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Topic: OT :Opening/closing doors (17 msgs / 482 lines)
1) From: miKe mcKoffee
The difference between some (most) self employed in the early building
stages (and sometimes forever never making it), and those with a JOB can be
huge. I've been on both sides. Debi & I were in the six figure income
bracket once upon a time when I worked for DEC/Compaq/HP. Now it's a miracle
the lights are still turned on. How many people with a JOB are willing to
work months at a stretch 7 days a week 10 to 16 hours a day for ZERO pay,
while at the same time paying others out of their empty pocket to the extent
of using up all their credit to pay them? I've taken a grand total of 2 days
off in 2009. Primarily to prevent a breakdown. And I'm owed by my company
for services rendered from the middle Aug 2008 to date. Yet I've never
missed paying my employees. 
How are you supposed to respond? No one made you or asked you to respond,
you got on your soap box all by yourself. Exaggerations? I think not. What
you smell must be of your own creation. You say my words are a myth, thanks
for calling me a liar.
By the way, just because some people don't know the meaning of a word, for
instance disingenuous, doesn't mean all people are uneducated and don't know
the meaning. The uneducated assuming all others are like wise ignorant
speaks volumes. Ever hear of a dictionary?
Yes, by many standards my business is becoming successful. I've created jobs
for others and I have a growing number of loyal customers. Indeed THE DOORS
ARE STILL OPEN while countless others have recently closed. That doesn't
mean I, the owner, am making a dime yet. Your two cents worth is more than
I've been paid in over a year while I've worked my ass off and paid others
including my employs tens of thousands of dollars. 
And for the record I've been a member of this List for close to a decade. 
Slave to the Bean Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.NorwestCoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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2) From: Carrie Goetze
Wow.. you go.  Well said and if I ever get that far north I should stop in
and visit.  (here in San Diego, Ca.)

3) From: Doug Hoople
I never called you a liar, but you've called me uneducated, while knowing
absolutely NOTHING about me.
That speaks volumes. Thanks very much.
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:59 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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4) From: Doug Hoople
"The uneducated assuming all others are like wise ignorant speaks volumes.
Ever hear of a dictionary?"
foolish ad hominem.
I'm not the one who invented a whole new use for the word "disingenuous."
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5) From: Allon Stern
Relax.
Grind.
Dose.
Brew.
Drink.
Relax.
Roast.
Relax.
-
allon
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6) From: Joseph Robertson
Allon, right on, this is not the 4th of july...
JR
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:06 AM, Allon Stern  wrote:
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-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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7) From: John A C Despres
OK, so what does disingenuous mean? There's a new meaning? According to my
OED, the meaning hasn't changed from " lacking in candor or frankness,
insincere, morally fraudulent" since 1655.
Definitions prior to 1655 are not noted in my current edition of the OED.
John
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8) From: Larry Williams
I agree - have a cup of brew and let it go, or reply personally.
Larry
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:06 AM, Allon Stern  wrote:
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-- 
Larry Williams
Everyday Is a Saturday
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9) From: Doug Hoople
"OK, so what does disingenuous mean? There's a new meaning? According to my
OED, the meaning hasn't changed from " lacking in candor or frankness,
insincere, morally fraudulent" since 1655."
Hey, sheriff, why you piling on and trying to re-open this? Relax.
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10) From: John A C Despres
Just responding in the order I read 'em, Doug. First I read one and respond.
Then I read another and respond. Then there may be another I read... well
you get the picture.
As to piling on, no, not so much. I apologize if you feel I'm piling on. It
is not my intention to pile on, create the impression of piling on or in any
way offend or hurt anyone's feelings.
I posted two different replies to two different threads. That's piling on? I
apologize and will never reply to more than one thread at a time within,
say, 24 hours. I was wrong, Doug. You are correct. I'm sorry if I piled on
with my two posts. I won't do it again. I was wrong and was extremely
inconsiderate of your feelings. I wish I were so much more thoughtful and
were able to see things so clearly like you. I will stand up to your model
and take notes in order that I may better myself.
I'm sorry.
John
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
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11) From: Doug Hoople
Where's your smiley, John? I'm assuming vast amounts of tongue-in-cheek
here.
When I said piling on, it wasn't about volume, it was about timing. Things
were subsiding to a dull roar when you asked for an explanation of the
meaning of 'disingenuous,' quoting from the OED. To me, that felt like
re-opening a conversation that was closing down.
Getting back to 'disingenuous,' in context, the quote was
"If you proclaim the tales told as disingenuous to your critical standards,
then I shall
express my displeasure and query the means that allow you such a lofty
opinion of yourself that you may define the line you write."
A bit purple and obfuscatory in my book, C+ for clarity of writing, but
never mind.
Frankly, I still don't understand the use of the word disinguenuous in this
context. 'Disingenuous,' in its general current use, means knowing better
but presenting a false front of not knowing, a bit like a crafty strategist
playing dumb blonde. Obviously, that meaning is just wrong in the context of
the discussion. What does "disingeunous to your critical standards" mean,
anyway?
Let's just change one word here, and suggest a possible interpretation on
behalf of the writer "If you proclaim the tales told as disingenuous by your
critical standards..." Suddenly, the sentence comes into focus. The writer
is implying that I'm saying that MiKe was making stuff up, that MiKe was
being disingenuous. MiKe himself thought that's what I meant, so this is
probably not an unreasonable interpretation.
If anything, though, my complaint was about an excess of sincerity, which
would be the opposite of this meaning of 'disingenuous.'
btw, any evidence here of a lack of education, an inability to use a
dictionary, an inability to parse semantics from context?
Have we all had enough now? I stirred this pot, so I guess I can't complain
that the water's muddy, but I am ready to let things settle, and am hoping
we all are.
Thanks.
Doug
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:30 PM, John A C Despres wrote:
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12) From: John A C Despres
No, I found no evidence at all, Doug. I love print dictionaries, own many,
both antique and contemporary, and will, at the drop of a hat, whip one out.
So that's what I did here. I went straight for the big gun with the best
historical references. I truly hope I did not imply anything at all (dead
serious, no smiley required) about anybody's intellect.
Had I made that incorrect assumption earlier, I'd be set straight by the
correct use of "parse". Most folk use it incorrectly and it's a pleasure to
see it used correctly.
Now this is a thread I'm very interested in. Change the topic to "OT:
Grammar" and let's go!
John
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
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13) From: Tom Ulmer
Mere obscurity in fuchsia was the intended delivery so I'll take C+. 
Either context commutes static which, indeed, I deemed originally
intentional. Possibly parseDouble method is in play as the threads of my
thought do seem to wander... 
As ire it seems a peevish indulgence on your part and now having indulged
mine in a similar vein it does seem past time to move along.

14) From: Doug Hoople
"Mere obscurity in fuchsia was the intended delivery so I'll take C+."
A+, Tom, then, for successful effect, right down to your choice of
prepositions. :)
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
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15) From: miKe mcKoffee
God I'm sick. I enjoy such repartee as a respit from that which I must not
speak. You see, I speak not of it! Alas though most assuredly voluminously
coffee related yet does not envelope home roasting's narrow sphere, be it
fuchsia, crimson or chartreuse:-)
(Don't read this, it concerns that which I must not speak. But you see with
roasting and bagging done I'm stalling from a task I relish not, drawing a
1/4" to 1' scale floor diagram of St. Johns Roastery Coffeehouse and all
it's accoutrements for the Health Department...)
Slave to the Bean Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.NorwestCoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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16) From: Doug Hoople
"I truly hope I did not imply anything at all (dead serious, no smiley
required) about anybody's intellect."
No, John, you didn't. There's a paragraph earlier in the thread that ends
with "Ever hear of a dictionary?" that contains some really foul stuff. You
didn't write that.  It was directed at me, the son of an English teacher and
veteran of hundreds of dictionary disputes, many with native speakers of
British English, in which the discussions get really heated. In those, I
successfully established the Oxford Concise as the authority, as it was
among the first authoritative compact dictionaries to reflect full
statistical international use of the English language, and was most likely
to highlight & spell out regional differences (e.g., American: aluminum,
British: aluminium).
I'm a bit sorry to see paper dictionaries fading from the scene. I love
them, too.
So, given all that,  I'll have to be forgiven for taking "Ever hear of a
dictionary?" as a provocation.
Doug
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17) From: John A C Despres
Ah, British English. Separation by a common language. My favorite dictionary
in the collection was purchased by my grandfather, a Canada to US immigrant,
was published in1909, has 10,000 onion skin paper pages and a wonderful
corduroy cover. I used to fill many hours as a child with this particular
volume and now my 8-year-old does the same.
Then there's my Webster's Vest Pocket Dictionary with nearly 50,000 words
with various tables all crammed into 194 pages. I don't know when it was
published, my guess is turn of the century.
John
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
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