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Topic: My New KANGEN water machine.. any others using it? (17 msgs / 287 lines)
1) From: Dennis Parham
My Neighbor who has a health and health and healing company just purchased a KANGEN water purifying machine.. anyone familiar with it? Ive been using it on my espresso floret to my UNIC Diva and also to my water cooler... it has different PH adjustments on the fly! Im using the 8.5 for coffee and tea.... anyone else using one of these ??
Denis Parham
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2) From: Ira
At 11:36 AM 8/14/2010, you wrote:
<Snip>
Well, my search on the internet makes it sound like a scam. The best 
I could come up for buying one was fill out this form with all your 
info including your CC info and fax it to me, but not one peep 
anywhere about what it costs.
Ira
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3) From: Rich
Search for the Japanese manufacturer's US distributor.  Here is teh 
first thing I found that was not produced by either a seller or the US 
importer.http://www.ionizers.org/kangen.html*rubber knee boots on and wading in*
Ira wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: Rich
Well, lookie here.  Seems some people think it may be snake oil, or 
correctly snake water.http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.htmlHomeroast mailing list
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5) From: Rich
And, the DIY $100.00 water machine page.http://redmondfamily.com/Olive%20and%20David/Health/Ionised%20Water/How%20To%20Build%20A%20Water%20IoniserSo, if the store bought gadget sells for 1500 -> 2000+ please send me 
the difference for doing this basic research for you.  Then I can buy a 
new coffee maker.
Dennis Parham wrote:
<Snip>
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6) From: Martin Maney
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:09:15PM -0700, Ira wrote:
<Snip>
Heh.  I started typing "kangen water" into the google search box, and
before I finished that much it had a bunch of similar searh terms to
suggest.  The second one was "kangen water scam" (the first was just
"kangen water", of course).
I like the "snake oil on tap" subtitle of this page:
   http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html    "Ionized"/alkaline water is falsely claimed to be an anti-oxidant. It
    is actually an oxidizing agent...
-- 
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Multilevel marketing doth make fools of us all.
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7) From: Dennis Parham
haha yeah wel li didn't buy it... they did... it cost around $3500 I haven't really done much testing but obviously Coffee is effected by the water we drink... just curious if anyone has also used it... Ive seen a bit about it and my friend who bought it is a Chemical Engineer and his wife do health promotions.. both happen to be in great health too...lol not saying the water did it! lol Anyway... I don't know if Id say it was snake oil but I have not done any tests on it .. just set it to the coffee tea setting I think was 8.5ph and tat was that... 
Dennis Parham
On Aug 14, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Rich wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: Rich
My concern would be just exactly what positive metal ion was in my 
alkaline water.  Stainless steel tends to politely shed chromium ions 
when requested and platinum is a bit pricey silver would be OK though. 
That being said I used to use water right out of the main demineralizers 
for coffee and that made the best tasting coffee you can imagine. 
Absolutely 100% pure water will disolve almost everything.
Dennis Parham wrote:
<Snip>
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9) From: Mike Koenig
For around $250, you can get an RO system, and add on a cartridge with
calcite and magnesium oxide, and get "alkaline" water, without the bitter
taste of pseudoscience.
Anything claiming that water has health benefits beyond simply hydration
sends my BS meter into overload.
--mike
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Joseph Robertson
One thing I like about BS meters is that, as with all scientific instruments
they are adjustable based on one's particular needs.
;^)
Joe
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:52 AM, Mike Koenig  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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11) From: Dennis Parham
yea me too.... but its here to test for free...lol so far I don't notice anything but Im also fighting with SM Puro Scuro blend and Behmor... I think the Behmor just cant get me where I need to be ... no matter how little or large the batch or how I profile it as good as I can in Behmor, its ashy and thin... Im trying my FBR ( original popper I modified ) now... so far seems to look much better... I have an RO system but have not installed it yet as I just moved to new location.... just to clear up any info.. my neighbor doesn't indorse the KANHEN machine... they just bought it to test it out so see if it was tom foolery ( not OUR TOM! lol ) or had any advantage at all... so far it seems Ive tested it more than they have! lol but outside of just making espresso with it.. i don't notice anything different accept that I don't have to drive to the store to get a fresh bottle of RO water... lol Ill plumb in my machine run as I finish my bar and that'll be that... 
Dennis Parham
On Aug 16, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Mike Koenig wrote:
<Snip>
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12) From: Joseph Robertson
Denis,
I'm running a relatively new Nuova Simonelli on my counter. The company
would not install it if I did not put a water filtration system in line. I'm
using a simple carbon prefilter followed by two MH2Everpure cartriges. I
prefer to clean up the water that you have and softening it only if
necessary. RO? Not for me.
Just a small amount of change, 2 cents or more of opinion.
JoeR
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
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13) From: Dennis Parham
yeah.. in my last place I did similar to you.... I ran a similar setup ... on inspection of machines when I moved after running about 1 year.. they were quite clean... I used to have an RO system but with these machines with rotary pump, I was afraid of damaging it... so I went to the higher volume flow rates of just a couple filters in line... at one time I used bottled water as I am now for the time being.... and had access to the KANGEn for testing and convenience.. I am in no way endorsing it! lol as Id suspect anyway.. if you take a mouthful of Kangen water it has already lost its alkalinity before you even gulped it down! lol I haven't done ANY research on it at all accept today to watch the 8 tier MLM sales marketing program that forces them to sell the machine at such incredibly high prices...lol outside of removing heavy metals from a local water source,if any, once its boiled to 200+ degrees... I think its probably pretty safe...lol 
Dennis Parham 
On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Joseph Robertson wrote:
<Snip>
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14) From: Sheila Quinn
Ashy and thin? Sounds nothing like the coffee I get from MY Behmor!
Dennis Parham wrote:
<Snip>
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15) From: Joseph Robertson
My friend and fellow lister here has put over 300 batches through this
little unit and never had any comments even similar to "Ashy and thin"
Joe
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Sheila Quinn wrote:
<Snip>
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16) From: Dennis Parham
I've never had this issue either... But my light just went out on it too... So it's possibly the behmor might need service... I've also ran over 300 roasts with no issue... I need to also check the voltage coming from my new ( 1960s ) GE Americana range/ oven that is I'm this new condo I bought... I'm suspecting low voltAge as now it's impossible to reach 2 nd crack from any bean I have... Hmmm 
Dennis Parham 
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 16, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Sheila Quinn  wrote:
<Snip>
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17) From: raymanowen
To your two questions, my answers are No, No.
After I read a marketing spiel on the Kangen, I remain No,  Emphatic No.
I initially thought it might be worth further consideration when they
referred to "membrane technology." Maybe not, if they can arbitrarily modify
the pH of the water output.
If the pH is not 7.0 without alteration or buffering, it's not pure to begin
with. The (-) Logarithm of the hydrogen ion concentration, in moles per
(liter?) can get there all by itself:
[image: \mathrm{pH} = - \log_{10}(a_{\textrm{H}^+}) =
\log_{10}\left(\frac{1}{a_{\textrm{H}^+}}\right)];
where* a*H is the dimensionless activity quotient of the hydrogen ions.
Electric fork trucks have lead-acid batteries, and I had a couple in the
shop where I rebuilt the phone booth-size 500 amp chargers. Deep cycle
batteries needed to be run down before charging. A load bank and chart
recorder kept track of battery capacity, had my battery repair GAS factor
been even slightly positive.
Cheap insurance was distilled H2O, so there was a steam water still in the
shop. Tap water was a death warrant on the 3,000 pound Gould monsters. There
was one of the cadavers in the corner- the work of some brain donor
somewhere. RO water was only for fire suppression.
Coffee is acidic- between neutral water and orange juice. Adjusting the
water pH above 7 to extract a basic solution will produce a new flavor-
salt- as the acid and base react.
You should ask your cupper if it's right for you.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
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