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Topic: pin hole 'spritzers?' (8 msgs / 288 lines)
1) From: Rbt Tut
I have a new bottomless portafilter w my new Alexia PID
I sometimes get pin hole 'spritzers' about 1/2 way though the shot.
I have some clumping with my k3 and am learning the breakup technique as
outlined on HB
Im assuiming these pin holes are a type of channeling.
thanks
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2) From: james McDougal
Yes, I'd agree. We wouldn't see it without the bottomless portafilter and I
can't tell by taste that it happened. It does seem to be a distribution
problem when it happens to me on my Andreja. If I changed the grind setting
on the Rocky and didn't run a few beans through to clear the coarser grind,
I almost always get spritzing (which can mess up a light colored shirt
quickly). I have only had spritzing once or twice that might have been due
to clumps or something else.
Mac
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Rbt Tut  wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: raymanowen
When you have clumping, how would you know it was the cause of the spritzing
problem? I thought the purpose of establishing the coffee puck in the
espresso portafilter was to create a veritable puck "clump" the size and
shape of the porta filter.
Cupping is the final arbiter in choosing a particular process over another
in preparing coffee  In the preparation of coffee grounds for espresso
brewing, however, the mound of coffee grounds in the porta filter is pressed
down with about 7 - 12 psi pressure in tamping a 58mm filter.
This packing forces the coffee into a disc that corresponds to the exact
shape of the interior of the filter basket. The diameter of the puck expands
against the sides of the filter basket so that no water can bypass the puck
without passing through the coffee grounds disc, infusing and extracting the
nectar.
During the packing and tamping step, it would be virtually impossible to
maintain the integrity of any pre-existing clump of coffee. Correct tamping
produces a near fluid flow of the dry coffee grains to flatten the puck and
expand it into the filter body. Leakage through or around the puck indicates
incorrect tamping pressure or technique. Pressing the mound of coffee into a
new shape and size requires that all coffee particles move slightly with
respect to each other.
When that happens, the integrity of the clump is gone and the packing is
homogenious. I get clumps when grinding into a frothing pitcher. Very few
survive tapping into the porta filter. They've essentially disbanded after
vibro compaction of the filter, and completely disintegrated after the
packing and tamping press. Wobbling the tamper body like a joy stick
probably helps disintegrate the clumps. Maybe 2 - 5s pre infusion does some
good too...
Even the purely axial force direction using a $30 arbor press from a tool
store like Harbor Fright couldn't maintain the clump integrity because of
fluid flow and Poisson's expansion of the puck.
Flour is sifted to remove clumps because they can remain intact during
subsequent mixing and kneading. There's even a limit to mixing and kneading
in most bread making, so time for a gorgeous shot of IMV, Workshop X or RVN
blend if I have to sift the x@#** flour.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect different results - suborn Insanity...
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4) From: Allon Stern
On Jul 22, 2009, at 3:37 AM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>http://www.home-barista.com/weiss-distribution-technique.html"To be honest, everything else is less important when it comes to a  
constant evaluation. Tamp (for example) is not nearly as important as  
everyone seems to think. The goal with your tamping is to preserve  
the distribution and to create a firm enough surface."
I don't know how true that is, but as with anything, results do  
matter, so experiment!
Yesterday I visited a friend's office; they had a UNIC two-group  
machine with some doserless grinder - the grinder had a funnel widget  
with three buttons on top for single, double, or pulse; the grind  
came out with bunches of small clumps, and sure enough, the puck was  
pinholey. I only pulled one shot (I wasn't there as a barista :)
That, of course, was the least of their worries; it seems that they  
don't do enough cleaning; the Illy beans were okay, but I wouldn't  
say it's a great choice, especially if you're going to the lengths of  
putting an espresso bar in your office.
-
allon
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5) From: Derek Bradford
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 4:37 AM,  wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
maintain the integrity of any pre-existing clump of coffee. Correct tamping
<Snip>
This is incorrect.  Clumps that form in the basket after/during dosing can
cause channeling.  Clumps lead to the formation of a non-homogeneous puck
overall--they create a puck with areas of greater and lesser density.  It's
those differences in density that lead to channeling as the water seeks the
easiest path through the puck.
<Snip>
Agreed, so long as we're including dosing and distribution in technique,
while not limiting the leakage to only tamping issues.  There are many
factors that can lead to channeling.
<Snip>
The particles do move slightly with respect to each other, but not
sufficiently to eliminate all traces of clumps.
--Derek
-- 
Every path but your own is the path of fate.  --Thoreau
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6) From: miKe mcKoffee
Stop in Paradise Café sometime and I'll demonstrate how unimportant the t=
amp
really is. Nekkid PF no tamp pull with no spritzing. It does however tend to
make more of a mess of the grouphead. No, no tamp is not the norm for me but
have tried it more than once with no shot problems. This presupposes good PF
distribution. No WDT or other time consuming crap needed...
Slave to the Bean Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIIhttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=">http://www.norwestcoffee.com/PNWGVII.htmSweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/=
 On =
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7) From: Maxwell Heathcott
You presuppose good PF distribution . . . =
Can you tell me how to get good PF distribution?
I'm using a Super Jolly right now.
--mh
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 tamp
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 to
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but
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nt
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re.
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ee.com
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ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
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8) From: Mike Koenig
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