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Topic: was Espresso advice *HiJacked* now presurized (7 msgs / 224 lines)
1) From: michael brown
Okay, after Sandra's comments about pressurized portafilters on Estro/Saeco machines i had to do some research and this is what i found:http://www.partsguru.com/SaecoRioProfi.html I had no idea that i had been using a "pressurized portafilter" this whole time.  I emailed the contact of this website (before i knew of this page) and redirected me to the page i just linked.  It suggested not tamping at all!  I thought, ridiculous!  So i tried it, and had surprising results.  I need to play with it some more but it's 11pm and i don't need to pull anymore shots.  I have to be at work at 8am.  
Anyone else have any experience with pressurized portafilters?  He didn't have an owners manual for my exact machine.  I have an estro model 410, SIN 007.  But the link to the "226552008 Portafilter diagram Starbucks model 
                  Via Venezia" diagram matches my portafilter exactly.  Now i'm all shook up, thinking i've been pulling shots WAY WRONG (at least as how this machine was intended) the whole time i've had this machine [over a year].  And by the way, i'd been able to pull what i've thought were decent shots my way (dosing, knocking, tamp, knock, tamp, sometimes a third knock and tamp).
Michael B
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2) From: miKe mcKoffee
FYI, if by "knock" you mean knocking the PF (portafilter) from the side with
tamper (versus downward tap of PF) knock it off. It's a bad habit that gains
nothing and will often as not cause you channeling problems with a "real"
PF. IE the side knocking disrupts the distribution.
Slave to the Bean Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
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3) From: Sandy Andina
Wait'll you get the unpressurized PF and go back to properly tamping.  You were getting "decent" shots before, and (I surmise in terms of apparent "crema") "better" shots once you followed mfr. directions. You will, with good technique and no gizmos, get MUCH better shots, closer to barista-quality than now or before.
Caveat:  the Profi and Vapore models were sturdy, all metal models; the Via Venezia looks newer and more spiffy but it's a flimsier machine.
On Jan 8, 2010, at 11:09 PM, michael brown wrote:
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Peace & song, 
Sandy 
www.sandyandina.com
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4) From: Mike Koenig
Michael,
One of my previous machines was a Saeco,  which came with the pressurized
portafilter, which at the time, had a valve that you could open or close by
moving the handle left or right.  It could make crema from whatever I put in
there,  old beans, sawdust, cat litter..etc..
At the time I wasn't yet roasting,  but was using relatively fresh beans
from a mail-order roaster.  I would always get somewhat thin tasting shots
using the pressurized device,  and got a good amount of improvement when I
ordered the non-pressurized one.
At the time I believed that good crema was the key to good espresso, and
struggling to get good crema on my shots (as opposed to the sandy colored
crema that evaporated quickly from the pressurized thingy)  was what
eventually led me to roasting at home.
--mike
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 12:09 AM, michael brown  wrote:
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5) From: Mike Koenig
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6) From: raymanowen
When a liquid (Hot water) flows at a certain rate through a resistance,
(packed coffee puck) a back pressure is generated. (9 bar)
The 9 bar pressure exists only at the interface where the water enters the
puck, the pressure drops linearly as the water progresses through the
resistance puck.
At the bottom of the puck/ pf basket, the pressure of the espresso and crema
is zero. () It doesn't squirt out the bottom grid of the basket.
If the pressure is caused by a restriction after the flow through the puck,
the pressure in the puck, where the espresso extracts, will not have the
infinite pressure ratio of 9 bar/ 0 bar or 132 psi/ 0 psi. Any flow through
a resistance will still yield a pressure drop, (potential difference in
electronics) but the denominator is no longer zero so the ratio is no longer
infinite.
Just like in grinders, you can't have perfection when every particle size is
different. Even David Kenmore offers no explanation of the physics of
espresso extraction. The facts are a little chilling to be wantonly ignored.
I have a new physiologic event- the Synaptic Dance when I try to brew
espresso. Variable pressure, temperature and particle size. Everybody does
it that way. It reminds me of The Infernal
Dance
movement of
Igor Stravinsky's Firebird. How in the world can all the variables make for
the Huge shots pulled by so many? Great when it all comes together.
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
-- =
Persist in old ways; expect different results - suborn Insanity...
note: this email sent on a teletype and wire photo transceiver via spark
gap.
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7) From: Bonnie Polkinghorn
Dear Michael,
I read somewhere, probably on Coffee Geek, on how to tamp while using the
pressurized portafilter that will help make better shots.  I don't remember
the exact article, but I have been using that method and my shots are a lot
better.  I have the *$ Barista purchased in 2002 (when I didn't know any
better).  If I have a moment, I'll look it up.
-Bonnie
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 9:09 PM, michael brown  wrote:
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