HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Do you cull out defective green beans? (28 msgs / 647 lines)
1) From: Bill S.
Would you share your green bean culling practices with the group?
I have been in the habit of looking for, and removing:
a)  the very-rare rock;
b)  beans which are totally black;
c)  beans with a pin-hole, if it's black around the pin-hole;
d)  broken beans if it's gone black at the break
e)  beans that I just don't like (very rare, I get along with most beans)
In most SM offerings I cull between 0 and 13 beans from a 1/2# roast, with
an average of 3 beans.
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2) From: Derek Bradford
I think what you do is fairly similar to what I do.  I tend to pick over the
washed beans more than the dry processed, since some of that dry-process
goodness/wildness comes from the funkiness of the beans.  Generally I pick
them over (fairly coarsely; I don't give it much time) before I roast, and
then pick out the quakers and and anything I might have missed as I cool the
beans.  I don't pull out may beans, and the majority of what I cull are
quakers.
--Derek
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Bill S.  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Every path but your own is the path of fate.  --Thoreau
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3) From: Tom Ulmer
It seems I get along with fewer beans than you... and I thought I was an
accommodating fellow. 
I am partial to pulp and natural processed beans and would add the following
to pre-roast:
f) having any odd blue-green color 
g) squashed 
h) malformed
i) going to black
j) light green or whitish
k) any broken
Post-roast gets the light colored beans.
I roast 12 ounces by volume and with the exception of Arabian coffees I
typically cull 3-9. Out of five pounds of Yemeni coffee there's always 3-5
rocks or hard clay.

4) From: Bart Van Dyken
I inspect and cull imperfect beans quite aggressively. I use all the
criteria that you mention and a few additional criteria:
            All beans with visual insect damage 
            All yellow or white beans
            All beans that fluoresce more than 50% of their surface area
white in black light.
            All beans that fluoresce orange or red under black light.
            All beans that show contrast defects under black light (
translucence with dark spots)
For what it is worth Black light fluoresces any beans that have been exposed
to organic fluids and some toxic molds regardless of their source (vendor).
Using these criteria I reject between 10 and 80 beans from a 300+ gram batch
to get a final batch weight of 300 Grams. That translates to 1 to 8 grams
depending on the coffee. A good average is about 50 beans but this can
fluctuate widely by origin and cleaning, drying, packaging and shipping
processes to which the beans have been exposed prior to your inspection. The
issue of mold detection and toxicology is a very controversial issue.
Ochratoxin and aflatoxin are the worst possible contaminants of concern and
carry serious health risks. Aflatoxin is rare in coffee but does occur.
Italy has import restrictions based on ochratoxin contamination in coffee
and other nations are considering similar restrictions. These two molds are
potential killers if the exposure and dosage are sufficient. Other molds
have less defined negative health impacts, but can present long term
cumulative effects on certain internal organs. While the scientific evidence
is sparce and incomplete, I prefer to be on the safe side of this question
based on my own experience and reading. It has been proven that most molds
and spores survive typical coffee roasting temperature exposure. That is why
I also use black light inspection based sorting on all my green coffee prior
to roasting
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5) From: Tim TenClay
Wow... I just try to catch any sticks and stones that are easily
visible.....
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Bart Van Dyken wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
The content of this e-mail may be private or of confidential nature.
Do not forward without permission of the original author.
--
Rev. Tim TenClay, NATA #253
Dunningville Reformed Church (www.dunningville.org)
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6) From: Andy Thomas
I do very little culling. Only cull the very occasional black or underdevel=
oped beans. It has been a very long time since I've found a rock or other n=
on-coffee material.
From: Bill S. 
To: Coffee SM blog 
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 10:44:40 AM
Subject: [Homeroast] Do you cull out defective green beans?
Would you share your green bean culling practices with the group?
I have been in the habit of looking for, and removing:
a)  the very-rare rock;
b)  beans which are totally black;
c)  beans with a pin-hole, if it's black around the pin-hole;
d)  broken beans if it's gone black at the break
e)  beans that I just don't like (very rare, I get along with most beans)
In most SM offerings I cull between 0 and 13 beans from a 1/2# roast, with
an average of 3 beans.
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      =
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7) From: Joe Scarborough
I must not be doing it right...I've never seen a rock or a black bean...or a
floater...could be that I'm getting quality product from SM (Sweet
Marias)... ;-)
Joe Scarborough
xxx-xxx-xxxx
Sent from Pasadena, TX, United States
Joan Crawford
- "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I earn, I
spend."
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8) From: Yakster
Wow,
I'm no where near as vigilant as you are, but I cull all the broken, insect
damaged, or discolored beans pre-roast and quakers post-roast.  I also shake
them in the Behmor drum (or small grid drum) pre-roast to get any smalls to
fall through.
Culling is a frustrating process as it is time consuming and always puts me
in the wrong frame of mind for my roast... focusing instead on the few
defects rather then all the good beans that will be roasted.  That being
said, the UV light might make the process faster rather then more tedious, I
think I'm going to give that a try.  It'll also come in handy looking for
any accidents from the dogs too boot.
Thanks for the detailed information.
Does anyone ever intentionally roast up the defects to see what flavors
they'd impart to a roast?  I've been bagging my defects and they're starting
to pile up, enough for a batch.  Doesn't sound very tempting, but maybe if
all the beans that fluoresce were eliminated, it might prove interesting.  I
have donated some of these to my daughter for art projects which was a good
use.
-Chris
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Bart Van Dyken wrote:
<Snip>
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9) From: Rich
I believe you and I have the same problem, no rocks, bugs, bug parts, 
sticks, leaves, foreign seeds, black or white beans, or a floater.
We are clearly doing something wrong...  This is clearly a serious lack 
of the proper level of AR.
Joe Scarborough wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Yakster
Try the Moka Kadir blend if you want experience culling rocks or mud
balls, as well as teeney tiny peaberries too small for the small grid
drum of the Behmor.
-Chris
On 9/7/09, Rich  wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: JanoMac
Same here! 2 rocks (both from Ethiopians; the 1st in the famed Harar Horse
Lot #30) in 4 years (well over a hundred pounds) and maybe 4 or 5 black
beans, a dozen or so broken with necrosis or damage at the beak. A few
incompletely developed beans...but man, I haven't anywhere near the need to
pull out 6 to a dozen seeds per 1/2 to 1-cup batch! This stuff -- even from
the Yemeni and Ethiopian dry, inconsistently sized lots -- is clean and
almost defect free.
Kirk
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Rich  wrote:
<Snip>
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12) From: John A C Despres
I have found small stones that match bean size and I usually find them after
roasting.
Other than the stones, I don't cull anything. Oh, I found a stick once.
John
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Yakster  wrote:
<Snip>
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13) From: raymanowen
"Black light fluoresces any beans that have been exposed to organic fluids
and some toxic molds regardless of their source "
Boy! The feline-cycled stuff must light up like the harvest full moon
rising. *$ could roast all of mine. But SM knows never to send me any. We've
had cats- even had a Jaguar. All purred, were pretty nimble. When the fuzzy
ones got sick, I knew they could Not be my coffee processing plants.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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14) From: Seth Grandeau
I'd be curious to know if these molds can survive the roasting process.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 3:53 AM,  wrote:
<Snip>
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15) From: Tom Ulmer
Do you pay extra for that service?
I roasted 4 coffees and 5 twelve 1.5 cup batches last evening. The 2
Brasillian coffees had 5 culls between them. Organic Bugisu was the chosen
double roast and had a total of 41 culls. The Yemeni coffee had 52 culls, 1
rock, and 2 dirt clods from a single 1.5 cup batch. If I'd cleaned the
Yemeni to the Brasillian standard I would have easily reduced it by half.

16) From: Bob Hazen
Oh man, Ray.  You caught me by surprise with that one.  My morning cup of 
Guat nearly became a fine mist directed at my computer screen!  Fortunately, 
I only suffered a dribble of Guat on my chin.  I'll bet that "feline-cycled 
stuff" glows, allright.
Bob
<Snip>
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17) From: Allon Stern
On Sep 5, 2009, at 4:23 PM, Bart Van Dyken wrote:
<Snip>
On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:25 AM, Seth Grandeau wrote:
<Snip>
I would bet the issue is not the survival of the molds, but of the  
toxins that they create, some of which which are reduced in the  
roasting process, but not eliminated.
One toxin Bart mentioned is aflatoxin, which is excreted by the fungus  
Aspergillus. Oddly, the diterpenes cafestol and kahweol may be  
protective against the effects of aflatoxin:http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/8/1369Note that decaffeinated coffees tend to lose some protection against  
aflatoxin production.http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119599963/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12452679
Ochratoxin is a different matter.http://www.springerlink.com/content/p52450564uh5l731/Yum!
-
allon
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18) From: Jim Graf
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Bart Van Dyken wrote:
<Snip>
A little knowledge is said to be dangerous, but apparently a lot of
knowledge is crippling.
If you look up the phrase "Picking fly shit out of the pepper", this could
be the definition.
-jim
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19) From: Bill S.
Derek,
Thanks for sharing..
Bill
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Derek Bradford wrote:
<Snip>
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20) From: michael brown
I usually pick through the beans before and after the roast looking for def=
ects unless it's a Yemen.  If i picked out all the defects in the Yemen's i=
'd end up with half the amount that i purchased.  When i first started roas=
ting Yemen's i was shocked at the appearance.  But i've come to LOVE Yemen'=
s and try to always have some in stock.  When i give Yemen coffees as gifts=
 i tell people, "They're not the prettiest looking beans, but the taste wil=
l blow you away!"  =
Michael B
in b'ham, AL
<Snip>
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rote:
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ick
<Snip>
and
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ans)
<Snip>
ffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on=
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21) From: Bill S.
Thank you, all, for sharing,
I learned a lot, and really enjoyed the posts (feline-cycled, etc)
We are a diverse group, even in this mundane task..
Its just something else to think about if you are ever at a Starbucks or
McDonalds, etc...
BillS.
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Bart Van Dyken wrote:
<Snip>
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22) From: Yakster
Yesterday morning, I culled about 5 defects and one small, black, flinty
looking rock from about 12 oz of Guatemala Huehuetenango Finca La Maravilla.
The rock was about one quarter the size of the coffee beans and I'm glad
that I caught it.
I ordered a UV flashlight for more extensive inspections (and detecting pet
accidents), but it seems to have gotten lost in the post.
-Chris
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23) From: raymanowen
"... just something else to think about if you are ever at a Starbucks or
McDonalds..."
First, I would have to be driving by out front, cursing the misfortune of my
flat tire or transmission failure for my being there rather than continuing
past. -ro
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect different results - suborn Insanity...
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24) From: Yakster
Bart,
I picked up a UV flashlight from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Professional-UV-Inspection-Flashlight-Ultraviolet/dp/B0013E3XVU/) but am having trouble
knowing what to do with it, besides playing with it with the kids.
When I shine it on greens, I'll notice that it's easier to pick up the
normal defects I cull (insect bores, black spots) because of the increased
contrast, but a lot of the beans seem to fluoresce or shine when they don't
have much chaff or silverskin coating so I'm not sure I'm seeing something
to worry about or just shiny beans.
I'll have to re-read your post when I'm inspecting, but if you have any more
advice regarding this, I'm all ears.
Once I got the flashlight and showed it to my daughter, I noticed that she
has an invisible ink pen she picked up somewhere that is a one light UV
flashlight built into the cap.  I was flabbergasted and the coincidence.
Now I'll have to make up some invisible ink so I can send secret messages to
my daughter.
-Chris
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Bart Van Dyken wrote:
<Snip>
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25) From: Ray Tolar
Don't you want the Black light one below the one bought ??I think I will
order it  Ray *18%* buy
LED flashlights 395 nM Blacklight 3 AA 51
UV
$17.50
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Yakster  wrote:
<Snip>
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26) From: raymanowen
"I picked up a UV flashlight from Amazon..."
I saw some LED's on the 'Bay fairly cheap. I love to play around, so I got a
mess of them, including some fairly high intensity U-V, I-R, blue, white,
etc. LED's. The clear white ones are above 5000K so really white.
Really surprised my daughter when the U-V back light lit up the stripe in
the $20 bills. Retail stores pay lots more than a few cents for their U-V
fraud detector back lights.
No sense lighting up some Lapin "coffee beans."  Would taste less like
coffee than even McDreck or Charbucks. Heliotrope coffee beans?
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
Got grinder?
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27) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<Snip>
The light has limited use, and if you don't know what you are looking 
for it might be rather useless. It works on dry-process coffees with 
drying defects or mold issues. But these are things you can see 
without the light, or you will see when it roasts. Picking our 
quakers post-roast is the easiest way to remove defects and improve 
the cup on dp coffees. but if you are overzealous in culling out 
light beans you will actually harm the cup quality more than help 
it...
my .02 cents...
-- 
-Tom
"Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting
               Thompson & Maria -http://www.sweetmarias.com     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
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28) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
Ok Tom, but YOUR .02 cents worth preinflation adjusted is actually worth
more like $20 in coffeedom:-)
What a minute! You REALLY short changed yourself. .02 cents, that's only
2/100 of a penny! 
So I guess I'll need to revise the inflationary opinion index resultant. So
properly applying the appropratie 1000 factor comes out to your 20 cents
worth:-)
Slave to the Bean Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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