HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Is Decaf just staticy? (17 msgs / 707 lines)
1) From: michael kaericher
My wife was recently told she needs to avoid caffeine, so I picked up some =
-Donkey Blend
-Decaf Ethiopia Sidamo WP
-Decaf Brazil Joao de Campos
-Decaf Uganda Bugisu WP
So far, what we have tried has been outstanding. I have roasted the Donk=
ey Blend and the Ethiopia. My wife has really enjoyed both. With Donk=
ey, she's been pleased with her morning capp, saying that she really doesn'=
t feel like she's giving anything up. The Ethiopia, is probably the best=
 coffee that we have ever prepared in our drip machine (it must be well sui=
ted to lower temp brewing, cause our machine is just a basic Krups pro-arom=
a) =
One weird thing that I notice now is that there is a huge difference in sta=
tic from grinding regular coffee compared to decaf in my Vario. When I g=
rind my regular coffee, I see a nice fluffy pile of coffee that mostly come=
s straight down out of the grinder chute. But when I grind the decaf, it=
 goes all over the place and I get something more resembling a crater. =
Has anyone else noticed this? Any ideas why?
-Mike K
      =
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2) From: michael kaericher
My wife was recently told she needs =
to avoid caffeine, so I picked up some =
-Donkey Blend
-Decaf =
Ethiopia Sidamo WP
-Decaf Brazil Joao de Campos
-Decaf Uganda =
Bugisu WP
So far, what we have tried has been outstanding. I
 have roasted the Donkey Blend and the Ethiopia. My wife has really =
enjoyed both. With Donkey, she's been pleased with her morning capp, =
saying that she really doesn't feel like she's giving anything up. The =
Ethiopia, is probably the best coffee that we have ever prepared in our =
drip machine (it must be well suited to lower temp brewing, cause our =
machine is just a basic Krups pro-aroma) =
One weird thing that I
 notice now is that there is a huge difference in static from grinding =
regular coffee compared to decaf in my Vario. When I grind my regular =
coffee, I see a nice fluffy pile
 of coffee that mostly comes straight down out of the grinder chute. =
But when I grind the decaf, it goes all over the place and I get =
something more resembling a crater. =
Has anyone else noticed this? =
Any ideas why?
-Mike K
PS - Sorry this went out twice. I sent a copy yesterday, but have not se=
en it yet, so I am resending.
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3) From: Derek Bradford
I've noticed this with dark roasts, into FC+ and beyond with regular coffee,
but I haven't roasted decaf in a long time and can't remember if I noticed
it there or not.  I'd guess it probably happened with decaf too.  I hate it
when it happens because I lose a lot of coffee and it makes a big mess.
I don't know why it happens, but it has happened to me many times with
various grinders.
--Derek
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, michael kaericher wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Every path but your own is the path of fate.  --Thoreau
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4) From: Joseph Robertson
I believe after roasting your decaf the moisture content is way less because
of the decaf process compared to coffee that has not gone throught that
process and more static is a result???????????
Just thinking outside of my grinder chute.
Joseph
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:40 PM, michael kaericher wrote:
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5) From: michael kaericher
I definitely roasted the Donkey Blend dark, FC+ to Vienna
The Ethiopia probably ended around C+
-Mike K
--- On Wed, 7/7/10, Derek Bradford  wrote:
From: Derek Bradford 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Is Decaf just staticy?
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 3:07 PM
I've noticed this with dark roasts, into FC+ and beyond with regular coffee,
but I haven't roasted decaf in a long time and can't remember if I noticed
it there or not. I'd guess it probably happened with decaf too. I hat=
e it
when it happens because I lose a lot of coffee and it makes a big mess.
I don't know why it happens, but it has happened to me many times with
various grinders.
--Derek
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, michael kaericher wrote:
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seen
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ariascoffee.com
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6) From: Ryan M. Ward
I agree with Joeseph, I think the issue is related to moisture content, and thus density. I am not so sure that the lack of moisture means more static charge per se(suddenly I am reminded of the Vampire Kids episode of south park...), but rather a greater charge density which is able to overcome gravity(and thus cause the sticking).
my $0.02
-- 
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-generated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I send, I encourage you to do the same.
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7) From: Ryan M. Ward
Just out of curiosity. Do you know if the beans were chemically decaffeinated or Swiss water decaffeinated? I catch myself wondering if the two processes would yield a difference in this issue. This would be very interesting pointless trivia to bring home on Thanksgiving!!
-- 
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-generated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I send, I encourage you to do the same.
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8) From: raymanowen
Over 150F, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450 F roasting temperatures=
, would
you really expect to find many water molecules hanging back in the coffee
bean matrix?
The coffee could be decaffeinated with dried camel dung.  It would be 100%
decaffeinated, as far as I am concerned.  I'd never get any caffeine from
it, and after subjection to the roasting temperatures, most of the water
would have left the beans too.
Hot tip: Moisture Content and static charge are the least of your problems
if your grinder came from Grinders-R-Us.
What does static charge do to the cup? I'll look for the fault with that
information.
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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9) From: michael kaericher
It may be sacrilidge, but I think that there are factors outside of cup qua=
lity which affect my life and even my enjoyment of coffee. To that end, =
I would rather my coffee ground as neatly as possible so that I don't worry=
 more than neccessary about cleanup (both work surface and grinder).

I think that my Vario is up to the task. I grind my wife's decaf Donkey =
blend and see the coffee stick to the machine and push away from itself.=
 I attribute this to static. Then a couple of minutes later, I grind my Esp=
resso Profundo yeilding a nice fluffy pile.

Regarding water: I have, on occassion, put a pan of water on the bottom =
shelf of my 400 degree oven. Depending on how much water is in the pan, =
10 minutes later some may still be there. Furthermore, if one drop we=
re left in the pan one day, and two drops left another day, I would have a =
100% difference in water volume. =
That said, I have no idea if there is a difference in water content in the =
bean after roasting. I have no idea if a difference in water content cau=
ses static. I do know that I see a difference in the amount of static us=
ing the same grinder minutes apart. I cannot yet attribute that to the d=
ecaf bean or some difference in roasting.

-Mike K
--- On Wed, 7/7/10, raymanowen  wrote:
From: raymanowen 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Is Decaf just staticy?
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 11:08 PM
Over 150F, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450 F roasting temperatures=
, would
you really expect to find many water molecules hanging back in the coffee
bean matrix?
The coffee could be decaffeinated with dried camel dung. It would be 100%
decaffeinated, as far as I am concerned. I'd never get any caffeine from
it, and after subjection to the roasting temperatures, most of the water
would have left the beans too.
Hot tip: Moisture Content and static charge are the least of your problems
if your grinder came from Grinders-R-Us.
What does static charge do to the cup? I'll look for the fault with that
information.
Cheers, Mabuhay, Iechyd da -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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10) From: michael kaericher
The Ethiopia is water processed. The SM notes say that it is not Swiss W=
ater. Donkey is a blend, so I couldn't say how it is decaffeinated.

I couldn't comment on how processing might affect static, if it does at all=
. I don't even know why I am seeing a difference.

-Mike K
--- On Wed, 7/7/10, Ryan M. Ward  wrote:
From: Ryan M. Ward 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Is Decaf just staticy?
To: homeroast
Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 6:59 PM
Just out of curiosity. Do you know if the beans were chemically decaffeinat=
ed or Swiss water decaffeinated? I catch myself wondering if the two proces=
ses would yield a difference in this issue. This would be very interesting =
pointless trivia to bring home on Thanksgiving!!
-- =
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmi=
c Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-gener=
ated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I =
am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the=
 Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I sen=
d, I encourage you to do the same.
<Snip>
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t, available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
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     =
The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H=
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11) From: Joseph Robertson
Michael,
Sure does not sound like your grinder came from Grinders R-us. I have heard
some good things about the Vario.
JR
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:05 PM, michael kaericher wrot=
e:
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-- =
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
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12) From: raymanowen
If there is something more to the enjoyment of the product of the bean than
the contents of the cup, I've been sitting in the rong damn pew.
While I've been trying to justify the devotion of expensive equipment and
much time to espresso and the less execrable shot, other devotees of the
well-known Seattle Enterprise have been pleasantly surprised by the straight
shots from my Crapesso and BUFF grinder, while the response from many social
coffee drinkers has been a wrinkled nose- "Oh, God- What is This?"
Elmer says, "You gotta wub some people the wong way" [or you're sitting in
the rong pew!]
My wordsmith found another form of sacrilidge: Sacrilege
" [image: Rush is Our Messiah--and this poll is
sacrilidge!!]
 Rush is Our Messiah--and this poll is sacrilidge!! "
Cheers, RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:05 PM, michael kaericher wrot=
e:
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-- =
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
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13) From: Michael
I'm with you on staticky decaf and static-free regular grinds with the  
vario grinder (and other grinders too). I have not found a way to  
avoid static but have a few tricks to make dealing with the results  
more tolerable.
1. Most times I use the vario grinds container with the portafilter  
fork. I made a sawed off funnel* to capture the grinds and keep them  
from running away. The bottom of the funnel is just a bit narrower  
than the top of the portafilter basket so it balances nicely on the  
edges of the basket leaving the center of the basket wide open. The  
top of the funnel is wide enough to catch most of the errant grinds  
but narrow enough to fit under the vario grinds exit chute comfortably.
2. Sometimes I use the vario enclosed grinds container, grind into it,  
shake gently, then pour grinds into the funnel-topped basket for  
tapping down gently, then lifting the funnel, distributing the grinds  
evenly, and then tamping. My decaf doses are typically larger than  
regular coffee doses so this method is useful to contain all the  
grinds in the basket even under static-free conditions.
3. The grinder sits on top of a stainless steel drawer with the  
knockbox inside the drawer. So when I grind, the spilled grinds are  
confined to the top of the drawer platform and can be easily swept  
into the knockbox in the open drawer. It is so convenient for  
cleaning, and also raises the grinder closer to eye level. These  
stainless drawers are a bit pricey but IMO worth the money. And they  
look good too.
* I have a 49 mm basket so the sawed off yogurt baskets most people  
use for the purpose don't work for me. If you have the typical 58mm  
baskets you will have an easier time making a suitable funnel.
On Jul 8, 2010, at 1:11 AM, michael kaericher wrote:
<Snip>
michaelb
espressoperson
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14) From: Ryan M. Ward
"Over 150F, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450 F roasting temperature=
s, =
would you really expect to find many water molecules hanging =
back in the coffee bean matrix?"
Your reasoning seems plausible to me, but I suppose moisture may have been =
an inaccurate term. I was thinking about water content true, but was also t=
hinking thinking about oil content of the beans. Roast beans, the water may=
 evaporate(I am not sure if I believe all of it does in a non-super dark ro=
ast but for the sake of argument, lets suppose it does), but the oil does n=
ot(at least not all of it). Don't believe me? Take a look in the hopper of =
the espresso machine at a Starbucks- bleeding beans. I have never seen oil =
on the surface of dark roasted decaf, only on the surface of dark roasted r=
egular coffee. At least not nearly as much on the decaf(chemically treated =
decaf). Now, the reason I wonder about Swiss water treatment vs. chemical t=
reatment is I wonder if one process removes coffee oils (or a larger amount=
), and the other does not (I speculate that Swiss water may remove less- ag=
ain, I have never looked at dark roasted Swiss water treated beans). =
P.S. I am not an engineer, to the engineers on this list, do you usually co=
nsider oil in the term moisture or does it just refer to water (or other le=
ss viscous fluids)? To be honest, I have never thought about this- but now =
I am kind of curious.
If you dip a sponge in olive oil, can you call it moist?
-- =
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmi=
c Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-gener=
ated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I =
am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the=
 Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I sen=
d, I encourage you to do the same.
<Snip>
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es, would
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15) From: Ryan M. Ward
Interesting.... Swiss water is the only water process I know of... The only others I know of are CO2 and chemical solvent methods. I will have to look into this.
-- 
Ryan M. Ward
*Note: This email was sent from a computer running Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic Koala)http://www.ubuntu.com**Note: This signature was placed here by me and is not automatically-generated-annoying-end-of-email-spam placed here by anyone other than myself. I am a Linux nut and am doing my part to support open source software and the Linux and Ubuntu communities by getting the word out with each email I send, I encourage you to do the same.
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16) From: Mike Chester
From a culinary point of view, oil is not considered to be moisture.  Deep =
frying is a dry form of cooking.
I have seen decaf beans get oily, in fact they seem to get there sooner tha=
n =
regular beans.  I don't know about whether different decaffeinating methods =
remove different components from the beans, but that does seem probable. =
There is a good write-up  on methods of decaffeination on the SM site.  I =
can't remember all of it, but I know that the chemical used in =
decaffeinating is volatile at much lower temperatures than are used in =
roasting  so even if there were any remaining on the beans (which is highly =
unlikely) they would burn off in the roast process.  I also remember that =
the newer water process is different from the Swiss water process but I =
don't remember what the difference is.  I have roasted all three types of =
beans and each has its own preferred profile. The chemical processed does =
not take heat as well as the WP and a more gentle profile must be used.
Mike Chester
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ryan M. Ward" 
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 11:57 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Is Decaf just staticy?
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17) From: Joseph Robertson
RayO,
I tend to look at it this way. The final or finale is as you say the
Personal Palate and the CUP. For me it's all about the process. With out a
good process ie "grinder" etc etc and many more etc's., there is no end Cup.
Like the mountain climbing I used to do. It was not long before discovered I
did not climb the mountain just to be on top or to add it to my list of
mountains I reached the top of like the folks they call peak baggers.
In the end ( and thank god ) I have not reached it yet, I have found it's
about the climb and the road to the top. Or in this discussion, all the
knowledge and stuff It takes to achieve the final Cup. How many do you know
who don't even know what a green coffee bean is in the first place let alone
a god shot?
Just a few musings on my road to a static free, ;^) God Shot.
Now back to the roasting and one of the key tools of the elusive "sweet" cup
of Joe. My new mountain climbing. A little safer sport.
JR
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:28 PM,  wrote:
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ariascoffee.com
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ariascoffee.com
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Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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