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Topic: Is an Anfim Grinder Better Than an Electric (14 msgs / 438 lines)
1) From: Barbara Greenspon
I LOVE mine, which I've had for many many years -- can't even remember  
how many, probably 6, I've replaced the burrs once, and, as I remember  
it, at that time is was the same one that Pasquini was selling under  
its brand name.  I bought it from Sweet Marias.  You're lucky!!
Barbara
On Aug 7, 2009, at 1:35 AM, Bob Hazen wrote:
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2) From: raymanowen
The test of any grinder is, "Does it generate the grounds with which you
want to brew?"
Is that all it generates? Any grounds of smaller or larger size than you
want will brew differently than you think, yielding a miserable effluent
from the brewer.
But that's not the fault of brewer you're using. It's The Grinder, or, in
the case of the neat, shiny $149 Solis with comical burrs, the burrs and
replacements that were just so much scrap metal.
A few paltry dollars for a grinder that was ruining the labors of others far
away, and my palate? Plus, miKe had sent me some gorgeous Kona roast. Wasn't
about to obliterate that in my balky grinder.
No reference to the Anfim, but what a Hell of a "Thank You" to the others
that preceded your receiving the fruitage of their labors by treating the
roast to a Grind Randomizer.
Why buy the best beans on the planet and roast very carefully, if their
further treatment is just "Good Enough?"
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect different results - suborn Insanity...
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3) From: Justin Schwarz
Good solid grinder, I bought one from our hosts 7 or so years ago no  
real problems.
-Justin
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4) From: Bob Hazen
Ray,
I often see "Got Grinder?" at the end of your posts.  Well now I have proved 
to myself that as you and others have said, skimping on the grinder is 
indeed folly.  To "Got Grinder?" I can now say "Yep."
I had long thought my MDF was doing ok.  I could adjust it so that my coffee 
was on the verge of overextraction.  I would just keep dialling down the 
size until I hit that bitter overextraction taste.  Bumping the size back up 
one notch took away the bitter taste and I felt I had optimum extraction. 
Still, I could see the dust.  If I put some grounds in a plastic bag and 
shook it/rubbed it I'd see the brownish stain of coffee dust.  Same when I 
rubbed grinds between my finger tips.  I figured this was normal and since I 
was at optimum extraction, why worry?  Still the nagging feeling that I was 
missing something kept at me.  I've been thinking of Mazzers and Macaps. 
Then magically an electric chainsaw morphed into an Anfim.
I haven't tried the Anfim on espresso yet, just a few pots of drip.  I first 
adjusted it to about the same coarsness I've been using with the MDF.  The 
coffee tasted good as usual.  However, I noticed far less dust.  I then 
found I was able to dial down the grind (for drip) to about that which I'd 
been using for espresso with the MDF.  Evidently the MDF generated enough 
dust to limit how fine my espresso grind could go and not choke my machine. 
As for dust, intentional dust that is, I'm looking forward to experimenting 
with Turkish coffee.  The Anfim at its minimum setting produces pure dust! 
I can see my fingerprints when I pinch some between my fingertips.  I should 
note that in cleaning the Anfim, the burrs are apparently well used.  They 
don't seem as sharp as the new ones in my MDF, yet they Anfim outperforms 
the MDF.  It will be interesting to see the effects of a new burr set.
Having gotten rather buzzed on good coffee, I quit my tests.  I can't bring 
myself to slurp and spit like a professional cupper. 
ITISPRETTYCLEARTOMYWHYTHEYSPITBECAUSEITHINKIHAVEHADTOOMUCHCOFFEE!!!!!!
Today drip, tomorrow Espresso!
Bob
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5) From: Doug Hoople
"Any grounds of smaller or larger size than you want will brew differently
than you think, yielding a miserable effluent from the brewer."
Always with the false booleans, RayO. It's a spectrum, not a boolean, and
when you're correcting problems by replacing a good grinder with a great
grinder, you've already gotten 90% of the way there. It's passable coffee,
not "miserable effluent."
"Good enough" can be "good enough."
No question that a great grinder will make your coffee better, especially
when you're making espresso.
But let's not overstate the advantages by trying to dramatize a false
negative.
"Miserable effluent" indeed.
Doug
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:00 PM,  wrote:
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6) From: Allon Stern
...but back to the question at hand.
I'd say that for felling a tree, the Anfim grinder will lose, even  
with a fresh set of burrs.
-
allon
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7) From: Mike Koenig
And the grind from the chainsaw may be a bit to coarse for espresso..
--mike
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Allon Stern  wrote:
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8) From: raymanowen
["Good enough" can be "good enough."]
Challenger,  O-rings,  Good enough in theory and on paper, but they lit the
Damn thing off.
"Few degrees too cool to launch? Let's get this show on the road. They'll be
hotter than blue Blazes in a second. Time is money. Waiting is silly..."
Of course, if you paid for dinner and coffee, or your customers do, and
return, it really was "good enough."
I stopped at a new *Egg & I* breakfast restaurant to sample their coffee.
They had French roast and Costa Rica coffee, maybe something else too.
"Everybody likes the French roast- "
"I'll have a cup of the Costa Rica, please." Oooh- Way beyond Good enough
and it was late in their day.
After about a month, I think I could imagine the paper filters layered on
top of the brewer, ready to go with a batch of grounds in each filter. I
sure hope it never got too busy for them to keep up, with the fresh coffee
grounds waiting each morning. Early morning or afternoon, it was the same.
 They probably fancied it was Good enough, or they wouldn't have done that.
Their chef probably thought the food ingredients were fresh enough, too.
I'll never know.
At a breakfast place, coffee is King. Why would the whole menu not follow
their bellwether drink? How many puddles of water do you have to see before
you realize the Atlantic isn't rising, Titanic is sinking?
Maybe I can send the Email this time. Just noticed a couple didn't launch.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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9) From: raymanowen
[...to slurp and spit like a professional cupper.]
Makes me happy I'm no kind of professional having to do with coffee. Testing
coffee in some way other than how I enjoy it is a non sequitur. Already been
tested. All I have to do is enjoy.
Just for grins and to put the water experts to the test once more, I ran my
insanely short anecdotal water test again, in prep for a Cacao Latte. In the
lab, the term "Water" never refers to the stuff coming out of the tap. If
your reading has convinced you that pure H2O, with nothing dissolved in it,
will alter the flavor of your excellent roasted coffee beans, be glad the
pharmacist uses dist H2O, and so did my 1.5 ton batteries
In short, I recently had the last few shots of Monkey blend, roasted just
short of V, (Spent relatively short time at 462° F) the beans had a semi
gloss appearance after being almost flat for weeks. What a roast that was!
The longer they rested, the better by far they got. From an initial dislike
(< 1 week), I left them alone for quite a while. Then:
I brewed the last shots of the Monkey blend roast with distilled water in
the Depresso (De-limed Capresso). Couple of blanks to flush, filter disc on
top of the puck to prevent grounds migration up into the group passages
during the pre-infusion pause. A Big Door to Flavor was flung wide open!
Incomparable, this shot wasn't >As Good As< anything. I've never tasted
anything like it. It blew my Celtic Critic away too, when I brewed her Cacao
Latte after my shot.
There probably are reasons why the distilled water polluted these espresso
drinks. And I'm going to try some further corruption sometime, by adding
some fresh vanilla bean fragments when I micro foam the milk/ noir chocolate
and sugar.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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10) From: Doug Hoople
["Good enough" can be "good enough."]
"Challenger,  O-rings,  Good enough in theory and on paper, but they lit the
Damn thing off."
Sorry, RayO, I don't buy it.
By your definition, anything that's been ground in anything less than your
Super Jolly will be "miserable effluent," typical, irrational, meaningless,
self-inflating hyperbole.
By your definition, then, there's no difference between:
   - day-old percolator coffee brewed from a can of pre-ground supermarket
   robusta that's been sitting open on a shelf for 6 months, on the one hand,
   and
   - fresh-brewed glass-rod vacpot coffee brewed in filtered 199F water,
   from a 3-day rested, perfectly roasted C+ IMV, ground at medium grind in a
   Virtuoso, on the other.
I'd agree that the first of the two qualifies for "miserable effluent." I'd
disagree that the second fits in the same category as the first.
I'd also disagree that the only thing required of the second to take it from
the category of "miserable effluent" to the category of "RayO's sublime
daily" is a trip through your Super Jolly.
You're like the statistician RayO, who sets the lower threshold for the bar
chart at 90%, and gets crazy at the massive difference between 90% and 91%.
If you let the lower threshold for the bar chart at 0 instead of 90%,
there'd be very little difference between 90% and 91%.
Not only that, you're telling us that those of us who are at 89% are no
better thatn the rotton lot at 23%, because we're all below your lowest
representational threshold.
The claim that the "grinder's the thing" is a very valid claim, especially
for espresso. You devalue the currency of that claim, RayO, when you
hyperinflate the difference between 90% and 91%.
Doug
On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:22 PM,  wrote:
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11) From: Doug Hoople
Sorry, not to be mean, but I guess I'm on a roll.
The grinder is a big deal, but it's not everything.
If I'm not mistaken, the highly-prized Super Jolly is no guarantee of great
coffee, nor is any grinder by itself.
If I recall correctly, many of the "refurbished" Super Jolly grinders were
retired from the *$ fleet. Would it be incorrect to assume that, given their
use of a superior grinder, that *$ is not the "miserable effluent" of RayO's
claims, but is actually qualified, by virtue of its trip through a Super
Jolly, to be called "RayO's sublime daily"?
These claims about grinders CAN and sometimes DO get carried a little far.
Got good beans?
Got good roast?
Got good water?
Got clean coffee pot?
Got good coffee pot?
Got good water temps?
Got good brewing method?
Got freshly-ground beans?
Got good measuring?
Got grinder?
Doug
On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
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12) From: Ross Landrum
Thanks Doug.  Very well said.  Maybe RayO should boycott SM until they stop
selling inferior grinders which , according to Ray, is an insult to the
growers of all that great coffee. And comparing coffee grinders to
Challenger O-rings is absurd.
Ross
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ross Landrum
ralandrum
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13) From: denis bordeleau
hi mr liguori, this is a very good observation on the benefits of all these=
 hi-tech pursuing their Grail Quest for  the perfection and losing contac=
t with the basics on their way.       thanks, that's refreshing=
      denis
--- En date de : Mer, 19.8.09, David Liguori  a éc=
rit :
De: David Liguori 
Objet: Re: [Homeroast] Is an Anfim Grinder Better Than an Electric Chainsaw?
À: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list=
,  available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: mercredi 19 Août 2009, 15 h 34
raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
it the
<Snip>
Jeez, RayoO, nobody's going to die from coffee not deliberately poisoned, n=
o matter how miserable!
BTW Richard Feynman, greatest living physicist in theory at the time, calle=
d that one ("Look, you put the o-ring in cold water, it gets stiff") while =
all the engineers were covering ass.
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Obtenez l'adresse de courriel parfaite: @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com. =
Obtenez votre nouvelle adresse maintenant à http://cf.new.mail.yahoo.com=/addresses.
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14) From: raymanowen
I always liked to crunch whole beans. The vacuum brewed coffee was too weak
and hot to suit me, then I got a commercial drip pot. Boyer set the boiler
thermostat to 185° F. Bill made the offhand comment that you could almost
brew a second time on the same grounds, but I never made the connection that
you could just brew longer and get so much more flavor.
Then I learned that hotter was better. The drip brewed coffee was a lot
closer to the taste of the raw bean crunch, but I had no clue that a couple
of MINOR changes could have boosted the flavor so much.
About the time miKe sent me a pound of his Kona beans, I was getting the
idea that comical burr grinders were just a marketing ploy, since the two
burrs are so far mismatched in size. [The inner burr has to be much smaller]
That wasn't the reason I was getting the massive fines in all grinding
settings, the outer burrs were poorly fabricated. The rough-cut burr would
scratch a lot of fines out of all the beans it touched. But that's nothing
new, it just couldn't be the grinder used on miKe's fine beans.
His beans and roast profile represented so much care and attention to detail
that I resolved not to allow the Point Of Sale (POS) grinder to touch them
after the first time. Enter the Big, Ugly, Fat  (BUFF) grinder. Not
purchased new, it was just a tiny baby step beyond the escalating POS, for
which I found a good home.
The Mazzer burrs now make significant fines, but they don't seem to migrate
through the packed coffee in the espresso filter. The bottom of my glass
demi (GD) is pristine after a shot.
Maybe I have to drop $60 on another set of burrs. That will be the only
expense in four (4) years. Could I get good shots all the time, as in No
Sink Shots? (NOSS) Stand by for news. This should be good. (Forgot- I just
bought some more silver at the dentist this morning)
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
-- =
Persist in old ways; expect different results - suborn Insanity...
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