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Topic: Improper speeds through and after 1st (12 msgs / 249 lines)
1) From: Allon Stern
On Jun 24, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Edward Bourgeois   
wrote:
<Snip>
I think it depends where in the roast you are. How can you achieve a  
solid climb? Aren't there bumps during which transformations take  
place, consuming the energy being put in; you'll see a pause in the  
climb, then a continuation. If you try to compensate, is that good or  
bad? I don't know. I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't compensate and  
goose the heat. I just let the energy build, and know that if I try to  
climb at that point, the rate of climb will be racing on the other  
side of the bump, and it is very hard to put on the brakes. I think  
that as long as no backsliding occurs, then you're ok.
(barring extreme pauses, leading to baking)
-
allon
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2) From: Joseph Robertson
Allon,
This comment of yours has been my experience as well. Generally speaking
that is.
Many variables as you know...
I have on rare occasions had to try and save a batch with some breaks on.
Usually a salvage situation.
Joe
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
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3) From: Edward Bourgeois
I should have qualified that my hybrid roaster doesn't work on stored
energy so small tweaks can be done quite quickly and smoothly. I can
change my ET during and after 1st crack a few degrees and change the
degrees rise/min. also by a few degrees to match my preplanned time
and finish temp./look. On a roast I want to end say approx. 5 degrees
after 1st crack  I can either extend the length of first by going
slower just into and during or go a little faster into first and slow
more towards the end. Each resulting in the same total time.
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
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4) From: Allon Stern
On Jun 25, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Edward Bourgeois   
wrote:
<Snip>
Sure, but my question is, is it desirable to obliterate the bumps by  
torching the roast through that phase of the roast?
And, like it or not, any roast has stored energy in the beans. I use a  
heat gun and a thin metal bowl. The beans are the thermal mass in my  
roaster. And they do not behave linearly. The non-linear behavior is  
why I question using a simple risetime over the whole roast.
-
allon
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5) From: raymanowen
I've always accepted the bromide that a roast can stall.  Like any chemical
reaction, more is going on than just elevating the temperature of the bean.
What is a stall? Additional heat causes a larger portion of the bean mass to
enter an endothermic reaction
Take the analogy of logs in a camp fire. The fire could be considered
"stalled" at the start because a single match won't ignite the fire and
generate heat. Unless they're Gas Logs.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Edward Bourgeois wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
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6) From: raymanowen
" If say the roast slowed to 2-3 degrees rise/min for 30sec. to a min.
during 1st. could
negative results occur?"
OK- Ray will play- What did happen to the cup flavor?
-- 
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7) From: Edward Bourgeois
This is where I start to search for more opinions. When I do small
tweaks within what I've found to be acceptable boundaries I get
something I consider different. With the complexities of coffee  I've
assumed  that many different yet still desirable cups can be produced
within a general roast degree from the same beans. When simply
roasting for myself I can try several approaches and pick my favorite
but when I offer the same choices to friends who I roast for I get
some who like my choice and others who definitely like some of the
others. The good thing is it's not a love or hate issue just one of
preference which I think has mostly to do with the fact that I'm
dealing with humans and relates to pleasing some to most of the people
some to most of the time. I've also realized that buying from Tom
makes things more complicated. With SM coffees I don't have to focus
on merely trying to roast out defects that I have experienced from
some coffees from other sources that greatly narrows the
possibilities!
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 10:13 AM,   wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
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8) From: Joseph Robertson
Ed,
Not possible to roast out the defects unless your talking about roasting to
a *$ level and not worrying about what it tastes like.
Joe
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Edward Bourgeois wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
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9) From: Edward Bourgeois
Joe
Sure, I can't work miracles with triage coffee but some slight defects
or deficiencies can be somewhat profiled around to produce a usable
cup without having to go to the end of second crack.
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Joseph Robertson  wr=
ote:
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
wrote:
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
-- =
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
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10) From: Mike Koenig
I think a lot of what you may see depends on where your probe is, and how
fast it responds. If your probe is deep in the bean mass, seeing a stall in
your temp. rise may be worse than if you are measuring more of your ET.
I don't have much experience with detailed temperature monitoring, but I
would expect a slowdown in your ramp rate during the endothermic phases,
since the beans will be taking in energy.  I'd be curious of the effects of
adjusting for this, or letting the roast ride through these phases.
I agree with Allon, that no matter what kind of roaster you are using, you
do have a significant amount of thermal mass in your beans.
--mike
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Edward Bourgeois wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: Joseph Robertson
I totally agree Ed...
It takes a cupper I am not to taste those defects your referring to.
As far as I'm concerned the coffee Tom sources is quite clean.
JoeR
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Edward Bourgeois wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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12) From: raymanowen
... roasting to a *$ level, then Worrying about taste might signal a
problem.
Taste wouldn't be germane to the discussion...
-ro
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
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