HomeRoast Digest


Topic: coffee tasting kinda? (10 msgs / 274 lines)
1) From: Frank Awbrey
(This will be the third time I have sent this (bounced back both other
times), so hopefully it goes out to the list. I hope it hasn't gone out the
other two times).
I've got a question to throw out to the list (if this is the correct
address) about my coffee tasting. Hopefully, someone can explain what is
happening to my coffee tasting/taste buds. To begin, I do roast with an air
popper. The majority of my roasts lasts 8 to 10 minutes (not bad for an air
popper). I try to roast the beans to Tom's suggestions on his bags. Most of
them seem to be lighter roasts, i.e., from city plus to full city. I use a
temperature probe positioned at the bottom of the popper by the vents, and,
using Tom's temps on his web site (the different temperatures correlating to
degree of roast), I roast until the temps are in the 435 to 445-450*
temperature, depending on the roast. Sometimes I do go into second crack,
but try not to go too far, and usually don't.
I roast 5 to 7 days of beans at one sitting (3 or 4 batches), so rest times
are anywhere from 1 to 5 or 6 days. I grind with a Zass (pretty fine) and
brew with an AeroPress (boil water in the microwave, then immediately brew).
Now, for my question, what I am experiencing is a pretty good flavor of
coffee in my mouth for the first couple of seconds, but, when I swallow the
coffee, the good taste seems to get more of a (not sure how to describe the
word here) bite(?), acidic(?) or something (not good). I don't really think
it is bitterness, but maybe bordering on it?
Is there a different set of taste buds the coffee goes by? Or, does it have
something to do with my roasting/grinding/brewing method?
Sorry for the rather long post, but kind of wanted you to get a general idea
of how I do it. Any answers/comments/suggestions are very welcome, as I
would like to try and find out what's causing this "not good" taste in my
mouth.
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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2) From: Yakster
Frank,
Your message got through!
It sounds like you may have overextracted your coffee.
Try varying your routine with one of these at a time;  a coaser grind
(just how fine is your grind?),  a cooler brew--let the water cool for
several seconds, and see what impact that has on your coffee.
How much coffee are you using in the AP for what size cup?  I used to
use three AP scoops for two six ounce cups but have since cut back to
two AP scoops with very good results (and the homeroast lasts longer
this way)
-Chris
On 7/27/09, Frank Awbrey  wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Dan Zwell
Frank Awbrey wrote:
<Snip>
It's worth a try. I suspect it won't work well unless your grind is 
extremely uniform--if there is any dust, it will not drip quickly enough 
or will require a huge amount of pressure. This huge pressure, in my 
experience, leads to bitter or "sharp" coffee.
-Dan
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4) From: Doug Hoople
It sounds like what you might be tasting is some of the roast-induced
brightness that comes from the shorter air-roasting cycles.
On my iR2, I had a couple of VERY short roasts (5 minutes or so) that left a
really pronounced brightness that set my teeth on edge. That was extreme,
but it alerted me to the phenomenon.
After that, I worked on slower roasts, taking them out well beyond 10
minutes, and the effect diminished substantially.
I've been roasting with HG/DB and taking anywhere from 9 to 12 minutes just
to get to first crack, and the air roast-induced brightness seems to have
disappeared altogether.
You might want to experiment with both short and long roasting cycles to see
if what you're tasting changes. If it gets more pronounced with shorter
roasts and less with longer roasts, then that's probably what you're
tasting.
Apart from that, I wouldn't know what it was.
Doug
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Frank Awbrey  wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Brian Kamnetz
When I used to roast with an air popper (unmodified except for a
switch to the heat element that allowed me to cool right in the
popper) I tried lighter roasts a few times, with poor results. I think
the reason was that if I didn't take the outside of the beans to
second crack, the insides didn't get completed roasted, and I got some
sour grassy notes. Do you notice the same things on the roasts you
take to the first snaps of second?
Brian
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Frank Awbrey wrote:
<Snip>
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6) From: Frank Awbrey
Thx, for the reply. I started doing a little different process with this
morning's cup. I did not boil the water (boils at 200* here). I heated it
until my temp probe read 174*. After the brew, it read 149* (a little cool
for me). Doing this did make the cup feel smoother/silkier in the mouth, and
on swallowing, much less bad flavor (Indian bean--from India).
I use two scoops for about 11-13 oz of water. I had not thought about the
extraction process too much. I pour water in the column, stir for a few
seconds, pour a little more, stir and pour just a touch more, then plunge. I
would imagine total extraction time would be anywhere from one to a minute
and a half. Not a whole lot more time. I may try and cut that time down a
few seconds. Grind is fairly fine. More fine than coarse. I will try a
little coarser tomorrow (providing I roast some this evening as I have about
one cup left).
Do you think what I was describing is over extraction? Never thought about
it that way much.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Yakster  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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7) From: Doug Hoople
I'd be surprised if it was overextraction. Overextraction comes from
a combination of grind, water heat and time of exposure, probably in that
order.
Your exposure time is very short, and so it probably has nothing to do with
it.
For water temperature, you won't find temps that damage the coffee anywhere
below 210F or so (sea level). You're obviously at a different altitude, and
you didn't report the temps from the original tasting that prompted your
observation.
If you grind coarser, take it no further than medium. All grinders, no
matter how good, start producing powder in the coarser range, so a medium
grind will give you your most consistent "coarse" coffee.
I think it's still very likely that the bitter notes you're tasting are
roast artifacts from the quick air-roast cycle, but you'll have to be the
judge of that.
Don't forget to report back here once you've played with a few of these
things.
Doug
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Frank Awbrey wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: dennis true
if you are AP brewing try letting the water cool for 45sec to a min  
before you put it in the AP
ad Alan's instructions you will see he actually recommends a cooler  
temp... he has had every one under the sun do a blind taste and the  
cooler cup always wins out... not sure why but in the AP's case it  
goes against the normal logic...
on a side note, if you are on the road the AP works GREAT with an el  
cheapo coffee maker to heat the water...(perfect temp)
IMHO and as always YMMV (but hey it's worth a shot)
Dennis
(melting away in 120 deg heat at Camp Delta GTMO)
On Jul 27, 2009, at 11:29 PM, Frank Awbrey wrote:
<Snip>
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9) From: Justin Schwarz
although it probably wouldn't produce too much more bitterness short  
rested coffees have been somewhat problematic for me in the AP, try  
with a little longer rest and extraction is improved significantly.
can't wait to drink some yummy panamas listed today!
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10) From: Frank Awbrey
The coffee taste was much better this morning. I have used the AP
exclusively for close to two years now. I seem to be getting away from
earlier brews that I did with it, namely, boiling the water, using more
water in an attempt to try to get "more for my money's worth", which does
lead to a somewhat longer extraction time. I know the extraction time is no
where near the 4 minutes used in the FP. But what I have done this morning
after reading some of your posts is to go back and try what you've
suggested.
This morning, I probably only had about 9 to 10 oz of water instead of the
11 or 12-13 or so I've been trying to drink. I also have backed off on the
microwave time of heating the water by about 30 seconds (1 1/2 minute v 2
minutes). This does put the temp range in the 175 range (about 150* post
plunge). Just doing this has really seemed to help with the bad, almost
after taste(?), that I was dealing with. This morning's cup was much easier
to drink with much milder "after taste", not sure if it is considered
bitterness or not.
I drank my usual two cups this morning. One was the very last two scoops of
about a 6 day roast and my second cup was only about 12 hours rest (roasted
4 batches last night). Both were the same bean (India Kattehollay Estate
Peaberry). My roasts lasted between 8 to 9 minutes with me shutting them off
when my temp probe hit about 446* (at the bottom of the popper chamber). On
a couple of the roasts, I could just hear the beginnings of second crack, I
think.
Anyway, I did enjoy both cups immensely. I have not changed the grind
setting, yet. Wanting to see how these couple of changes work out. So far,
so good, I think. Quite happy now.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Justin Schwarz wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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