HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Roast goes stale fast (23 msgs / 1287 lines)
1) From: michael kaericher
Does it suggest that I am doing something wrong if my roasts go stale in ~1=
0 days?  =
 
I've been roasting almost exclusively for espresso for about a year now. =
 I started with SM blends, but now I attemp post roast blending SO beans =
(usually Brazils, Ethiopia, and something else Sulawesi-Java-Rwanda).  No=
t really sure why since I am still not able to come up with blends that I l=
ike any better than the SM pre-roast blends (which are also far more conven=
ient to roast).
 
I find that most of my roasts are best at about 4-7 days and are definite=
ly stale by 10.  In contrast, I typically hear that espresso roasts hit t=
heir stride at 7 days.  So I figure that there has to be something wrong =
with how I am doing things.
 
Roast process:
I've been roasting in a Behmor for the last year.  My roasts are almost a=
ll 6-8 oz with the Behmor set to P3  Sometime after the roast s=
tarts, I add lots of time.   I let it run up to 1c and then turn on my =
venting fan and open the Behmor door a crack for 2-3 seconds of every 15 to=
 draw out the run to 2c (this usually gets me about 4 minutes). At the firs=
t pop of 2c, I hit cool.  After cooling I store the roasted coffee in a 1=
 quart yogurt container, where it sits for about 4 days before I start usin=
g it.
 
 
      =
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2) From: Yakster
Michael,
The roast process looks ok.  Have you tried storing your roasted beans in
canning jars?  I'm just wondering if your loosing all your volatiles out of
the yogurt container.  You could split the next batch to compare the storage
methods.
-Chris
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:25 PM, michael kaericher wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: michael kaericher
Sounds like a reasonable test.  I'll give it a shot with the roast I do t=
his weekend.
 
Thanks Chris!
 
-Mike K
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Yakster  wrote:
From: Yakster 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 9:40 PM
Michael,
The roast process looks ok.  Have you tried storing your roasted beans in
canning jars?  I'm just wondering if your loosing all your volatiles out =
of
the yogurt container.  You could split the next batch to compare the stor=
age
methods.
-Chris
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:25 PM, michael kaericher wrot=
e:
<Snip>
Not
<Snip>
ike
<Snip>
nt
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
eir
<Snip>
h how
<Snip>
n my
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
st
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
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4) From: Lynne
I agree with Chris. In addition to the idea that the volatiles might be
escaping, I would be
concerned with just the idea that it's plastic - I remember my ex-boyfriend
lamenting how
his favorite imported olive oil started using plastic for their bottles, and
that was the beginning
of the end for them. Olive oil can get ruined in plastic - might be the same
for coffee.
Be sure to let us know how it turns out when you try the glass jars. That's
all I use, but I
don't do espresso (and I haven't even been homeroasting lately, partly
because of the heat,
partly due to my usual tight finances).
I remember someone did a little experiment way back when I first joined
SM's. Forgot who
it was - but he put some of his homeroast in mason jars, and some in an open
bowl. I remember
that he said the open bowl fared better, but I never was able to be brave
enough to try that!
Lynne
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 6:38 AM, michael kaericher wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Ryan M. Ward
I am curious, has anyone tried those beanvac canisters? (The ones that actually vacuum out the air when you put the beans in)
-- 
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-generated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I send, I encourage you to do the same.
<Snip>
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6) From: Peter Louton
Hi all,
I have tried the canning jar, but I use tupperware for storing mine and I my espresso blends usually hit peak at 5 days and might last a week to 10 days past that.  Although, I must admit I rarely have enough beans to last more than 3 or 4 days, it is only when I travel, that might have some beans that 2+ weeks old.  I'll definitely have to check out the canning jars the next time I travel.
Peter
www.fwcoffeeaddict.com
-- Sent from my Palm Pre
On Jun 29, 2010 11:46, Ryan M. Ward <silvercro_magnon> wrote: 
I am curious, has anyone tried those beanvac canisters? (The ones that actually vacuum out the air when you put the beans in)
-- 
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-generated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I send, I encourage you to do the same.
> From: lynnebiz
> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 08:49:54 -0400
> To: homeroast
> Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
> 
> I agree with Chris. In addition to the idea that the volatiles might be
> escaping, I would be
> concerned with just the idea that it's plastic - I remember my ex-boyfriend
> lamenting how
> his favorite imported olive oil started using plastic for their bottles, and
> that was the beginning
> of the end for them. Olive oil can get ruined in plastic - might be the same
> for coffee.
> 
> Be sure to let us know how it turns out when you try the glass jars. That's
> all I use, but I
> don't do espresso (and I haven't even been homeroasting lately, partly
> because of the heat,
> partly due to my usual tight finances).
> 
> I remember someone did a little experiment way back when I first joined
> SM's. Forgot who
> it was - but he put some of his homeroast in mason jars, and some in an open
> bowl. I remember
> that he said the open bowl fared better, but I never was able to be brave
> enough to try that!
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 6:38 AM, michael kaericher <mike_kae>wrote:
> 
> > Sounds like a reasonable test.  I'll give it a shot with the roast I do
> > this weekend.
> >
> > Thanks Chris!
> >
> > -Mike K
> >
> >> Michael,
> >>
> >> The roast process looks ok.  Have you tried storing your roasted beans in
> >> canning jars?  I'm just wondering if your loosing all your volatiles out
> >> of
> >> the yogurt container.  You could split the next batch to compare the
> >> storage
> >> methods.
> >>
> >> -Chris
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:25 PM, michael kaericher <mike_kae
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> Does it suggest that I am doing something wrong if my roasts go stale in
> >>> ~10 days?
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> Homeroast mailing list
> Homeroast
>http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocidD28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4Homeroast mailing list">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com> Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocidD28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4Homeroast mailing list
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7) From: Yakster
I remember reading on one of the forums that this can do more harm then
good... the theory was that the vacuum was actively removing the aroma from
the beans, but no, I haven't tried these.  I did see one of these at a
thrift store, but passed it up because of what I'd read about them.  The
Wife managed to find three 9 oz Bodum Pavina double-walled glasses at the
thrift store last week for $0.49 each, which was a heck of a deal for a
favorite coffee cup of ours.
I'm a firm believer in canning jars.  I treated myself yesterday to a bag of
Barefoot Coffee Roaster's Yellow Catuai and poured it into the glass jar.
I'll just put the jar inside the bag to identify the contents.
Having said all this, taste is, of course, very subjective and some people
enjoy coffee straight from the roaster while others insist on waiting at
least four days.  I've started drinking right from the roaster lately,
partly due to poor planning but also enjoying the beans as they age.  With
same-day or next-day roasts, I'll try and grind the beans about 15 or more
minutes ahead to let them outgass, especially if I'm pulling espresso from
the beans.  The Bloom pour (pouring about 50 ml of water over the grounds
and allowing them to bloom for 30 seconds before the main pour) for coffee
also takes care of the overly fresh beans and prevents an accident.  The
beans never seems to last more then 14 days.
I'd been bringing in beans for use at work in ziplock bags, but mainly
because I'd use them up in a day or two.  Today I loaded up two one cup
canning jars, one with the Barefoot Yellow Catuai (enjoyable, maybe cactus
like flavors?) and the other with a Tanzanian Peaberry I roasted late last
night while the temps in the garage were still in the 80s.
-Chris
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Ryan M. Ward
wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: raymanowen
"...has anyone tried those beanvac canisters?"
No, but that's only half of the story-
My daughter used to manage a Sharper Image store and brought home one of the
Bean Vac things.  As I remember, it would power up the vacuum pump on the
batteries to maintain the vacuum, as if  Vacuum were the Utopian storage
medium.
As CO2 gas evolved from the fresh-roasted beans, the internal pressure would
rise, signaling an apparent vacuum leak. It would tun on the pump and
exhaust the CO2 gas developing in-situ.
The problem would be releasing the vacuum, opening the lid and pouring out
the beans and remaining CO2.
[Release vacuum = allow air + pure O2 to enter;
Pour out beans = pour out CO2 gas too, Here come the air and pure O2, just
like Open House Day at a Tijuana Cat House...]
If you keep roasted beans in a vacuum, you force O2 in every time you open
the container, whether you want to or not.
The only thing worse would be to grind the coffee and try to store it
"Vacuum packed" like Foulgers. Ever notice there's never a vacuum in those
cans? The CO2 has evolved and developed pressure. That only works because
most people scoop the grounds rather than pouring them and the CO2 out...
If you have a flour mill or a big Mazzer grinder, you have probably noticed
the fabulous difference in bread fresh baked using a dough ball made with
flour ground long ago in a place far away, vs fresh-ground wheat/ oats. Nuff
said.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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9) From: Joseph Robertson
RayO,
All of what you have said here, and I confess I don't have time to digest it
right now getting ready for work, is why I delete the email spam/ads for
these glorified pen holders / nick nack canisters.
Like RayO has explained in such detail. Forget a bout it.
Joseph
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:39 PM,  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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10) From: Mike Davis
The obvious solution is to roast only what stays fresh until the next 
batch.  I don't understand why you would roast more than you could use 
before it goes stale.  No need for vacuum containers and all the fancy 
stuff unless you're trying to retail your roasts, then you have a real 
problem.
Mike Davis
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11) From: Joseph Robertson
These containers are mostly marked to retail vendors. Probably any one who
believes there hype about this container keeping something fresh? Right.
Joseph
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Mike Davis  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
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12) From: sci
"Open House Day at a Tijuana Cat House"
LOL
Seriously, I've been using vacuum bags that are reusable, need no machine,
and can make a tightly collapsed vacuum sealed bag with negative O2 pressure
in 5 seconds. This eliminates the normal problems with vacuum canisters.
Beans stay fresh for 2 weeks, then start to stale. Sure, each time I open
the bag, fresh O2 rushes in, but within seconds I seal the bag and vacuum it
to create negative O2 pressure. Works like a charm every time and I've been
using this inexpensive method for 3 years.
Ivan
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13) From: michael kaericher
OK, the test is underway. Friday night (7/3) I roasted 12oz of Espresso Pro=
fundo to FC, yielding 10oz after roasting.  =
5oz went to the yogurt container
5oz went into a pint sized canning jar =
Both containers were cleaned and dried before use and had no glaring smell =
(though there was a very slight plasticy smell to the yogurt container).
since my wife is on decaf for now and I don't drink at a crazy rate, I will=
 only pull one double shot (from a triple basket) a day, alternating days b=
etween the yogurt container stored coffee and the glass jar stored coffee.
To keep things fair, I will open both containers each day.  The one that =
I am not using will get stirred with a chop stick.
Since I drink cappuccinos, even mild staleness is usually somewhat masked b=
y the milk.  I will judge staleness by smell (which has always been my me=
asure).
Day 1 (today: 7/6): Both container smelled great.  This was my first Espr=
esso Profundo ever.  Definitely chocolate.  Very full bodied and more t=
han capable of standing up for itself in the milk.  Very nice, but ideall=
y it would have a little more dark fruit flavor.
-Mike K
--- On Tue, 6/29/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: " available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htmlAlist to di=
scuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list" 
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 5:38 AM
Sounds like a reasonable test.  I'll give it a shot with the roast I do t=
his weekend.
 
Thanks Chris!
 
-Mike K
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Yakster  wrote:
From: Yakster 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 9:40 PM
Michael,
The roast process looks ok.  Have you tried storing your roasted beans in
canning jars?  I'm just wondering if your loosing all your volatiles out =
of
the yogurt container.  You could split the next batch to compare the stor=
age
methods.
-Chris
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:25 PM, michael kaericher wrot=
e:
<Snip>
Not
<Snip>
ike
<Snip>
nt
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
eir
<Snip>
h how
<Snip>
n my
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
st
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
      =
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
      =
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14) From: Joseph Robertson
Nice test Mike.
True coffee cupping would have nothing to do with milk. That said you may be
able to judge pretty well if all you are used to is your nose as a tool.
Keep in mind the main tool is/ are your taste buds.
"Stale" is a very relative term in the coffee world. Stale to you might not
be stale to the truck driver who is drinking roadside truck stop swill.
What I want to know is when you can taste "stale" without the dairy
added/and/or with the dairy added.
Thanks for the fun test/research.
Joseph
On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 9:57 AM, michael kaericher wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
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15) From: Edward Bourgeois
There might be a couple things possible on the roasting end. If too
much moisture is retained I could see a faster deterioration possible.
I don't have much experience with a Behmor and P3 and manipulations
during 1st crack to know if this might be a factor. Also roasting with
too high a temp. can draw oils that bond with much of the
flavors/aroma to the surface and be more vulnerable to early oxygen
contact but in your situation this doesn't seem to be the case. A fast
and powerful 1st.and/or 2nd crack can cause the bean to over
expand/fracture and also cause faster oxidation.
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:25 PM, michael kaericher  wr=
ote:
<Snip>
~10 days?
<Snip>
  I started with SM blends, but now I attemp post roast blending SO bea=
ns (usually Brazils, Ethiopia, and something else Sulawesi-Java-Rwanda). =
 Not really sure why since I am still not able to come up with blends that =
I like any better than the SM pre-roast blends (which are also far more con=
venient to roast).
<Snip>
tely stale by 10.  In contrast, I typically hear that espresso roasts hit=
 their stride at 7 days.  So I figure that there has to be something wron=
g with how I am doing things.
<Snip>
 all 6-8 oz with the Behmor set to P3  Sometime after the roast=
 starts, I add lots of time.   I let it run up to 1c and then turn on m=
y venting fan and open the Behmor door a crack for 2-3 seconds of every 15 =
to draw out the run to 2c (this usually gets me about 4 minutes). At the fi=
rst pop of 2c, I hit cool.  After cooling I store the roasted coffee in a=
 1 quart yogurt container, where it sits for about 4 days before I start us=
ing it.
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
-- =
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
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16) From: michael kaericher
Day 2  (glass - 7/7): Both container now have a lot more fruit smell, both =
smell about the same (not as good as yesterday, but both very nice). My bre=
w had considerably less body but it was more fruity. I brewed two capps tod=
ay so it my have been that I didn't get as much microfoam in my milk as yes=
terday tricking my tongue.  Oddly, just after brewing, I tasted the dark =
chocolate and fruit, as it cooled a bit, I had mostly fruit with body seemi=
ng do develop as it cooled as well.
-Mike
--- On Tue, 7/6/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: homeroast
Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 11:57 AM
OK, the test is underway. Friday night (7/3) I roasted 12oz of Espresso Pro=
fundo to FC, yielding 10oz after roasting.  =
5oz went to the yogurt container
5oz went into a pint sized canning jar =
Both containers were cleaned and dried before use and had no glaring smell =
(though there was a very slight plasticy smell to the yogurt container).
since my wife is on decaf for now and I don't drink at a crazy rate, I will=
 only pull one double shot (from a triple basket) a day, alternating days b=
etween the yogurt container stored coffee and the glass jar stored coffee.
To keep things fair, I will open both containers each day.  The one that =
I am not using will get stirred with a chop stick.
Since I drink cappuccinos, even mild staleness is usually somewhat masked b=
y the milk.  I will judge staleness by smell (which has always been my me=
asure).
Day 1 (today: 7/6): Both container smelled great.  This was my first Espr=
esso Profundo ever.  Definitely chocolate.  Very full bodied and more t=
han capable of standing up for itself in the milk.  Very nice, but ideall=
y it would have a little more dark fruit flavor.
-Mike K
--- On Tue, 6/29/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: " available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htmlAlist to di=
scuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list" 
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 5:38 AM
Sounds like a reasonable test.  I'll give it a shot with the roast I do t=
his weekend.
 
Thanks Chris!
 
-Mike K
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Yakster  wrote:
From: Yakster 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 9:40 PM
Michael,
The roast process looks ok.  Have you tried storing your roasted beans in
canning jars?  I'm just wondering if your loosing all your volatiles out =
of
the yogurt container.  You could split the next batch to compare the stor=
age
methods.
-Chris
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:25 PM, michael kaericher wrot=
e:
<Snip>
Not
<Snip>
ike
<Snip>
nt
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
eir
<Snip>
h how
<Snip>
n my
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
st
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
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17) From: michael kaericher
Day 3 (plastic - 7/8):Both containers continue to smell good, but the aroma=
 from the plastic container is less intense than that from the glass contai=
ner.  I believe that the glass container beans actually smell better than=
 yesterday, with a sensation that evokes how I feel after swallowing a piec=
e of chocolate cherry cake.
The capp was full bodied from the start.  Again, dark chocolate and fruit=
 --fairly consistently so as it cooled.  It had a slight bitterness that =
went away as it cooled, however today I ran out of milk, so there was less =
dilution to the milk.
-Mike K
--- On Wed, 7/7/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: " available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htmlAlist to di=
scuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list" 
Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 2:01 PM
Day 2  (glass - 7/7): Both container now have a lot more fruit smell, bot=
h smell about the same (not as good as yesterday, but both very nice). My b=
rew had considerably less body but it was more fruity. I brewed two capps t=
oday so it my have been that I didn't get as much microfoam in my milk as y=
esterday tricking my tongue.  Oddly, just after brewing, I tasted the dar=
k chocolate and fruit, as it cooled a bit, I had mostly fruit with body see=
ming do develop as it cooled as well.
-Mike
--- On Tue, 7/6/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: homeroast
Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 11:57 AM
OK, the test is underway. Friday night (7/3) I roasted 12oz of Espresso Pro=
fundo to FC, yielding 10oz after roasting.  =
5oz went to the yogurt container
5oz went into a pint sized canning jar =
Both containers were cleaned and dried before use and had no glaring smell =
(though there was a very slight plasticy smell to the yogurt container).
since my wife is on decaf for now and I don't drink at a crazy rate, I will=
 only pull one double shot (from a triple basket) a day, alternating days b=
etween the yogurt container stored coffee and the glass jar stored coffee.
To keep things fair, I will open both containers each day.  The one that =
I am not using will get stirred with a chop stick.
Since I drink cappuccinos, even mild staleness is usually somewhat masked b=
y the milk.  I will judge staleness by smell (which has always been my me=
asure).
Day 1 (today: 7/6): Both container smelled great.  This was my first Espr=
esso Profundo ever.  Definitely chocolate.  Very full bodied and more t=
han capable of standing up for itself in the milk.  Very nice, but ideall=
y it would have a little more dark fruit flavor.
-Mike K
--- On Tue, 6/29/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: " available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htmlAlist to di=
scuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list" 
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 5:38 AM
Sounds like a reasonable test.  I'll give it a shot with the roast I do t=
his weekend.
 
Thanks Chris!
 
-Mike K
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Yakster  wrote:
From: Yakster 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 9:40 PM
Michael,
The roast process looks ok.  Have you tried storing your roasted beans in
canning jars?  I'm just wondering if your loosing all your volatiles out =
of
the yogurt container.  You could split the next batch to compare the stor=
age
methods.
-Chris
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:25 PM, michael kaericher wrot=
e:
<Snip>
Not
<Snip>
ike
<Snip>
nt
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
eir
<Snip>
h how
<Snip>
n my
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
st
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
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18) From: michael kaericher
Day 4 (glass - 7/9): The glass stored beans are still going strong -smells =
about the same as yesterday.  Plastic stored beans are definitely deterio=
rating --I am smelling the faint hint of harshness that I associate with st=
ale beans.
By the numbers my pull was bad today.  I bumped the grinder a notch finer=
 in anticipation of the older beans needing a finer grind.  Instead my pu=
ll ran 45 seconds.  Despite that, the capp was full bodied and heavy on t=
he dark chocolate, pulling back as it cooled to a more fuity flavor.
-Mike K
--- On Thu, 7/8/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: " available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htmlAlist to di=
scuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list" 
Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 12:33 PM
Day 3 (plastic - 7/8):Both containers continue to smell good, but the aroma=
 from the plastic container is less intense than that from the glass contai=
ner.  I believe that the glass container beans actually smell better than=
 yesterday, with a sensation that evokes how I feel after swallowing a piec=
e of chocolate cherry cake.
The capp was full bodied from the start.  Again, dark chocolate and fruit=
 --fairly consistently so as it cooled.  It had a slight bitterness that =
went away as it cooled, however today I ran out of milk, so there was less =
dilution to the milk.
-Mike K
--- On Wed, 7/7/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: " available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htmlAlist to di=
scuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list" 
Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 2:01 PM
Day 2  (glass - 7/7): Both container now have a lot more fruit smell, bot=
h smell about the same (not as good as yesterday, but both very nice). My b=
rew had considerably less body but it was more fruity. I brewed two capps t=
oday so it my have been that I didn't get as much microfoam in my milk as y=
esterday tricking my tongue.  Oddly, just after brewing, I tasted the dar=
k chocolate and fruit, as it cooled a bit, I had mostly fruit with body see=
ming do develop as it cooled as well.
-Mike
--- On Tue, 7/6/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: homeroast
Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 11:57 AM
OK, the test is underway. Friday night (7/3) I roasted 12oz of Espresso Pro=
fundo to FC, yielding 10oz after roasting.  =
5oz went to the yogurt container
5oz went into a pint sized canning jar =
Both containers were cleaned and dried before use and had no glaring smell =
(though there was a very slight plasticy smell to the yogurt container).
since my wife is on decaf for now and I don't drink at a crazy rate, I will=
 only pull one double shot (from a triple basket) a day, alternating days b=
etween the yogurt container stored coffee and the glass jar stored coffee.
To keep things fair, I will open both containers each day.  The one that =
I am not using will get stirred with a chop stick.
Since I drink cappuccinos, even mild staleness is usually somewhat masked b=
y the milk.  I will judge staleness by smell (which has always been my me=
asure).
Day 1 (today: 7/6): Both container smelled great.  This was my first Espr=
esso Profundo ever.  Definitely chocolate.  Very full bodied and more t=
han capable of standing up for itself in the milk.  Very nice, but ideall=
y it would have a little more dark fruit flavor.
-Mike K
--- On Tue, 6/29/10, michael kaericher  wrote:
From: michael kaericher 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: " available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htmlAlist to di=
scuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list" 
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 5:38 AM
Sounds like a reasonable test.  I'll give it a shot with the roast I do t=
his weekend.
 
Thanks Chris!
 
-Mike K
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Yakster  wrote:
From: Yakster 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 9:40 PM
Michael,
The roast process looks ok.  Have you tried storing your roasted beans in
canning jars?  I'm just wondering if your loosing all your volatiles out =
of
the yogurt container.  You could split the next batch to compare the stor=
age
methods.
-Chris
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:25 PM, michael kaericher wrot=
e:
<Snip>
Not
<Snip>
ike
<Snip>
nt
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
eir
<Snip>
h how
<Snip>
n my
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
st
<Snip>
ng
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmar=iascoffee.com
Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
      =
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19) From: raymanowen
"... Plastic stored beans are definitely deteriorating --I am smelling the
faint hint of harshness that I associate with stale beans."
I Really can't imagine why this happens, unless you are storing the
(Yogurt?) containers inverted. The seal might not be hermetic, nevertheless
any internal pressure would tend to unseat the lid.  Inverted, the first gas
to exit would be the dense CO2.  It's not coming back- Here comes the O2
instead if you pour the beans out
On the bottom of the plastic container is a triangle with an inscribed
number. Try using a container with a different number. Is it a 6 or a 9 ?
The correct orientation is: Flat side down, with vertex up.
If you must use plastic, try an empty pill bottle from the pharmacy with a
different number on the bottom. Or switch now to glass Mason jars and avoid
all the hassle...
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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20) From: Yakster
Mike,
I'm enjoying reading the reports.
Besides the differences in aroma, are you detecting any differences in taste
between the different methods?
-Chris
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 10:49 AM, michael kaericher wrote:
<Snip>
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21) From: michael kaericher
I can't say that I can tell the difference in the cup.  I would think tha=
t with what I am smelling a more competent barista would notice some differ=
ence.  Personally, I am not consistent enough in my espresso production=
, so anything up to a moderate variation in the brewed drink is more than l=
ikely caused by me.  Also, straight espresso would probably provide more =
direct access to the evolving flavors.  Unfortunately, straight espresso =
tends to overwhelm my palate, which is why I drink capps.
 
I am enjoying doing this; thanks for the suggestion.  Even if the ultim=
ate answer is going to simply be that storing beans in glass is a safer bet=
 than mystery plastic at least I will have shown myself that.
 
-Mike K
 
--- On Fri, 7/9/10, Yakster  wrote:
From: Yakster 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Roast goes stale fast
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Friday, July 9, 2010, 10:15 PM
Mike,
I'm enjoying reading the reports.
Besides the differences in aroma, are you detecting any differences in taste
between the different methods?
-Chris
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 10:49 AM, michael kaericher wrot=
e:
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
ull
<Snip>
ma
<Snip>
ter
<Snip>
it
<Snip>
 went
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
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22) From: Justin Schwarz
at this point according to smell alone it seems that the mason jars are holding up considerably better?  My bet is on mason jars, hard to beat a tried & true classic.  Especially when compared to a yogurt container with a lid that does not seal.  Very nice to see a comparison between the two, bravo for that!
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23) From: Steven Van Dyke
At 01:48 AM 7/10/2010, you wrote:
<Snip>
I wonder if the difference is the plastic itself.  The suggestion to 
try another type of plastic would help see if that's the case.
A yogurt container should only exude incredibly small amounts of 
plasticisers or other chemicals but since coffee is such a complex 
thing it wouldn't take much to affect the taste.
Personally, I use mason jars.
Enjoy!
Steve :->
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