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Topic: Weird roasting results with Behmor this weekend (21 msgs / 481 lines)
1) From: Seth Grandeau
I think my Behmor (or my voltage) has always been a little bit off.  an 8 oz
batch at P1 normally takes 13-14 minutes to hit first crack and a 12 oz
batch takes 15-16.  I've always worked around this by using the 1 lb setting
and always roasting less than a full lb (either 8 oz or 12 oz are my normal
roasts).
I was cleaning my self-cleaning oven this weekend and figured that I would
roast at the same time.  I roast with the Behmor on the glass cooktop and
the cooktop heats up while the oven's cleaning cycle runs.  I figured this
would help the roasts along, by "pre-heating" my Behmor.  It was very warm,
but not too hot to touch.  I was roasting 12 oz batches.  I set P1, B, ++,
for a 20:30 minute cycle (max time for P1).  My first roast, which started
when I started the oven clean cycle took a very normal (for me) 15:20 to hit
1st crack.  By the time I started the 2nd roast, the stove top had heated
up.  This started to hit 1st crack just after 20 minutes and just barely got
to City (and I may have to re-roast it, I'm letting it rest now).  My 3rd
roast did not hit 1st crack at all, through the full 20:30 cycle.  After
everything cooled down (including the stove), I re-roasted the 3rd batch and
it hit 1st and I took it to a FC roast.
I'm very consistent about cleaning the Behmor, using Simple Green before
each empty cleaning cycle (every 5th roast).  I always make sure the back
right side, where the sensor hides, is kept very clean.  Do you think this
was due to all the ambient heat from the my oven messing with the sensor or
does it mean it's time to give Behmor support a call?  I probably won't
roast again until next weekend, so no experimenting until then.
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2) From: Mike Chester
Was the Behmor plugged into the outlet on the stove?  The self cleaning 
cycle draws a lot of current and an outlet on that circuit would probably 
show a substantial voltage drop.  If it was in a different outlet, your 
whole house may be experiencing a voltage drop due to the stove cleaning 
cycle or the heat affected the heat sensor in the Behmor.  Without taking 
voltage readings, I can only speculate.  Run the Behmor normally, without 
the stove on clean and see if it goes back to normal operation.  If so, 
don't use it during a stove cleaning.  If something does not work correctly 
under certain conditions, the easiest solution is to not use it under those 
conditions.  ( "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."  "Well then don't do 
that.")  
Mike Chester

3) From: Rich
I would suspect it was a consequence of the hot stove top.
Seth Grandeau wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: Seth Grandeau
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
Separate outlet, which I have verified is on a separate circuit from the one
that powers the electric stove.
<Snip>
I didn't realize that the cleaning cycle could cause a voltage drop across
the whole house, but it does make sense.
<Snip>
I'll test that this weekend.  Hopefully cleaning the self cleaning oven will
not become a regular activity.  Thanks for the suggestions.
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5) From: Brad Baker
IME Behmor tech support is exceptionally responsive.  Even if you want
to merely discuss the issue.
-- 
---  b r a d  b a k e r  ---\\
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6) From: Jim Anderson
I would also suspect the voltage. Get an inexpensive digital volt meter at
Radio Shack and probe the unused portion of the duplex outlet that the
Behmor is plugged into and leave it on while the roaster is running. Then
start the cleaning cycle of the oven. I think the Behmor is designed to work
at 116v. The cleaning cycle of your oven could be dragging down the voltage
and this will extend your roast times.
Jim
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7) From: Mike Chester

8) From: Rich
I think you will find that the problem was caused by having the Behmor 
on the stove during a cleaning cycle and the manual recommends a 30 
minute minimum time between multiple roasts to allow the sensors and 
structure to return to ambient.
 From your original post I get the impression that these roasts were all 
back to back with no appreciable cool down time in between.
If the range cleaning cycle is causing a whole house voltage drop that 
is significant to the Behmor you would be seeing your lights dim when 
the range cleaning elements switch on.  I do not think voltage is your 
problem as the problem became progressively severe as the roasting 
session progressed.  Usually a voltage drop will be consistent with the 
applied load and not increase over time under most conditions.  If it 
does then you need an electrician stat.
Mike Chester wrote:
<Snip>
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9) From: Mike Chester
I agree with Rich that what he described is much more likely to be the 
problem than the low voltage I described.  While it is possible, it is quite 
unlikely. I was describing the worst case scenario.  It still would be 
helpful to measure your outlet voltage with the machine off and with it on 
full.
Mike

10) From: Seth Grandeau
The first two roasts were back-to-back (and I fully admit, I must not have
read the manual that thoroughly, as I do not remember the 30 minutes
recommendation).  The third roast did have the 1/2 hour of cooldown and it
was the least roasted after 20:30.  Also, I have done back-to-back roasts
before, without this problem.
I'll report more after this weekend, when I do some more roasting.  I'll
also look into getting a voltage meter.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: raymanowen
"The self cleaning cycle draws a lot of current and an outlet on that
circuit would probably show a substantial voltage drop."
I think the self-cleaning cycle doesn't use any more power than normal
baking or broiling heaters. The thermostat turns the heater On and Off, and
it's set at a higher temperature for self-cleaning. The higher temperature
(~900 F ) influence on the stove surface during the cleaning cycle has a
large effect on roasters operating on the range.
When the surface elements of the range are turned On - Off, they also load -
unload the power legs of the incoming electric power, but no load on the
wimpy neutral leg.
Every receptacle uses one or both of the two legs, and the neutral. If there
are equal loads to neutral on each of the two legs, the neutral current is
nearly Zero.
Set up your roasting bench with two Behmor roasters. Be the first on your
block with a balanced electric load.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Eschew roasting on a hot cooker without a skillet.
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12) From: Yakster
I picked up a kill-a-watt pretty reasonably at Costco that measures
voltage, current, watts, KWH, P.F. Etc and goes inline.
You can also use it to measure your other appliances.
I use this to look at Watts or current, a true RMS Fluke 87 to log the
lowest voltage, and a Fluke 8060 with a temperature adapter to log ET.
I already owned the voltmeters, I wouldn't recommend purchasing them
just for the Behmor.
I think it's quite possibly a combination of volts as well as the heat
tricking the thermocouple.
Sometimes the voltage drop problem can go past your meter and be part
of a loaded grid.  One reason I roast at night on hot days even though
we don't have A/C. I remember a site in Guasti (near Ontario, Calif)
that measured about 90 VAC in the summer that needed a power
conditioner to raise the voltage.
-Chris
On 9/17/09, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
<Snip>
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13) From: Yakster
Kill-A-Watt EZ P3.  I want to say it was around $30.
-Chris
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Yakster  wrote:
<Snip>
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14) From: Mike Chester
The self clean cycles I have seen turn on all of the elements to get more =
heat quicker.  This includes the bottom element and the broiler, and on my =
stove also the pure convection element and convection fan.  Most stoves =
don't have that element, however.
Mike Chester

15) From: Alchemist John
Everyone is talking voltage here, but what absolutely jumps out at me 
here is that you were using the Behmor in a condition that mimicked a 
very hot day - specifically a condition Behmor  is known to have an issue with.
In lieu of 'pre-heating' and helping the roast along, what I 
completely suspect is your issue is that the cooling fan is drawing 
warm air into the roaster and making the roaster think it is hotter 
than it truly is since the thermistor is not cooling as well as it 
does under 'normal' conditions.  In that each roast took longer and 
longer fits this pattern as the whole body of the roaster kept 
getting warmer and warmer.
In my opinion, it was the self cleaning cycle that caused this - just 
not the power issue - it was the heat given off that caused the 
problem.  So, yes to your question.  The heat from the oven did 
indeed 'mess' with the 'sensor'.
At 05:46 AM 9/14/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Hand Grinding, Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/Homeroast mailing list
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16) From: Ira
At 05:12 PM 9/17/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
Occasionally under 20 with free shipping at Newegg.com
Ira
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17) From: Seth Grandeau
This weekend's roasting was textbook.  Without the stove in self-clean, all
roasts took their normally expected times and the roasts are all resting
comfortably. :)
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Alchemist John
wrote:
<Snip>
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18) From: Floyd Lozano
I've always had issues with my Behmor being able to roast a full pound of
coffee on my 'coffee roasting circuit' - the max was more like 12oz.   A few
weeks ago, I decided to buy a variac that is pretty much the same one that
SM used to sell.  What.  A.  Difference.  I can now roast a full lb with
many minutes left to spare in the cycle (example: 1st crack at 13 minutes vs
17 min, P1, 1LB, Ethiopian Sidamo coffees).  I set the variac to 115.
-F
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Alchemist John
wrote:
<Snip>
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19) From: Ira
At 08:12 AM 9/21/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
So, what was your voltage with the Behmor off and what was the 
voltage with the elements on. Knowing that, we can consider if a 
variac would be useful for the rest of us.  Or did you just set the 
variac to 115% and you have no idea about the voltage?
Ira
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20) From: Justin Marquez
Jim - When is that 116 V measured?  I typically see 121 V before the unit is
started, about 115-116 during the first 7-1/2 mins, then about 114 whenever
the heater is on and the smoke supressor is running, too.
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Jim Anderson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
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21) From: Jim Anderson
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
Justin,
I have long ago lost my original manual for the Behmor, but as I recall the
roast times and profiles on the machine were developed using a line voltage
of 116. I am sure someone will chime in if I am wrong.
What I have been doing is plugging an AC volt meter into the unused half of
the duplex outlet that I use when roasting. I got into the habit of checking
the voltage before roasting as it used to really dip during the summer when
folks in the neighborhood were running their air conditioning. I found that
with a starting voltage of around 115 would actually be in the 110 or less
range when the heater in the Behmor kicked on and this would extend the
roast times to the point that I under roasted a few batches.
For some reason the line voltage has been much more stable this year and I
normally see +120 and under load it hovers in the 118 range. No problem
hitting second crack now.
Jim
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