend and am letting my net 6.7 oz of City+ IMV that I roasted yesterday
in the heat of the day with only 115 V of electromotive force available rest
before trying it.  I had a real hard time identifying the start of C1 with
this one.  I think I flagged this too early, before I heard real solid
snapping.  I'll sometimes hear whooshing noises like the beans are expelling
air before the start of first crack, not a cracking noise at all.  Any clue
what this is or what it's called, or is this just me?  I never heard this
with the popper, but with the Behmor being quiter, I think I'm noticing it
now.
I don't think I'll be able to wait longer then tomorrow before I brew this
up.
-Chris
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
<Snip>
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36) From: Doug Hoople
Brian,
I keep forgetting that we return to square one as soon as something's gotten
good enough. Computers in general can handle several generations of text.
And disk drives are so big and bloatware is so bloated, that a bit of extra
text is not a burden to a modern computer.
But then, I keep forgetting that there are mobile devices that are
constantly starved for memory and space. And I keep forgetting that there
are some low-bandwidth connections still in use (although fewer and fewer).
For those of us with a big computer and a high-speed Internet connection,
we've been completely obvlivous to those limitations for years.
Doug
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
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37) From: sci
Tom,
If this new forum is done the way you do everything else, I think it will
become wildly successful. There is no dispute that when it comes to
homeroasting, your business model is the trend setter, with no serious
competition. Homeroasting is catching on, albeit slowly. This new forum
could be the homeroasting information epicenter. So thanks for putting in
the extra effort and taking the risk, and keeping this list simultaneously.
Ivan
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 10:18:56 -0700
From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] The new SM forum!
      http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
       list,   available athttp://www.sweemarias.com/maillistinfo.html"       
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
About 2 years ago we tried out a forum that was integrated with the
list, and visa versa, so list posts would show up in the forum, but
it was a failure because it would not thread posts from email
correctly back into the forum. You know, I have put work into this
forum, and a lot of thought, so I am not sure I appreciate the
critics who are sounding off before we even know how this will take
shape, if it will fit a need that other forums don't fill, and if it
will provide good information without too much difficulty. Certainly
forums can do that, and many don't. It's about the structure, and how
it is administered, but much of it is about the community
participants. If you don't want to look at the forum, don't ... but
at least give it some time to get  populated and see how it is
working.
--
-Tom
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