HomeRoast Digest


Topic: breakthrough - glass-filter vacpot (20 msgs / 563 lines)
1) From: Doug Hoople
Hi All,
I'm really excited, because I've just put my finger on a foolproof technique
for getting consistent results from my vacpot.
C'mon, don't roll your eyes!!! :)
I know I've been yammering on about this for months.
But I think I'm really onto something. I documented it in the 'settling
patterns' thread on the forum, but the gist of it is this:
To keep the fines from clogging the glass filter, just before turning off
the burner to start the drawdown, turn the burner up to induce a high level
of turbulence in the funnel.
What I think happens is that the fines respond more vigorously to the
turbulence and get driven higher in the funnel, giving the boulders a
fighting chance of getting to the filter first. This is, in fact, precisely
the opposite of the vortex effect, in which the fines get driven down to the
filter first.
Whatever the reason, the "thrust" of turbulence right at the end produces
predictable drawdowns and appears to eliminate altogether the clogging
produced by fines reading the filter early. And, because it's right at the
end, the rise in temperature is limited and remains well within the desired
range.
Whatever else you have in your procedure, this will still work. My guess is
that it will even work with grinders that produce a lot of fines, so you can
choose a grind for its flavor properties and not for its mechanical
properties. I'll have to experiment more to see if that's really true.
But the results have been pretty amazing so far. Two pots in a row, both of
them producing great coffee! In a year of brewing coffee, I haven't been
able to produce as consistently as that.
What's in my cup? Bali Blue Krishna Kintimani, a batch I roasted 8 days ago.
It was too dark, roasting error, and I dislike the cup I was getting, so I
relegated them to my grinding experiments bin. Didn't think it would taste
any good. But, with dark roasts, sometimes there's a sweetness that comes
through that makes them appealing. And that sweetness is singing a gigantic
opera aria at the moment! I'm pretty sure it's in the brewing procedure this
time.
Doug
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2) From: Yakster
Great tip, Doug.
I'll be sure to try this when I get my eight cup out next weekend foe
my parent's visit. I tried the vac pot when first purchased, but
bought it for times when we have company.
-Chris
On 10/10/09, Doug Hoople  wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Doug Hoople
Just a quick followup. I've made a couple more pots of coffee today. One of
them was on a deliberately max-out coarse setting on the Vario (which
normally leads to 8 and 10 minute drawdowns), and I got a 2:30 minute
drawdown. So it was slower than desired, but a lot faster than normal.
And I've made two more pots with the medium grind that appears to be the
most consistent on the Vario, and both pots have exhibited that same clean
transparency that brings out the sweetness in the cup.
Note my usual disclaimer that all grinders produce inconsistent grinds at
the coarsest settings. There are very few, if any, in the world that can
produce really consistent grinds at the coarsest settings.
Note also that the beans I'm brewing are darker-roast than most aficionados
like them. And Tom weighed in a few months back (with his usual succint,
dead-on wisdom) about the shattering effect inherent in the greater
structural delicacy of darker beans. So, even when ground with a really
consistent grinder, shattered dark beans are still likely to produce fines.
At any rate, this new twist in the vacpot procedure really does appear to
have a material effect in improving the consistency of the glass-rod vacpot
drawdown. You read it here first!!!
Doug
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: Doug Hoople
Sorry, that was succinct, not succint. It becomes obvious as soon as you
pronounce it out loud, doesn't it? :)
Too much coffee today? Maybe, but at least it was delicious!
Doug
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Yakster
And I meant to say for instead of foe, but with this phone, typing ois
not the best.
Now I must make a vac pot of City Eth karote tonight and it's all
youir fault. :-)
-Chris
On 10/10/09, Doug Hoople  wrote:
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6) From: raymanowen
"...you can choose a grind for its flavor properties and not for its
mechanical properties.
[The only thing over which you have control with a grinder is the grind. The
flavor should follow, but it never leads the physical grind in spite of the
button labels.]
I'll have to experiment more to see if that's really true." [The only sure
thing is- Enjoy Coffee]
                  QED
So, you choose to hear Khachaturian's Piano Concerto. Mechanically, you're
going to keep hitting Middle C on your spinet, listening for the Concerto.
If you believe in this sort of thing, AK might rise, angry at hearing his
composition murdered...
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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7) From: Yakster
Ok, now I'm in front of a real keyboard and screen so you can blame me for
any mistakes in this message.
I'm enjoying a cup of Ethiopian Sidamo Natural Process Korate rested two
days from a city roast in the Behmor that I brewed in the Vac Pot.  It's
nice, the off taste from the next morning is gone and the blueberries are
subtle but there, but it's not a fruit bomb.  I think vac pot is an ideal
method for this bean.
I reviewed the Yama directions and Tom's tip sheet prior to brewing (since
this is just my second time vac potting--third if you count dry runs without
coffee grounds) and was surprised to read the recommendation for only a one
minute extraction before the draw down.  I followed this and it tastes fine,
but I though it'd be longer.
I gave the pot Doug's turbo boost to agitate the grounds prior to the
draw-down and got a 1:22 draw down.  I don't remember a problem with the
first brew, but once I removed the pot from the burner and set it aside, it
proceeded rapidly.  I did get a fair amount of grounds in my cup, too many
fines from my grind setting.  I bet that there's a lot of variation also
between rods and funnels and Doug, you just may have a tough combination.
Nice to be able to pour myself a second cup.  Brewed 5 cups in the 8 cup
brewer which is enough for almost three of my cups.  This will come in handy
for when the folks visit, but I have been thinking of picking up a second
CCD (Clever Coffee Dripper) so I can brew two filter cones at once to
increase my capacity.  This would also work well at the coffee tasting that
I'll be hosting at work on Friday.  Two or three CCDs and my two Aeropresses
should have it covered.
Anyway, nice to be home, the Wife took my oldest to see Wicked today
(recommended) while I took the youngest to a Pumpkins in the park event then
to see "Cloudy with a chance of meatballs" in IMAX 3D.  I was prepared to
hate the 3D, but the move used it to good effect.  Good movie for
youngsters, but something that you'll soon forget, not a classic that'll
stay with you.
Enjoy,
-Chris
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8) From: raymanowen
"...bought it for times when we have company."
Oh, boy. JACKPOT-
That's why I'm going to invest in some kind of real espresso machine- The
Company!
"Here they come, Love. Gotta light it up."
I won't get any argument- she's gone over. So has my friend, Ray, the new
steward of the Maestro Plus with the excellent Virtuoso burrs.
It's going to become a speed-controlled dc motor in the Maestro with 3
diodes, an SCR and a diac, couple of resistors and a pot with a herkin'
electrolytic cap. Ray will be first on his block with a dc variable speed
Maestro-cum-Virtuoso.
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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9) From: Yakster
I've banished my thrift store automatic drip coffee makers to the garage
(including the Bunn I never really used).
The only time they were ever dug out was when family came over... I'm hoping
to keep them banished and just Vac Pot instead.  I can see this breaking
down, though, when there's both ovens going and all burners on the stove
covered.   Maybe I can just vac pot on the side burner of the BBQ?
The other option is to pick up a couple more Clever Coffee Makers and make a
pourover station.  Too bad Tom's out of stock right now.
-Chris
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 10:50 PM,  wrote:
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10) From: Yakster
After reading Doug's post on the forum, I realized he was seeing long
extractions when adding the coffee after the water goes North.  I had added
the coffee first, so I talked the Wife into a second cup and brewed a second
pot.
When the water wouldn't go South or even start a minute or so after pulling
it from the burner, I got worried and eventually ended up pulling up the rod
(but not all the way out of the funnel tube) until the flow started since I
was worried about possible breakage.
I'll probably stick to putting in the coffee first.
This really is a fine cup and a fine way to brew coffee, though.
-Chris
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11) From: Doug Hoople
Hey Chris,
It's a good thing you're playing with this a week in advance of company.
I've gotten stalls with people visiting, and it's no fun.
And yes, there are a lot of combinations of glass rod and pot. No two glass
rods are alike, it seems. I'm using a Cory rod sent to me by Dave Borton
(BoldJava) after a long-ish discussion on the topic last Spring. It'd
definitely the best of the glass rods I've used so far. I've also used a
Corning rod, sent by another poster who generally tries to keep a low
profile, so I won't name him. The Corning rod has also worked well.
I reckon that, in the end, most of my difficulties stem from roasting dark
(FC+ to Vienna) and the powder that gets generated when the beans shatter on
impact with the grinder. As Tom pointed out a few months back, the structure
of darker-roasted beans is much more fragile than lighter-roasted beans, and
he described how much more easily they shatter.
Among the people with whom I've corresponded, the ones who roast light
rarely, if ever, see any problems whatsoever with long drawdown times.
This morning was pot #6 of this new trick, and the results are consistent.
The drawdown time was actually very short (1:09), and the resulting pot was
beautifully clear and free of grounds. This time, if anything, the cup is a
little underextracted, which is fine, because I'm looking for greater
control, and I can tweak the timings. But apart from being underextracted,
it's a nice cup of coffee.
Before I started doing this, my drawdown times would vary from 1:45 to 3
minutes, with a pretty even distribution across those times. In the 6 pots
I've made, most of the drawdowns have run 1:45 or so, which is perfect. Only
one went long, and that was the one where I deliberately tried to grind for
trouble. Even with that one, the drawdown time, which could normally be
counted for 6 minutes or more, came in at 3:00 exactly.
Finallly, if you're getting good coffee by putting the grounds in pre-rise,
well then....
Enjoy!
Doug
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Yakster  wrote:
<Snip>
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12) From: Brian Kamnetz
On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 1:50 AM,   wrote:
<Snip>
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.... Ray? Did I hear you right? Are you planning to
get an actual espresso machine? Sure hope so, and look forward to
updates if you do.
Brian
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13) From: Brian Kamnetz
T24gU3VuLCBPY3QgMTEsIDIwMDkgYXQgMTo1NyBBTSwgWWFrc3RlciA8eWFrc3RlckBnbWFpbC5j
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14) From: Yakster
Grounds before water
 Water rushes down
  Clean fruit blooms
-Chris
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Yakster  wrote:
<Snip>
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15) From: Doug Hoople
"Grounds before water
 Water rushes down
 Clean fruit blooms
-Chris"
:)
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16) From: Doug Hoople
It's Day 3, and I've just finished making the 9th or 10th pot using the
"afterburner thrust."
It works like a champ! It's actually very consistent.
Depending on the intensity of the final thrust, the effect can be quite
pronounced. With 15 seconds to go, I turn the burner on high and wait for
the rumble that indicates max turbulence. Then I shut it off and start the
drawdown. Again, the measured temperature in the funnel never rises above
202F in my tests.
The last three pots, I've been getting drawdown times of 1:09, 1:10, 1:08
(as measured from the first descending plume of coffee into the pot). Talk
about consistent!
And now that I'm getting the timing under control, and adjusting my
procedure accordingly, my coffee's more consistent, too. Still transparently
clean & sweet.
I love it! For months, I've lamented the lack of control of the glass-rod
vacpot brewing procedure because of the variability of the clogging effect.
This little trick addresses that completely.
Enjoy your Monday morning cuppa!
Doug
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17) From: Angelo
IIRC, that "technique" was suggested years ago when a stall was 
experienced. The blast of air would move the fines away from the rod, 
while expanding the air in the bottom bowl, and give the operator a 
second chance to control the download...  Good to see that it also 
helps consistency.
<Snip>
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18) From: Doug Hoople
I think that suggestion was to remedy a stall that had already occurred by
re-applying heat after the drawdown had started. The brew was a loss, but at
least the pot wouldn't implode.
In this case, it's to keep the fines from getting to the rod in the first
place, so that the drawdown never gets a chance to stall.
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Angelo  wrote:
<Snip>
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19) From: raymanowen
Actually, I'm hoping to find a derelict E-61 job that I can repair and
modify. Had my chance almost 25 years ago. My friend, John had won an
auction lot of equipment from a ship undergoing dry dock/ refurbishment. A
(4-group) espresso machine was part of the auction lot.
"Ray, you're all about coffee- you want the espresso machine? It was part of
this lot and it has your name on it." [It had black, red and gold Naugahyde
upholstery all over the case and looked like it came out of a Tijuana Cat
House.] The appearance put me off, I knew nothing about the machines and I
doubted I wanted to actually drink espresso anyway.
"We can clear off one of my benches, wrap it in plastic and store it." It
had a 12-4 pigtail and I was tempted, with 208/ 3-ph in the shopI never
touched it after that...
The dual boiler jobs that currently exist are clown shows. Guess the idea
hasn't made the 5 o'clock news that the brew boiler might be better PID
controlled in the thermosiphon circuit. I've never done it, but that's going
to change. A s/s flash steam boiler could be fed from the brew boiler to
feed the steam wand.
Dual vibe pumps, wired 180 out of phase feeding a hydraulic accumulator
makes for smooth pressure or 4, with 2 fed power by a 90 phase shift cap=
. 1
or 2 of those pumps could fail- it wouldn't stop or disable the brewing. You
might just hear the different sound.
"I'm going to invest..." as soon as I find the right fixxer-upper and
commingle some Geld in the account.
If I can do it, I'll be happier than a Shig wallowing in Pit.
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
ee.com
<Snip>
-- =
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
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20) From: Brian Kamnetz
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