HomeRoast Digest


Topic: What has changed? (50 msgs / 1406 lines)
1) From: Paul Goelz
So.... been reading the list for years and remaining silent.  This 
evening I placed an order to replenish my stash and I have to say I 
was hard pressed to find more than one or two coffees whose 
description made me want to try them.  Am I the only one who doesn't 
want citrus, or fruit, or leather or earth in my coffee?  I gravitate 
towards low acidity coffees with what I guess are "bass notes" and 
chocolaty / caramel flavors and these seem to be getting scarce.
Or am I just out of synch?  Wouldn't be the first time ;)
And while we're at it, where has coffee from La Minita gone?  What 
did I miss?  It wasn't the best coffee I have had but it was good and 
it was consistent.
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, Michigan USA
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2) From: Bob Hazen
Paul,
I have similar taste preferences.  I like the deep, broody, chocolate 
flavors.  "Bass notes" is an apt description.  I am waiting with baited 
breath (worm-on-tongue according to Mork) for the Horse to arrive. 
Meanwhile, I've found I'm really enjoying the Sulawesi currently available.
So no, I don't believe you're out of synch.  It's just the variation in 
coffees that Tom brings us.  I'm guessing the bass notes will be back around 
again.
Bob
<Snip>
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3) From: miKe mcKoffee
Of course remember the best Harrars are super fruit bombs not "just" deep
chocolate. The biggest blueberry bomb in the last decade was Harrar Lot 30 a
few years ago...
Actually I'd say some things have changed and will continue to change. The
overall quality of "Specialty Coffee" continues to improve, especially in
what Tom sources. What this means is less middle of the road coffee tastes
and more pronounced flavors. Acidity, often coming through as a type of
fruit note, is prized in the best coffees and seldom much tasted in lower
quality coffees. If just looking for chocolate/caramel "comfort food" coffee
might try most bourbon varietals most origins roasted LFC to FC++ depending
on origin. But be careful, you'll often also get some nice acidity too:-)
This can often be avoided by buying from vendors other than Tom who aren't
as picky and offer middle of the road "Specialty Coffees".
As far as Costa Rica availability goes at the moment, I believe we're at the
tail end of CR offerings until the next crop cycle. Don't rightly recall if
Tom brought in any LaMinita this season or not. And of course if it wasn't
up to his very high standards he wouldn't buy it just for the LaMinita name.
Slave to the Bean Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.NorwestCoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/Homeroast mailing list">http://www.norwestcoffee.com/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/Homeroast mailing list
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4) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<Snip>
Nicaragua Miraflor
Honduras Santa Rosa
Costa Rica Violeta
Colombia Cauca
Brazil Aurea
Mexico FTO Ismam
Guatemala Trinidad or Agua Tibia
Those come to mind...
In Africa- have you tried the Rwanda and Burundi? Bourbon coffees, 
incredibly balanced.
<Snip>
You will pay 7.50 a pound for something that "wasn't the best coffee" 
but was just consistent? I won't! There are lots of good mild 
consistent coffees we can sell for $5 a Lb or a bit under sometimes. 
Try the Nica or Hondo recommended above for a balanced cup with mild 
acidity.
-- 
-Tom
"Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting
               Thompson & Maria -http://www.sweetmarias.com     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
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5) From: Paul Goelz
<Snip>
Hi Tom, and thanks.... I think a couple of those were in the order I 
just placed.  Maybe next time I'll ask for a recommendation before I 
order.... didn't think of that.
<Snip>
Well, I don't recall it was $7.50 the last time I bought it.... but 
it has been a while since it was available when I was ready to 
buy.  And price isn't the prime selection criteria.  $7.50 is still 
quite a bit less than the local prices for roasted varietals (we 
actually have a selection in the local upscale grocery store).  No 
idea if they are any good since I have been buying from SweetMarias 
since well before you moved to CA.
When I say it wasn't the best, I mean I have occasionally had 
better.  I have had a couple good batches of Yemen and the Kenyan 
Auction lot #738 we REALLY liked.  But I only bought two pounds and 
didn't realize it would sell out just after I bought it.    The La 
Minita we could count on for a decent cup purchase after purchase.
I don't mind experimenting and that can lead to discovering that next 
great cup.  But there are two of us here and the other coffee drinker 
isn't quite as adventurous..... and neither of us is particularly 
interested in some of the flavors that others find interesting in 
their coffee.   Not really a criticism.... more curiosity about what 
others find interesting in the cup I guess.
Thanks,
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, Michigan USA
pgoelz
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6) From: miKe mcKoffee
On Behalf Of Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<Snip>
<Snip>
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<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
Be careful recommending Rwanda. While 100% bourbon that Rwanda Gkongoro
Nyarusiza makes for a very velvety balanced cup but also has delightful
citrus and spice acidity. Oh, and makes for an excellent lighter toned milk
chocolate straight shot with amazing creamy mouthfeel and light sparkling
dance. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on point of view, sold out.
(Glad I splurged and got 60# from you for the café while it was still
available, currently offered in my SO grinder:-)
Slave to the Bean Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.NorwestCoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=">http://www.norwestcoffee.com/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=
Homeroast mailing list
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7) From: MikeG
Bated Breath, as in held or delayed.   "Baited Breath" is a common
misuse, but non-sensical.
Learned that 6 months ago on "Christie the word smith" on NPR
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Bob Hazen  wrote:
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ee.com
<Snip>
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8) From: Bob Hazen
Yes, you're right most certainly.  'Twas just a play on words.  Goes back to 
the Mork & Mindy show.
Bob

9) From: raymanowen
"Am I the only one who doesn't want citrus, or fruit, or leather or earth in
my coffee?"
You're in luck- they've enlisted the services of a cat and some birds for
your enjoyment. If the stipend is too steep or it's not even on the offer
list, you can always DIY with a visit to the Dumb Friend's League. Any beans
should do, or not, considering the procedure and what's added.
The days of "citrus, fruit, leather or earth" are over. Your ship just came
in.
Cheers, Mabuhay and magandang Umaga -RayO, aka Opa!
Must be some useful corollary to Data Processing's "Garbage in- garbage
out..."
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Paul Goelz  wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Paul Goelz
At 09:21 PM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
Hmmm.... so I guess I truly am out of step with the coffee 
"hobby".  I roast so I can always have fresh coffee, and I roast so I 
can control the roast level.  I do appreciate the myriad of subtle 
flavors, but there are some flavors I just don't like in my coffee 
and it seems that puts me out of step with what is popular and/or 
prized right now.  Probably doesn't help much that I don't like fruit 
in general either ;)
I re-read my original post and discovered that it sounded like I was 
angry.  Not at all.  I am merely curious about whether I am in the 
minority and others are really digging the "fruit bombs".
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, Michigan USA
pgoelz
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11) From: Michael
Paul,
My taste in coffee has grown over time. I started out on the dark side  
and came to home roasting for fresh espresso. My first year of  
roasting consisted of two coffees, Monkey and Donkey. Then I started  
to branch out to other coffees suitable for espresso, Moka Kadir and  
other blends and low acid varietals. Eventually I learned that there  
are different kinds of coffee and different roast levels that can be  
appreciated and enjoyed for the differences they offer to my original  
conception of coffee.  Now in addition to my weekly espresso roasting  
I always include a coffee or two for brewing, often a Kenya of other  
bright coffee that does best in the City roast level range. (Currently  
finishing up the last of my wet processed Koratie.) At first I didn't  
get it. Why would anybody enjoy coffee that was so bright, light  
bodied, and fruity? But over time I have come to appreciate these  
coffees and would miss them if they weren't available. I still have my  
espresso and old school varietals and blends for espresso, but now I  
can also enjoy the light side.
Don't rush it. Just don't write these bright, fruity coffees off  
completely. You may find yourself developing a taste for them over time.
On May 28, 2009, at 6:08 AM, Paul Goelz wrote:
<Snip>
michaelb
espressoperson
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12) From: Yakster
I'm diggin' da bombs, but also love the Earthy flavors of origins like
Tanz and Sumatra.
I still go for classic clean coffee flavors from Panama, Brazil, and
Colombia on occasion.
-Chris
On 5/28/09, Paul Goelz  wrote:
<Snip>
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13) From: Demian Ebert
I like the fruit, but I find it very very hard to get expressed in the
actual roast. To date, I have often noticed berries in the ground
coffee just before brewing. Usually that flavor does not track to the
cup. My experience is, that in my cup anyway, even the 'fruit bombs'
have a great flavor that is not focused on the fruit.
That said there does seem to be a focus on these flavors. Is that
because they are so 'different' from what we learned to expect from a
cup of 'coffee' before homeroasting?
Pondering....with a very nice cup of Sumatra Blue Batak Peaberry.
Demian
On 5/28/09, Paul Goelz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Sent from my mobile device
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14) From: Brian Kamnetz
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X2l0ZW1JZD03ODIw

15) From: Doug Hoople
"Hmmm.... so I guess I truly am out of step with the coffee "hobby".  "
You're not alone, Paul. Probably in a minority, but not alone.
My wife, a tea drinker who has nurtured and nourished an active dislike of
Earl Grey Tea all her life, pours into the sink any cup that even hints of
fruit. And I've corresponded off-list with a few people who've quietly
expressed their skepticism over the cheap and tawdry thrills of the "fruit
bombs."
I confess I've been swayed by the IMV, which is forgiving and easy to roast,
and delivers piles of flavor no matter how it's brewed. But I also like
coffee in my coffee, and I think I know what you mean.
Best to stay mostly away from the Africans, and DP beans worldwide in
general. I'd focus on South and Central America, and, more especially, on
the Asian archipelago group (Indonesia/Sulawesi/Bali/Timor/Flores).
Roasting a little on the dark side, too, tends to burn off the fruit,
dissipate the acidity, highlight the body, and bring out the "bass notes."
You can't do that as much to the South and Central American beans, but you
can to the archipelago coffees.
If you're feeling like you're in a minority, just remember that this is an
aficionado pursuit, and that every aficionado, being so deeply and
absolutely precise about his or her likes and dislikes, is a minority of
one.
Hope you're enjoying whatever coffee you're drinking this morning!
Doug
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Paul Goelz  wrote:
<Snip>
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16) From: Kris McN
<Snip>
 So true.  There are some coffee preferences I have that I won't share even
with this list for fear of being identified as a weirdo among weirdos.
Kris McN
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17) From: Doug Hoople
Hi Michael,
You make it sound as though aversion to fruited flavor characteristics in
coffee is a sign of undeveloped taste.
Paul opened this thread by saying that he's been reading the list for years
and is a longtime green bean buyer.
I think it's fair to say that he's allowed plenty of time to let his tastes
evolve, and that they just haven't evolved in that direction.
Some of the REALLY longtime experienced roasters go through an extended
period of high disdain for "conventional" coffee-er coffee, only to
eventually mellow and allow their roasters back into 2nd crack from time to
time.
It takes all kinds and all tastes.
Doug
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Michael  wrote:
<Snip>
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18) From: Brian Kamnetz
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ZmYgY29tcGxldGVseS4KPiBZb3UgbWF5IGZpbmQgeW91cnNlbGYgZGV2ZWxvcGluZyBhIHRhc3Rl
IGZvciB0aGVtIG92ZXIgdGltZS4KPgo+Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f
X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkhvbWVyb2FzdCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKSG9tZXJvYXN0QGxpc3RzLnN3
ZWV0bWFyaWFzY29mZmVlLmNvbQpodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuc3dlZXRtYXJpYXNjb2ZmZWUuY29tL2xp
c3RpbmZvLmNnaS9ob21lcm9hc3Qtc3dlZXRtYXJpYXNjb2ZmZWUuY29tCkhvbWVyb2FzdCBjb21t
dW5pdHkgcGljdHVyZXMgLXVwbG9hZCB5b3VycyEpIDogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5zd2VldG1hcmlhc2Nv
ZmZlZS5jb20vZ2FsbGVyeS9tYWluLnBocD9nMl9pdGVtSWQ9NzgyMA==

19) From: Brian Kamnetz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=

20) From: decrisce.md
I love the crazy fruited wild coffees. I have liked the dry process africans, by far, as my favorites. The first time I had a coffee like that (yirg from tom), I couldn't believe it. I had never tasted a coffee like that ever. I was hooked. 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

21) From: Randy Roy
Paul, I am a lot like you when it comes to coffee.  I have been buying fr=
om Tom for a long time, but being the only coffee drinker in the house, I o=
nly buy about five pounds at a time.  I go through the list, read Tom's d=
escriptions and decide which ones sound like something I might like.  =
I roast it, still using the same modified Poppery I that I have been usin=
g for years (these things are tanks!!), and drink it.  At times I can t=
aste the "chocolate" or "fruit" that Tom mentioned, but I don't go out of m=
y way looking for the subtleties and nuances.  I just like drinking the f=
reshest coffee possible because it puts anything else to shame. 
From: Paul Goelz 
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweemarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:08:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] What has changed?
At 09:21 PM 5/26/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
ee
<Snip>
Hmmm.... so I guess I truly am out of step with the coffee =
"hobby".  I roast so I can always have fresh coffee, and I roast so I =
can control the roast level.  I do appreciate the myriad of subtle =
flavors, but there are some flavors I just don't like in my coffee =
and it seems that puts me out of step with what is popular and/or =
prized right now.  Probably doesn't help much that I don't like fruit =
in general either ;)
I re-read my original post and discovered that it sounded like I was =
angry.  Not at all.  I am merely curious about whether I am in the =
minority and others are really digging the "fruit bombs".
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, Michigan USA
pgoelz
www.pgoelz.com =
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22) From: Bob Hazen
You're not talking about that "kitty-cat" coffee now, are you???
heh heh....
Bob (proud to be a weirdo's weirdo)
<Snip>
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23) From: Michael
Doug,
I was just relating my experience fwiw. I could have written a note  
similar to Paul's a few years back. Undeveloped taste? Maybe? Or maybe  
just acquiring a taste over time.
Now for me it wasn't all passive waiting and trying. It was an  
educational process too.  Coffee holds a special place in my life and  
I enjoy pushing the boundaries. In my case the hardest part was  
allowing myself to roast light enough to really make the beans sing  
(as miKe would say). And also trying Tom's roasted coffees to see what  
these beans could offer versus what I was roasting. I just felt with  
all the appreciation of these bright coffees by people who's opinions  
I respect and trust that it was worth a bit of my time to explore  
seriously and see what was there. For me it paid off in increased  
appreciation of coffee and its varieties. The journey itself was  
worthwhile. That I also enjoy the end result is an added bonus.
On May 28, 2009, at 12:56 PM, Doug Hoople wrote:
<Snip>
michaelb
espressoperson
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24) From: Doug Hoople
Hi Michael,
I agree completely, and your journey is similar to that of many others.
I didn't mean to suggest that everyone who gravitates toward lighter
roasting is a conformist copycat.
I think that there are a lot of things going on when we taste our coffee,
and there are a lot of things that can go into getting coffee right.
Tom's the first to suggest that coffees say different levels of things at
different levels of roast. And I think we all agree that we all approach
coffee from different perspectives.
Just a couple of quick observations about easy stereotypes.
1) All dark roast is bad, because the bigs all roast French. Thus, any
preference for dark roast must mean that you're still undeveloped and in the
duped thrall of the bigs.
2) If you've moved to lighter roasts, you're automatically honoring the
origin and making the best possible cup from that bean.
3) That all roast artifacts are bad, and that only the origin should speak.
I do personally think that, while roasting for maximum origin is excellent
for diagnosis, it may not always yield the most compelling cup. It often
happens that bringing on a bit of roast artifact enhances the cup, but
that's obviously a matter of taste.
I'm not arguing in favor of all-French-all-the-time (which I think is the
fatal flaw of the bigs), but I am saying that maybe occasionally
subordinating some of the origin to mild roasting artifacts can improve the
cup.
And it goes without saying that we all taste what's in the cup differently.
Doug
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:57 AM, Michael  wrote:
<Snip>
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25) From: Brian Kamnetz
Doug,
Interesting and well said.
People on this list occasionally discuss this topic, and there has
seemed in the past to be a common (though not of course universal)
"track" (and I'm sure that there are other common tracks as well).
First, people who come to home roasting are initially convinced that
they like only dark roasts, probably because, of the coffee they have
had in the past, dark roasts have been the most satisfying, presumably
because the wimpy flavor of the poor-quality beans was beefed up by
the charcoal of dark roasting.
[Or, as they are learning to roast, they under-roast a batch or two,
and those roasts yield a thin, bitter, undrinkable cup which is not
soon forgotten, and which reinforces the notion that dark roasts are
"best".]
Over a period of time they learn that roasting lighter can yield a
very interesting and satisfying cup. This is a remarkable discovery
because it contradicts what they previously "knew". This is an
exciting period of discovery as varieties that are "known" are
rediscovered in their light-roast flavors.
After a period of time, there begins and exploration of darker-than-city roasts.
Again, this is a generalization, but still I think describes a common
trend among many members of the list.
Brian
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
<Snip>
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26) From: John A C Despres
Good discussion.
My experience has been a bit different. I, and the people who surround me,
have never been attracted to over roasted beans. Not Starbucks or any other
source of charcoal coffee.
The coffee I have always preferred had no oil showing nor was it terribly
dark. Home roasting with Tom's tutelage was a natural outgrowth and
extension of my preferences because I like living in the City. In fact, I
wasn't much of a fan of the French roast blend sold at Sweet Maria's so I
shared extensively with a friend who likes darker coffee.
I tend to roast from City to Full City +, but seldom get much darker than
that. Oh, my espresso roasts? Yeah, City to Full City +. I try just about
everything through the porta-filter. Some I love, some I hate, but will
enjoy in the press, Chemex, TV, Yama or whatever else I fel like playing
with.
My journey of developing tastes and appreciating the myriad of flavors is
continuing with eager anticipation and excitement with each new SO I try. At
first, I was attracted almost exclusively to the wilder flavors such as IMV
or some of the Yemen offerings, the aged Sumatra Mandhelings and so on. I
just wasn't grabbed by the more subtle flavors of some South or Central
America coffees or the color wheel varieties of bourbons out there. I don't
choose by Tom's grading numbers but by the text he writes, and if I happen
to miss one or two, I make choices by what other listers are raving about. I
missed the Uganda Bugisu last year, but not this year. Cameroon Caplami? I
need more now that I know how to roast it for better flavor.
Given a bit of time, more study and improving roasting skills, I came to
appreciate more of those subtle, chocolate and dried fruit coffees as well
as the tobacco, earthy and funky beans.
I like to have a variety on hand, and depending on my preference of the
moment, wil make a choice while staring into the cupboard.
Blends? I don't know anything about blends. There's a huge world of SO out
there, so I don't have much interest in blending unless it's how I finish up
several SO batches that are too small to brew by themselves.
Someday I may be a good enough roaster to find every nuance Tom describes,
but for now I'm content with the search and the results while I continue the
quest.
John
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
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27) From: Paul Goelz
At 02:34 PM 5/29/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
I think I probably perceive tastes similarly to others when it comes 
to coffee and flavors.  Where I seem to differ from many here is that 
I simply don't LIKE some of the flavors I find in some of my 
coffees.  I roast to be able to consistently drink fresh coffee that 
tastes good to me.  Coffee with blueberry or lemon or earth in it 
just doesn't appeal.  The gentler more chocolaty coffees do.
Interestingly, I find the flavors that I don't like in regular coffee 
are quite interesting in espresso.  I drink espresso in lattes, and 
am much more tolerant of "different" flavors there.
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, Michigan USA
pgoelz
www.pgoelz.com
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28) From: miKe mcKoffee
Not necessarily surprising that someone who only likes tame coffees likes
more distinct tasting coffees espresso extracted with milk added. Properly
steamed milk smoothes, mellows and transforms espresso extracted coffee into
a beverage that is totally different from espresso.
I would be highly surprised if someone who preferred tame coffees actually
liked espresso, especially espresso from beans with more distinct flavor
characteristics. FWIW espresso extracted coffee is the beverage espresso.
Properly pulled espresso can be a smooth, rich, creamy, deep, and often
intense coffee magnifying experience that will linger for hours. Add milk or
other additives and it's no longer the beverage espresso but rather some
other beverage with espresso in it. IE a latte is not espresso and the word
latte itself says that meaning milk, derived from Italian caffe e latte
meaning coffee and milk.
Yes indeed, it's a pet peeve of mine people calling all kinds of beverages
"espresso" that are not the beverage espresso. Hell it's not the laymen's
fault. Take the new McCafe for instance advertising now offering espresso.
The hell they do. They sell beverages with milk, other stuff and espresso.
Even their so call "Iced Coffee" by default has over half cream. 
Ask me for an "espresso" and that's exactly what you'll get, a straight shot
of espresso. If you expect something else best call it something else
because it is something else.
End Rant:-)
Typed while drinking a quite delicious after dinner watered down doppio aka
double shot Americano of 3 parts City IMV 2 parts my City+ McLoughlin House
Blend (which is a 1:1:1:1 pre-roast blend of specific Guat,CR,ElSal PN &
Brazil SDP) Didn't have enough IMV for both Debi and I so mixed it, turned
out even better than expected...
Slave to the Bean Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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<Snip>
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29) From: g paris
Paul:
your not at all out of synch...
while I enjoy some fruit in my cup I hate citrus!!
while the review may talk about this or that flavor you may not get that at
all when you taste the coffee after
you roast it!!
remember you are reading a review by a guy whoi makes his living cupping and
selling coffee, he will
note everything he finds in that cup.
I don't know if I have ever tasted leather or earth in my cup though some
have had those notes in a review.
To me that/those notes will give me a bit more base notes.
Again is really is a very personal matter of your own taste buds.
have a great day,
ginny
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Paul Goelz  wrote:
<Snip>
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30) From: John A C Despres
I'm in the car with miKe on this one.
John
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 11:43 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
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31) From: Ken Schillinger
"snip- Not necessarily surprising that someone who only likes tame coffees 
likes
 more distinct tasting coffees espresso extracted with milk added. Properly
 steamed milk smoothes, mellows and transforms espresso extracted coffee
 into a beverage that is totally different from espresso. snip"
Is it just one or the other?
I'm not a 100% sure how to take this post. I am one of the folks that like 
Cafe on Leche with my weekend breakfast of homemade tortillas, cheese, Gallo 
Pinto (flavorful beans and rice mildly spiced & and considered to be the 
quintessential dish of Costa Rica), and eggs with onion and tomato. In the 
afternoon though, I like nothing better than to savor a double shot of 
properly pulled espresso.
Most weekday mornings bring plain coffee made in a pour-over or FP, using 
beans I usually roast to just into second C.
With so many coffee choices available, how can anyone have just one 
favorite???
Ken.
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32) From: g paris
Hi Ken:
if you are asking if espresso is espresso is espresso, yes; if you add
something else it is not espresso but shot of espresso with something added
which does in the purist mind change the name of the drink.
I have discovered that all over Europe 50% of those who order a shot or
double of espresso use a cube
of sugar and have a 2oz shot of water on the side...
if you tell them they are not drinking espresso they will either laugh at
you or pop you in the nose.
to confuse you even more, is a cup of coffee with cream and sugar still a
cup of coffee, YES...
so yes you can have an espresso withy something added and still have a real
espresso.
does that help at all!!!
ginny
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Ken Schillinger  wrote:
<Snip>
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33) From: g paris
Ken:
also, how can you really have a favorite? I find a new favorite each time I
open a bag of new coffee from Tom.
each is it's own. I also try EVERY single coffee I get as an espresso, some
do get a cube of sugar!!!
ginny
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Ken Schillinger  wrote:
<Snip>
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34) From: Brian Kamnetz
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Ken Schillinger  wrote:
<Snip>
I'm with you, Ken, only I take it a bit further; I no longer even
narrow it down to categories. It's just too much fun to explore, even
within "known" categories. Writing off one category, such as
Ethiopians, means missing too many unusual coffees. So I simply order
an 8# sampler (though I admit I add a couple things I just can't stand
to miss).
Brian
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35) From: raymanowen
FIGMO- Finally, I Got My Order- from Sweet Maria's- a couple of days ago, 29
May actually!
I guess me an' the Celt are aboard the Dark Side espress now, since
"a beverage that is totally different from espresso"
no longer finds a cup to sit in around here.
First out of the HG/BM was a Steinway of the IMV. Test was good; we're not
cuppers. Roasted 30 May, this is on the espress elevator to the 90th floor.
A C+ roast for a change, there is none of the dull sweaty appearance to the
beans.
In fact, the beans do not appear at all-
Dammit! I've done it again. Maybe if I hoped real hard, this wouldn't
happen. I Just brewed another double shot, and had to use a bit of the
LaVazza fluff to round out the filter basket of IMV ground at 20. The LaVF
was finer and had  like the aroma of the IMV out of the grinder.
Skip the morbid details, but this was a real Botch job, Period. Why, oh why
do I do this? When the beans are half gone, you roast. Half down, you
roast... This one's for mixing with sugar, cream and syrups. Ach, die Höl=
le
davon!
Cheers, Mabuhay  and magandang Gabi -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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36) From: miKe mcKoffee
RayO, LavAzza? And mixing IMV with LavAzza?! I woulda thunk you'da knowd
betta by now... But sadly you DID get the cup you deserved! I mean "Life's
Too Short to Drink Bad Coffee" has not been some fun slogan for me but
rather a Life Guiding Principle since I first began drinking and chasing
fresh roasted fresh ground fresh brewed coffee late in life at age 30 in
1984...
Though it does sound like you've sufficiently chastised yourself. And of
course your punishment was equal to the transgression, the offending cup
itself. Go in humbled repentance and sin no more:-)
Slave to the Bean Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.NorwestCoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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37) From: Joseph Robertson
I saw this one coming, I said to myself,"I can't wait to see if miKe posts
on this one"
sure enough, thanks to a few like RayO and miKe and many others here this
list is so fun to follow....
JoeR
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 7:04 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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38) From: raymanowen
"Go in humbled repentance and sin no more:-)"
There is this to say about that- I well suspected that mixing LavAzza or any
other preground hard vacuum packed coffee brick was a non sequitur as far as
lending anything ** the flavor of the excellent IMV or any other coffee
from SM. Just the opposite- it was more like a Fire Extinguisher that
smothered the whole shot.
Since I had never actually tried such nonsense before, when I found I was "a
few beans short of a double basket," I forgot about the few IMV beans I had
from the previous roast. I had just picked up a couple of Canolis and some
cheese-- and the LavAzza coffee brick- from Valente's nur für die komplet=
te
Hölle davon!
Would have been in good shape with the few 14-day IMV beans, but I forgot
I'd stashed them. Now I know that the IMV and LavAzza fluff are so far
mismatched as to be counteractive.
Cheers, Mabuhay and Magandang Umaga -RayO, aka Opa!
The sin is never to try something, thinking it might fail... Lucky at
109°17' 0" 13°5' 0", 6' asl, not so much at 105° 2' 13" West, 39° 5=
0' 11"
North, 5613' asl. I'll take it.
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:04 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
nt
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
-- =
Persist in old ways; expect different results = Insanity...
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39) From: raymanowen
"...Lucky at 109°17' 0" E, 13°5' 0" N, 6' asl, not so much at 105° 2'=
 13" W,
39° 50' 11" N, 5613' asl."  Opposite side of the globe ! ! -ro
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40) From: Joseph Robertson
So true and well said Ray. The only failure is not to try.
JoeR
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:44 AM,  wrote:
<Snip>
ee
<Snip>
ad
<Snip>
ette
<Snip>
 50' 11"
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
-- =
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41) From: Doug Hoople
"...Lucky at 109°17' 0" E, 13°5' 0" N, 6' asl, not so much at 105° 2'=
 13" W,
39° 50' 11" N, 5613' asl."  Opposite side of the globe ! ! -ro
Reading Lat/Lon, as navigators do, and ignoring the W and N on the first
pass, I found myself wondering what mythical location in the space/time
continuum you were referring to. My eyes focused, the caffeine kicked in,
and it all became clear... none other than the good old Rocky Mountains,
after all.
Made for an interesting flight of fancy while it lasted!
Doug
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42) From: miKe mcKoffee
Usually I'd agree "the only failure is not to try", experimentation being a
good thing, but in this case no way. Attempting to make a shot mixed fresh
roasted fresh ground IMV with LavAzza roasted who knows when in Italy and to
make matters worse pre-ground? The failure in this case was common sense:
trying to get a good shot from packaged pre-ground. At least it should be
consider so for anyone who's been arount this List...
Slave to the Bean Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.NorwestCoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/">http://www.norwestcoffee.com/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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43) From: Joseph Robertson
So true miKe. Kind of follows the sow's ear / silk purse story. Experience
on this list carry's a lot of weight in learning the difference. At least I
would like to think so.
If I had understood the topic here better before I posted .......
JoeR
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 7:47 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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44) From: raymanowen
"Attempting to make a shot mixed fresh roasted fresh ground IMV with LavAzza
roasted who knows when in Italy and to make matters worse pre-ground? The
failure in this case was common sense..."
Sense is common when you happen to possess it.
Not always guilty.
I learned that Friends don't let Friends do that to the exquisite coffee
from Sweet Maria's. Something in the back of my mind told me I had something
extra to back up the quickly vanishing beans in my jar- I saw the LavAzza
brick and forgot about the few beans from the last IMV roast- the first C+ I
ever targeted for an Ethiopian.
I'm going to ring up the list when grinding comes up a little short for a
double? Feel free to throw ripe bananas- I'd love to bake a banana nut loaf
about now.
Maybe I should post under  next time I order filet
mignon at Ivar's in Seattle... Sushi in Osaka in 1968 with Hiroko and her
father, a Sakai City cop, was a real treat. The idea of a fresh catch in
Seattle was veiled- everything was new and exciting after TBI.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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45) From: Allon Stern
On Jun 8, 2009, at 2:59 AM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
I'd plead "Too much blood in my caffeine stream, sir. Won't happen  
again." when the espresso cops pull you over, and hope you get off  
with a warning.
-
allon
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46) From: Doug Hoople
RayO's had a license to pull shots for a very long time. I think he can be
spared the lecture on what should or shouldn't go into his cup. He's a big
boy, and can deal with the consequences. He reported his self-inflicted
suffering in painful enough detail to indicate that he himself knew it to be
richly deserved.
I, for one, found his mishap highly entertaining and refreshingly candid.
Thanks, RayO!
Doug
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:59 PM,  wrote:
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47) From: Joseph Robertson
Same here, thanks Ray.
JR
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
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48) From: John A C Despres
miKe mcK is a Kurmudgeon.
A curmudgeon will step up and do the curmudgeonly thing at the appropriate
time in a properly curmudgeonly manner.
I too, am a curmudgeon. As such, I recognize the fun in miKe's posts.
Have fun, everybody. And RayO, yes, please ring up the list next time.
Someone may jump in with enough time to save the taste buds.
Now go have fun.
John
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Joseph Robertson wrote:
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49) From: Doug Hoople
Jeez, skip the smiley and look what it gets you!
Doug
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 3:38 PM, John A C Despres wrote:
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50) From: John A C Despres
Hard to tell, sometimes, Doug. Sorry I misunderstood.
However, I'm still a curmudgeon.
John
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
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