HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Color match x Pantone (19 msgs / 562 lines)
1) From: silas coelho
I know, I know, this topic is an old friend from our SM list, but maybe a
new approach.
I ordered few days ago some coffees, and asked Maria if she could send the
Color Roast Post Card. Maria told me that they decide to 'phase out ' the
card because the issues with the reproducibility (aging) of the card, and
they are investigating reliable alternatives to the old post cards.
I have access to same Pantone books (Color Classification System) , and
wondering how to find a proper way to match City, City +, Full City, to
their equivalent Pantone Numbers.
The closest that I got (So far), is:
City + closer to 462 C or 1545 U (Coated Color)
On the Pantone web page, we can find a 'screen representation of the colors,
and their light and darker equivalents (Paint Interior Matching guide, use
the color 462 C on the Pantone Number box), unfortunately the 'screen
representation' is not accurate at all (the paper chips are much, much
better)
One idea will be to order the specific 'chips page' with the  color that we
want to match, I still need to match the other key Roasting colors, and then
get the full equivalent list roasting nomenclature x Pantone Name x Agtron
#. (I just hope that when I have all these matches, they will be inside a
single Pantone chips page)
Each 'chips page' from Pantone book cost (at the website) US$ 7.50, that is
not that bad (ok, ok, I know 1 lb of coffee, that we will not drink!)
Any experience from the list on this approach?
Regards
Silas
Contritionem praecedit superbia,
et ante ruinam exaltatio spiritus (Prov 16:18)http://silasmcoelho.com/Homeroast mailing list
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2) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
What we had done a long time back with help from , jeez, I can't 
remember who did it, was match the SCAA roast color discs to paint 
swatch cards available at Home Depot. The idea is people could go to 
a nearby Home Depot and get the same set of color cards (and of 
course, buy something, because it's only fair). I could try to find 
out the results from that work, if anyone is interested.
We really want to produce a printed series of cards with roast 
images, something you can hold by your roaster and reference. Going 
from digital image to offset print has been the issue. Dark browns 
are very hard to reproduce correctly. We are going to do this again, 
soon, by doing extensive proofs to make sure we get the prints right.
Tom
<Snip>
-- 
-Tom
"Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting
               Thompson & Maria -http://www.sweetmarias.com     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
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3) From: Ryan M. Ward
I would be interested in those card numbers if it is not too much trouble.
-- 
Ryan M. Ward
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4) From: Raymond Hays
Hi,
I just had a thought, which might work!  How about taking a series of beans at the correct roast and have them embossed in resin, like they do coins, bugs, etc.  Maybe 2 or 3 beans at the same roast put side by side or make a circle for better viewing.  Don't know the cost associated with the production, but I have seen home kits for doing such projects.  A real live bean is better than a picture and it would last forever!
Raymond
From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee 
To:"A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this  list, available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 9:10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Color match x Pantone
What we had done a long time back with help from , jeez, I can't 
remember who did it, was match the SCAA roast color discs to paint 
swatch cards available at Home Depot. The idea is people could go to 
a nearby Home Depot and get the same set of color cards (and of 
course, buy something, because it's only fair). I could try to find 
out the results from that work, if anyone is interested.
We really want to produce a printed series of cards with roast 
images, something you can hold by your roaster and reference. Going 
from digital image to offset print has been the issue. Dark browns 
are very hard to reproduce correctly. We are going to do this again, 
soon, by doing extensive proofs to make sure we get the prints right.
Tom
<Snip>
-- 
-Tom
"Great coffee comes from little roasters" - Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting
               Thompson & Maria -http://www.sweetmarias.com     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - info_at_sweetmarias.com
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5) From: Mark Gilstrap
I believe it was Dan Bollinger (of "I had the best cup of espresso..."
tee-shirt fame) who distributed the color samples. It was definitely based
on Sherwin Williams swatches.  I have a set here somewhere.

6) From: Ryan M. Ward
Interesting idea. I would buy something like that (or make something like that given the proper skills and materials).
-- 
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-generated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I send, I encourage you to do the same.
<Snip>
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7) From: Edward Bourgeois
I have mixed feelings with color cards. They might be helpful for a
beginner but they might also add confusion if because they are a
beginner they don't understand that some beans will tend to color
differently and at different times. It's also important to understand
the relationship between surface color and ground or inner color. I
suppose it could be used to add the color numbers in a log record.
It could be quite helpful for us to use to communicate when discussing
a specific bean. It can help diagnose some roast issues. I find I'm
most interested in the 2 Agtron readings when checking out Ken Davids
reviews
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:02 PM, silas coelho  wro=
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ariascoffee.com
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ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
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-- =
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
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8) From: Phil Palmintere
me too.
On 6/25/10, Ryan M. Ward  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
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9) From: Ryan M. Ward
I see it for what I perceive it to be- a tool. Any tool can be used properly or improperly. The solution? The manufacturer sends instructions with lots of caveats! I do certainly see your line of reasoning though. However, for a beginner- some direction is better than none. In the end, taste and quality will guide the beginner to advanced roaster irrespective of which tools they chose to start with. Assuming they are actively learning that it (This is the part where where RayO comments on changing variables one by one to achieve mastery).
-- 
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-generated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I send, I encourage you to do the same.
<Snip>
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10) From: Brian Kamnetz
I was sort of thinking the same thing about color variation. Also, my
impression is that different roasting methods (e.g., drum vs. air
roasting) result in different bean colors for a given level of roast.
Brian
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Edward Bourgeois  wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: Rich
Yes it does.  This is why you should compare ground coffee color instead 
of outer surface color.
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
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12) From: Edward Bourgeois
I would not say instead of but that the relationship with both should
be considered
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Rich  wrote:
<Snip>
d of
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
-- =
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
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13) From: Brian Kamnetz
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14) From: raymanowen
"A real live bean is better than a picture..." and it's Developing, not
frozen in time. What resin have you found that stays water clear and does
not adsorb or react with the bean pigments as it cures, shifting color by
itself or leaching the bean colors?
Exactly what about "Different Pigments, different light source color
temperatures, different colors used as primary colors, color blind
individuals-" that dooms the proposed system to failure seems to be
unimportant? A few minutes' oxidation would cause a quantifiable color shift
if the color be read with a color densitometer.
All silly when the cup is the bottom line. Flavors, not numbers... Is burned
toast a matter of taste or color?
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Earl Scheib may be taking applications...
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15) From: BSGarley
I still think a reference set of roasted beans is a useful idea. 
I envision: 1 oz packets of the minimum roast and the max SM recommended
roast could be available for each coffee origin. 
Bruce Garley
Stillwater, MN
 
Vivir con miedo es como vivir a medias.

16) From: raymanowen
"I envision: 1 oz packets of the minimum roast and the max SM recommended
roast could be available for each coffee origin."
And about how much do you envision paying for them? The labor cost would
hardly diminish to split out the 1oz samples. Add to that the fact that they
do not currently roast to the minima and maxima for commerce.  Does that
change the vision any?
Cheers -RayO
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
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17) From: BSGarley
Charge what the market will bear, like always.
Bruce Garley
Stillwater, MN
 
Vivir con miedo es como vivir a medias.

18) From: Joseph Robertson
Bruce,
You sound like a coffee business man in the making.
Caught the bug?????
Joe
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:51 AM, BSGarley  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
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19) From: raymanowen
" Dark browns are very hard to reproduce correctly."
Maybe with the digital state of the art, it's difficult, but I saw some
excellent, dense brown gradation proofs from an analog laser scanner- that I
repaired, not operated, on Kapiolani Blvd in a western city. They also had a
Brobdingnagian LogE Apollo process camera that nobody else seemed to be able
to size and focus. (My dummy load for the scanner's 20v, 50A power supply
was a full spool of 12 Ga THHN solid wire.)
Densitometers make "very hard to reproduce" very easy to reproduce. In fact,
one of the Big Box stores uses a form of densitometer, with which they can
read your color sample and supply paint that will dry to exactly match the
sample color. Maybe they would read your bean sample then have you choose
from several scans. Roasted beans are not monochromatic...
Then your roasting would depend greatly on the color temperature of the
ambient light. The northern sky is about 7500K, many jewelers use that kind
of light. I picked up a slew of 8000K ultra high intensity LED's on eBay,
and Office Depot sells some small 9 LED flashlights for cheap. Blindingly
bright, and the color temperature is high
LED's won't dull or age like incandescent lamps or fluorescent lamps.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Could always pick up a Cosar SOS-40 or MacBeth densitometer on eBay- boat
anchors but all good!
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
sweetmarias> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
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