HomeRoast Digest


Topic: irritation when measuring beans for espresso (20 msgs / 716 lines)
1) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

2) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Claus_Th=F8gersen?=
HI,
I use my Mazzer Mini E both for brewed coffee and also for espresso. Since I 
have different beans I only put the necessary beans in the grinder for the 
coffee and espresso I am making. This works fine for AE and Vacuum brewing, 
but with Espressos it seems to be different even though I measure out the 
same amount of beans for the first and second espresso there are more coffee 
in the grind of the second espresso.
Obviously it must have something to do with coffee beeing trapped somewhere 
in the grinder, but I try to make sure that all the beans in the hopper is 
always beeing grinded.
Any ideas how to avoid this situation other than weighing each portion of 
espresso after it is grinded would be nice.
Claus
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

3) From: Allon Stern
On Jan 31, 2010, at 10:16 AM, Claus Thøgersen wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
e I have different beans I only put the necessary beans in the grinder for =
the coffee and espresso I am making. This works fine for AE and Vacuum brew=
ing, but with Espressos it seems to be different even though I measure out =
the same amount of beans for the first and second espresso there are more c=
offee in the grind of the second espresso.
<Snip>
<Snip>
re in the grinder, but I try to make sure that all the beans in the hopper =
is always beeing grinded.
<Snip>
<Snip>
 espresso after it is grinded would be nice.
All the beans in the hopper will be ground, but not all the grounds will ma=
ke it out of the chute.
I grind my espresso, then stop the grinder, and use a brush to pull out the=
 grounds from the chute, then grind again, and repeat.
(On my grinder, I removed the hopper, and also brush out the throat of the =
grinder - a few beans and bean shards hang up on a shelf above the burrs)
Some people use a click-clack lid to blow the grinds out of the chute.
You're on the right track!
-
allon
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

4) From: John A C Despres
Allon and I use the same technique for clearing the throat and chute. When
grinding for espresso, the chute in my MM is choked with coffee so I just
clap my hand on the top of the throat and the air forces the coffee out of
the chute. From there I brush & grind as Allon does.
John
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

5) From: Ryan M. Ward
Since we are on the topic...
I plan to buy a new grinder pretty soon here. The grinder I am looking at m=
ost is the Mazzer Mini or Mazzer Digital. Those who have them, are you happ=
y with it? Would you make the same decision in buying it again? How does it=
 stack up against the Rocky?
-- =
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmi=
c Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-gener=
ated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I =
am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the=
 Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I sen=
d, I encourage you to do the same.
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
der
<Snip>
uum
<Snip>
ure
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
n of
<Snip>
 the
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
s)
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
 		 	   		  =
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

6) From: Joseph Robertson
Ryan,
just a little OT....
thank you for your custom sig. I'm making a move to SuSe as soon as
possible.
Best grinder hunting wishes to you.
JoeR
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Ryan M. Ward
wrote:
<Snip>
oes
<Snip>
out
<Snip>
st
<Snip>
ut
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
-- =
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

7) From: Ryan M. Ward
Joe, =
Glad to hear it. I used SUSE for a little while there. It seemed like a pre=
tty good distro. =
Not making an assumptions about your Linux/UNIX background, if you need any=
 resource references, or book title recommendations, etc let me know. =
-- =
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmi=
c Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-gener=
ated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I =
am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the=
 Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I sen=
d, I encourage you to do the same.
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
at
<Snip>
 does
<Snip>
d out
<Snip>
just
<Snip>
ut
<Snip>
so.
<Snip>
 in
<Snip>
 out
<Snip>
 of
<Snip>
te.
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
 		 	   		  =
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

8) From: raymanowen
A suggestion:
I, too, like fresh espresso, whatever it takes. When I first got the BUFF, I
had a new set of burrs waiting for it. Just for grins, first I ground 10g of
some Panama beans I had been using (that very morning) in the comical-burred
Solis Maestro Plus.
Kind of hit-or-miss for TechniVorm drip, mostly MISS for espresso brewing in
the Capresso. Two completely different coffee pots had only one thing in
common to prevent the articulation of coffee flavor and aroma, while giving
the random super mug or phenomenal shot. 20 questions? Same answer: Grinder,
silly- Grinder!.
Now that I cranked the burr spacing down to 19.5 from 20 or 0.0119" from
0.0122" [I actually measured a discrepancy with my earlier measurement. I
was just cleaning/ vacuuming the burrs and grind chamber this time, put the
dial calipers on the threads to reconfirm my earlier thread pitch
measurement.]
A flood of crema that settled into a wonderful shot of espresso
Puff* the grinder  to clear the grounds from the chute and grinding chamber.
If you don't clear them out of the grinder, what will they be doing between
grinding sessions? That's right, going stale. And that's what you'll be
drinking in your next shot. Muy repugnante, isn't it?
*Puffer = the round bellows from a broken thrift store airpot. Take the
hopper off and puff the residual grounds into a frothing pitcher with the
main grind. I do it every grind- the quantity of grounds is amazing.
I vacuum the grinder at least daily in the forward and back directions. It's
all a minor effort compared to growing the coffee. Imagine a year doing that
in the tropics. Like the farmer, you have to make hay while the sun is
shining. A whole year.
If you initially measure out the beans into your PF basket, just below level
with the rim, you can either grind them directly or bag them in a Ziploc
sandwich bag for a trip through the freezer prior to grinding. Surface
hardening or a total freeze seems to help grinding, and the beans crack to
bits rather than tearing like a sheet of torn rather than cut paper.
The basket full of beans yields a nice pile of grounds that packs down to
Schomer's recommended depth.
Size matters- ever see a machinist using an engine lathe he could just carry
around under one arm? The Mazzers cited in Ryan's post outweigh the Rocky by
at least 2:1. ("Rocky motor weighs about 6 pounds" My grind adjustment nut
alone weighs 4 pounds.)
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

9) From: Greg Hollrigel
Ryan:
I don't have experience with the Mazzers, but the Baratzza Vario is getting
great reviews too, and I guess there is a new one due this Spring.  It might
be worth considering either of these in your choices.  If not, then ... not.
:-)
Greg

10) From: raymanowen
"...the Baratzza Vario is getting great reviews"
Ever notice how many of these "reviews" use the same words and wording as
the marketing department's advertising copy?
The reviewers never make mention of the narrow latitude in size variation of
the grounds at a particular grind setting, how small and resettable the
grinding increments are. Never any cupping to describe the effect of the
slight grind size adjustments on the cup.
There has been some comedy passed off as serious discussion re: the *Desired
* grind size variation at any particular grind setting. That borders on the
ridiculous. If your car ran the way that grinder expert suggested, you'd be
arrested on suspicion of DUI.
Why have laws and adjustments if "anything goes?"
If a nice grinder won't fit in the Lilliputian doll house, and a chain saw
would be too noisy- Starbucks has your coffee waiting...
Cheers, Mabuhay, und Guten Morgen -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

11) From: Starfinder Stanley
In my experience, most grinders have a variety of places for the gremlins to
hide 'extra' grounds after the burrs and before the exit chute.  I usually
take a sample machine apart to assess the nooks and crannies (many have
little windmill vanes around the base of the burrs, to fling the grounds
out, which usually all fill up with grounds).  If you can do it in the
store, even better!  That way you know the thing is easy to disassemble and
clean, too.  I have to admit I'm still running a lighter, cheaper grinder
(one of the off-brand ones with more expensive innards from years ago, can't
remember the brand off the top of my head), which I just pick up and give a
few thumps on the counter at the end of the grind, spinning the burrs after
the hopper's empty to mobilize the grounds in the 'windmill.'  Then a couple
sharp raps upward with the portafilter to assure the chute's empty
(otherwise the gremlins gleefully dump a pile of grounds out 15 seconds
after I remove the PF).
Otherwise, I would recommend starting your coffee ritual by running some
sacrificial beans through and dumping the first 5 seconds' worth of grounds
to avoid risk of contracting stalecoffeeitis.
...Starfinder
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

12) From: Doug Hoople
RayO's very entertaining, and occasionally enlightening, but he never let
the facts get in the way of a good dramatic gesture.
He had a bad experience with his Solis, and never misses a chance to remind
anyone. But methinks he presses his case a little far in imputing tawdry
marketing dodges into Barata's methods.
I'm the satisfied owner of a Baratza Vario, and I've read most of the
reviews out there carefully over time, as most of us obsessed types do. I
can't spot the plagiarism that RayO has repeatedly cited here, and the
reviews that I've read seem reasonably even-handed and carefully thought
out. I have even seen reference to grind size variations and
grind consistency in some of these reviews, so I also don't know what lapse
in that category Der Opa is on about.
I have one reason why I can't recommend the Vario on this list:
1) Sweet Maria's doesn't sell it.
There's another reason, too, and that's that I don't drink espresso. I don't
know how it performs as an espresso grinder, and this list is
espresso-obsessed, so I'm not qualified to say. Except, of course, to say
that it's really fine for vacpot grinding.
But I certainly see no marketing conspiracy to rig the reviews, as RayO
does. And, contrary to RayO's claims, I've found Baratza to be
customer-oriented to an extreme not often seen these days, and have directly
seen a high level of ethics and integrity in their operation. Whatever
anyone thinks of the products themselves, there's no reason whatsoever to
question Baratza's integrity. That would be poetic injustice indeed, as
there are plenty of companies that deserve such opprobrium, and Baratza
isn't one of them..
Doug
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:49 AM,  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

13) From: Michael Wade
At last, someone who is using the grinder I'm considering for brew!
Doug, if I might ask, how much difference did you notice in the cup?
I've read that a design priority was to minimize grind retention.  Do you 
find this to be true?
I'm also curious about the noise level, but it would have to be quieter than 
my old Maestro...
Michael Wade

14) From: Michael Dhabolt
I use the Vario (have been 'testing' it for 10 months or so).  My use
is for espresso grind (the only thing we drink here).  I'm quite
impressed with it.  If you shop the web, $400 or so seems to be the
going price. The burr set, burr carrier and additional features of the
Vario puts it in an entirely different class than the less expensive
grinders as well as some of the more expensive ones.
If you have a few months to wait and use your grinder for espresso
infrequently,  Baratza is almost ready to introduce a variation of the
Virtuoso with considerably finer grind adjustment that is less
expensive than the Vario.  I don't recommend the Virtuoso for long
term espresso only use but it would probably be a great grinder for
general use.
The above attitude is not based on actually playing with the new
model.  When it becomes available, it may surpass my expectations.
Baratza has developed a habit of accomplishing pretty nifty stuff at
reasonable price points.
Mike (just plain)
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Michael Wade  wrote:
<Snip>
ou
<Snip>
han
<Snip>
as
<Snip>
on
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

15) From: Doug Hoople
Hi Michael,
I missed your email on the main list somehow, and so I'm copying in from the
quoted text of (just plain) Mike's email.
I had the Virtuoso before I had the Vario, and I could tell a distinct
difference in the cup. The flavors were more pronounced, and the cup was
cleaner and sweeter. That's for vacuum brewing. As already mentioned, I
don't drink espresso, so must leave it to folks like (just plain) Mike chime
in.
There is practically no grounds retention at all. There certainly isn't the
kind of buildup that plagues several other grinders. If you puff air through
while running the grinder empty (quick-closing the hopper lid, for example),
you'll get a really light dusting of remainders, but that's it.
There can be a static problem, at least initially, that makes the grinder
seem a bit messy, but it seems to diminish over time. Currently, I simply
let the grinder rest after grinding for 30 seconds or so (typical for
waiting for the water to finish rising in the funnel), and the static seems
to dissipate completely in that interval.
Finally, it's pretty quiet. It's not silent, but I thought it was a bit more
discreet than the Virtuoso, and it doesn't strike me as noisy at all.
Hope this helps.
Doug
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Michael Wade  wrote:
<Snip>
than
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

16) From: miKe mcKoffee
What Mike (just plain) didn't mention was (I'm 99.99% sure) he's using the
Vario instead of his Mazzer Mini, not exactly a low end home grinder itself.
Slave to the Bean Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.NorwestCoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

17) From: raymanowen
Ray calls dem da way he sees dem, no more, no less. Kyle Anderson, the
President of Baratza, was extremely responsive to my problem with the burrs.
My friend, Ray, has the Solis Maestro Plus with the excellent Virtuoso
burrs.
I'll have to quit abusing the BUFF with hard red wheat. There was an
improvement with new burrs after 5 years as a home grinder. My overall
experience with Baratza was good- I gave it away with good burrs installed.
Did you get a refund on that last cup of Starbucks?
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

18) From: Michael Wade
Perfect.  Just what I was looking for.
Thanks all,
Michael Wade

19) From: Keld Soele
2010/2/3, raymanowen :
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

20) From: Michael Dhabolt
miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
miKe is correct. I do maintenance and ground up restorations on
commercial equipment as well as some custom built add on pieces and
home machines.  I need to be able to recommend grinders that don't end
up being a problem and thereby giving me less than a sterling
reputation. My home grinder is a Mazzer Mini and this has been my
recommendation to customers for home use.  The last several years have
seen substantial price increases for the Mini and the Baratza Vario
looked like something I could develop enough confidence in to
recommend.  It certainly isn't at a 'cheap' price point ($400 to $430)
but compared to the current prices for a Mini ($200 to $300 more) it
is more in line with what a serious spro enthusiast can talk
themselves into.  BTW Sweet Maria has as good a price for the Mini as
you will find from a vendor that you can have some confidence in.
The Vario sets on my counter alongside the Mini.  When I shifted over
to the Vario I decided to not use the Mini at all until I had used the
Vario enough to be able to confidently attest to it's long term
viability.  I'm rapidly coming up on a year with the Vario.  It's been
trouble free and a recent inspection of the burr set shows no
discernible wear.  There will always be disagreements about the
minuscule differences in grind quality amongst the top end grinders,
the Vario is definitely in that top end group as far as grind quality
is concerned (presenting preferences always invites controversy which
I'm not interested in).
The Vario is NOT built like a Mazzer.  Any Mazzer will outlive you,
even when subjected to less than loving care.  The Mazzer grinders are
designed to 'just keep truckin' in severe environments and do a good
job of accomplishing it. My experience with the Vario can in no way
develop a comparison with a Mazzer, I don't have enough years left on
Terra firma to accomplish that kind of comparison.  I can say that it
is small and stylish enough to be considerably more kitchen decor
friendly without requiring vast quantities of real estate on your
counter.  It has some nifty features that lend itself to environments
that require radical changes in grind (spro to drip) easily, quickly
and with consistency as well as a useful auto timing function.
I will soon sell the Vario and move back to my trusty Mini.  For me,
the decision between the two would be easy (Mini), but I'm the kind of
guy who finds beauty in lathes and machine tools of various kinds.  I
have customers who I am sure would make the same decision in favor of
the Vario.
All in all, a pretty darned good little machine.
Mike (just plain)
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20


HomeRoast Digest