HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Turning Bottomless Portafilter (64 msgs / 3066 lines)
1) From: Dennis Parham
Well I did it.. went down to machine shop and had the portafilter on my UNIC DIVA turned... a 2-fer deal! was fun! I was allowed to watch! here is the URL I posted on flicker http://www.flickr.com/photos/20226810/sets/72157624800257360/Dennis Parham
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2) From: Dennis Parham
Well I did it.. I went down to machine shop and had the portafilter on my UNIC DIVA turned... a 2-fer deal! was fun! I was allowed to watch! here is the URL I posted on flicker http://www.flickr.com/photos/20226810/sets/72157624800257360/Dennis Parham
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3) From: g paris
Dennis:
very cool.
please let us know if it really does make a difference cuz I got one to do
if it does!!
ginny
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Dennis Parham  wrote:
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4) From: Dennis Parham
Ginny I really like bottomless portafilters.. its great for shots because you can see whats happening.. also no part of the shot makes contact with any other object accept cup... plus it looks cool! ;-) Ive kind of backed off on espresso this last year as a cup all in itself and have been making americanos almost exclusively.. now Im back on my game and realized WOW! I had become sloppy with my shots! Americanos have a way of making a not as good shot an ok shot when mixed with hot water...lol when I recently decided hey I jus twit a shot... I almost threw up! lol ( not really but you know how we all are here... lol ) anyway... I did not drink it and... made it into an americano! :-P but that made me think.. DANG! Ive let myself go! all my experience wasted! Im a failure.. ok I didn't think that either but still.. you now how we all are here ;-) so back to my story... anyway... started making some adjustments nip here tuck there... lift.. settle... and shots are back on track! its like playing a Stradivarius... or acceptable copy.. well, not us here.. you know how we are. ;-) lol 
Dennis Parham
On Aug 24, 2010, at 9:01 PM, g paris wrote:
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5) From: raymanowen
That's neat, Dennis! This non-machinist is imagining going over to the
vo-tech machine shop in the career enrichment park. The hope was to interest
a student in making some money, either by milling out existing pf bottoms or
by building new ones [whatever] size.
A moot point with super-autos, but I wonder how the manufacturers fine-tune
the espresso cuckoo clocks, since there is no incentive to watch after the
*$ employee selects the right button.
It could have been a big draw at the *Automat* in NYC. Was the S-I ferry
still a nickel when we were there? Dad called it the Nickel Ferry
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
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6) From: raymanowen
One more thing-
Take a good look at the 4-jaw chuck on the lathe. It weighs more than 75
pounds, and all it does is hold the little brass porta-filter casting. The
piece being machined is tiny compared to the 1-ton (+) machine , to permit
precise machining operations. The pf (workpiece) could be the last one in
existence, as far as the machinist is concerned.
The 5-pound toys from Grinders-R-us are the worst evil that could be
inflicted on coffee. The grounds look like Mars surface rubble and we wonder
about flavor and stalling.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
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7) From: Richard Ferguson
Here is something else to keep in mind.  Have an apron handy if you are
pulling a shot before work with a bottomless portafilter.  You never know
when a jet might strike and get your pants dirty.  Not like this has
happened to me or anything. =)
Richard
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Dennis Parham  wrote:
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8) From: Joseph Robertson
Bottomless portafilter really means make sure you got your bottoms on when
pulling your first shots of the day. ;^)
Not that I have done anything like that, ;0000.
Joe
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 4:03 AM, Richard Ferguson wrote:
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9) From: Dennis Parham
shah well I guess Ive been pretty lucky! Ive never had one of those fortunately! lol my tighty whiteys stay white! however I have had one to the back splash... so.. seems to me if you do everything back asswords you'll be ok! lol I tend to do things backwards! in this case its paid off! HAHA
Dennis Parham
On Aug 25, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Joseph Robertson wrote:
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10) From: raymanowen
"You never know when a jet might strike..."
I had 'em all over the place (3 or 4 at least) after I converted the
Crapesso by removing the three plastic flow-restriction discs from the
bottom of its portafilter handle. Pre- castration, there were four surfaces
facing each other that were inaccessible for cleaning- not a good situation.
Even my Simple Green/ Dishwasher detergent Witches Brew didn't clean it
The flow restriction would create back pressure with any grind and packing,
hence the plastic "tamper." Got a better one- 52.9mm tamper for the 53.3mm
filter basket or about 0.017" clearance. The Idiot Savant that designed the
machine had the theory that one is not bothered by things he cannot see. (Or
so said Marketing)
The "coffee jets" are a good indication that the packing and tamping are
uneven, otherwise, why would any filter perforation have more pressure and
flow than others ? In ideal espresso brewing, the packing is homogeneous and
the flow resistance generates the 9 bar back pressure. That pressure only
exists at the very top of the puck, and diminishes to Zero at the bottom,
for a melange brew. That's the way everyone likes it, so...
The flow restriction/ pressure regulation south of the puck is probably a
good idea, with a larger diameter pf = less pressure variation through the
puck. If the puck were just 1 grain deep, there would be no pressure drop
when the water passed the coffee field.
Which would be harder to cross,  an acre of corn in a 209' square field or a
mile long field, just crossing the narrow 8ft 3inch strip?
My demi just fits over the open bottom of the pf handle, so I just watch the
show through the glass. No apron needed. Different-sized porta filters
should brew and extract differently.
The fact that a few perforations spray out while the rest just flow is the
first step in  trouble shooting.  Don't ignore it- solve it and your
espresso just gets better. + Roasting, + Grinding.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect different results - suborn Insanity...
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11) From: Joseph Robertson
Right on RayO. Bottomless is a great tamper teacher and then some.
JR
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 2:33 PM,  wrote:
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12) From: miKe mcKoffee
To be accurate pulling nekkid shots well is more about distribution than the
virtually unnecessary tamp. I can pull totally untamped nekkid shots no
problem with the shot. (Problem is tends to dirty up the group screen way
fast.)
Slave to the Bean miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.compasscoffeeroasting.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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13) From: Dennis Parham
hehehe
On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:24 PM, RaymanOwen wrote:
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14) From: Dennis Parham
hmm.... a lathe could make a fine grinder! lol clamp in some burs and some sort of funnel! ehhee
D
On Aug 25, 2010, at 1:52 AM, RaymanOwen wrote:
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15) From: Dennis Parham
ok heres a triple of SM PURO SCURO FC++ with my UNIC DIVA with newly de-bottomed portafilter.... hmmmmm petty yummy that is!http://www.flickr.com/photos/20226810/4933065878/in/set-72157624696179049/Dennis Parham
On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:28 AM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
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16) From: g paris
where can I get my La Valentina made bottomless?
g
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Dennis Parham  wrote:
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17) From: Dennis Parham
Will Les do it? I know you can send to espressoparts.com , my guy here might could get him to do it but I cant guarantee Im timely on returning it in mail since I work so many hrs... he has my other one there buy I couldn't wait to pick it up lol have to go back next monday unless its a holidaaaa........ well DANG! it IS! so that means not till tuesday! DOH! lol call any local machine shop. mom and pop one... there has to be plenty.. thats what  idid... he did it while I waited.. one of them.. the other I could not wait for.. lol
Dennis Parham
On Aug 27, 2010, at 7:00 PM, g paris wrote:
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18) From: g paris
timely is not an issue for me, I have the rest of my life which I figure is
at minimum another 60 years!!!
I forgot all about Les but he is so busy. I will give him a call.
I want bottomless!! will send pictures!!
love ya,
g
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Dennis Parham  wrote:
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19) From: Joseph Robertson
Ginny,
I had a friend of my take the pf to his shop and use a hand drill / Vise to
hold it and a hole saw to cut mine out. From now on I will do my own.
The chrome coating is real thin. the core is bronze I think. Very easy to
cut with a hole saw.
Joe
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:00 PM, g paris  wrote:
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20) From: John A C Despres
I did mine with a hack saw and then finished it on the mill then buffed it
to perfection.
John
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Joseph Robertson wrote:
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21) From: Demian Ebert
I cut mine out with a hole saw and smoothed out the rough edges with a
dremel. Worked just fine and I didn't even have a vise
Demian.
On 8/27/10, John A C Despres  wrote:
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22) From: Joseph Robertson
Demian,
Good for you.
I'm pretty sure my friend held it by hand. I was thinking that a vise might
come in handy.
Joe
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Demian Ebert  wrote:
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23) From: raymanowen
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24) From: Joseph Robertson
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25) From: raymanowen
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26) From: g paris
any particular place to cut, just at the largest point   at bottom before it
slopes?
I can cut it, I have two so if I do screw on it it's ok through I am very
handy that way. I even have a vise!!
g
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Demian Ebert  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

27) From: Dennis Parham
Ginny did you see this reference page?http://tinyurl.com/bottomlessportafilterDennis Parham
On Aug 28, 2010, at 8:00 AM, g paris wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

28) From: dennis true
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29) From: Dennis Parham
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30) From: g paris
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31) From: John Borella
 I made my Microcasa bottomless p/f using a hole saw in a drill press. 
Dressed it with hand files & it looks professionally done. P/F was clamped 
in a vice securely clamped to the d/p shelf. Also opened up a La Spaziale 
bottomless the same way when I went to a triple basket. It's not rocket 
science but you do need to exercise common sense & take the same precautions 
you should be using around any power tool.
John B.

32) From: Joseph Robertson
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33) From: dennis true
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34) From: Joseph Robertson
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35) From: Joseph Robertson
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36) From: Joseph Robertson
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37) From: Dennis Parham
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38) From: Demian Ebert
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40) From: Dennis Parham
I wonder how many twists and turns our list will go through in 60 years! WOW! what a RIDE! hehe Wonder if we will all be using super autos by then! lol water will somehow be able to be boiled at higher temps to extract things never tasted before! ... noses will be "enhanced" with electronic receptors so we can experience everything to a factor of 10! HMMM...... lol then the big GLOBAL Coffee Consortium of 2041 that starts mining the moon for special ore for coffee growing here on Earth! WOW! hehehe ok ok back to earth! lol But at least we all are  going to grow together! hehe
Dennis Parham
On Aug 27, 2010, at 8:01 PM, g paris wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
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41) From: Joseph Robertson
Grow or die early, standing water or people go bad in a short time.  What's
that thing, " a rolling stone gathers no....." Use and exercise then ole'
brain cells. Coffee helps with all those synapses. Bare bottom those pf's.
Less to clean at the end of the day.
Ramble, Ramble, on.... , back to work.
JR
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Homeroast mailing list
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42) From: Justin Schwarz
This is kind of becoming a dead horse but i'll throw in my 2¢, I have don=
e a few of these using nothing more than vice grips on a bench, a cordless =
drill and a dremel.  I attached to the first part of the handle that is met=
al arranged in such a way that if the drill were to sieze in the process it=
 would not fly away.  I used a 2" hole saw and a cordless drill with plenty=
 of cutting oil, brass is pretty soft stuff so as long as you are using low=
 speed it didnt seem all that dangerous to me. If you are not familiar with=
 drilling metal be careful (especially when the hole is almost complete), b=
ut no need to be afraid of the relatively simple process. A cordless drill =
with a clutch chuck works great. Once the hole was cut finishing touches we=
re performed with a dremel, no sharp edges. =
The only time I have injured myself drilling through metal was with an elec=
tric (plug in type) drill they are far less forgiving than a cordless. 1/2 =
inch hole through 3/8" steel overhead on top of a 12' ladder, the bit sieze=
d as I punched through the last bit of the hole and twisted my hand pretty =
bad, broke the bit, droped the drill and almost fell off the ladder.
With all of that being said, the one Dennis had professionally turned in a =
machine shop looks beautiful and I am jealous about that perfect bevel on t=
he underside, how much did it cost?  =
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

43) From: Jim Gundlach
I simply cut the bottom off mine with an about one inch Dremel cutting blade.  A simple cut with the blade inside the portafilter and a little rounding of the edges took about five minutes at the most.  The wear on the blade was maybe a third of a blade that cost about fifty cents.
     pecan jim
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44) From: Dennis Parham
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X2l0ZW1JZD03ODIw

45) From: Joseph Robertson
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ODIw

46) From: Rich
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47) From: miKe mcKoffee
Been involved in and read discussions of shot perceived difference, if any,
between nekkid and spouted for close to a decade. Many of these discussions
with some of the most acute palates in the world often using the most
cutting edge equipment in the world like Roburs or Versalab grinders and
GS3s or Speetsters etc. (And everthing on down.) Don't recall temperature of
the resulting cup ever being an issue. Usually biggest perceived difference
is in the "unstirred" straight shot with spouted being creamier texture
versus nekkid. Stir the shot and difference bye-bye.
If someone thinks they can pull a couple or few shots a day and be even
close to 90% consistent without ongoing shot feedback IMO quite delusional.
Indeed quite a bit of can be gleened watching spouted flow (with years of
experience not just an afternoon of instruction), but not as much or as
rapidly as pulling nekkid. It ain't primarily about showy shots, it's about
quality shot production. 
And a HUGE advantage of pulling nekkid in a busy environment is the PF
doesn't need periodic cleaning at all, zero, zip. No old coffee clinging to
spout and crevices degrading shots. Baskets easily kept clean rinsing just
rinsing both sides same time post shot flushing group after each shot and
wiping dry. During the day periodic water backflushes and basket steam
cleaning all that's needed to keep it clean and shot quality high.
The biggest complaint I hear from some people using nekkid PF's is mess from
frequent spraying. If that's a constant problem PF build technique is faulty
plan and simple. Pulling with spout will merely mask it not correct it.
miKe
<Snip>
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48) From: Peter Louton
I agree with Mike that practice makes better, but I find that the crema does drastically change the taste of the shot and I have been known to scoop off the crema and drink only what's left.  To really stir the crema, check out James Hoffman's Video about crema at www.jimseven.com/2009/07/06/video-1-crema 
Peter
-- Sent from my Palm Pre
On Aug 29, 2010 13:42, miKe mcKoffee <mcKona> wrote: 
Been involved in and read discussions of shot perceived difference, if any,
between nekkid and spouted for close to a decade. Many of these discussions
with some of the most acute palates in the world often using the most
cutting edge equipment in the world like Roburs or Versalab grinders and
GS3s or Speetsters etc. (And everthing on down.) Don't recall temperature of
the resulting cup ever being an issue. Usually biggest perceived difference
is in the "unstirred" straight shot with spouted being creamier texture
versus nekkid. Stir the shot and difference bye-bye.
If someone thinks they can pull a couple or few shots a day and be even
close to 90% consistent without ongoing shot feedback IMO quite delusional.
Indeed quite a bit of can be gleened watching spouted flow (with years of
experience not just an afternoon of instruction), but not as much or as
rapidly as pulling nekkid. It ain't primarily about showy shots, it's about
quality shot production. 
And a HUGE advantage of pulling nekkid in a busy environment is the PF
doesn't need periodic cleaning at all, zero, zip. No old coffee clinging to
spout and crevices degrading shots. Baskets easily kept clean rinsing just
rinsing both sides same time post shot flushing group after each shot and
wiping dry. During the day periodic water backflushes and basket steam
cleaning all that's needed to keep it clean and shot quality high.
The biggest complaint I hear from some people using nekkid PF's is mess from
frequent spraying. If that's a constant problem PF build technique is faulty
plan and simple. Pulling with spout will merely mask it not correct it.
miKe
>

49) From: Joseph Robertson
Peter,
I saw this video when it first came out and had a lot of question and doubt
about it. I have mentioned it before here so I won't doddle long here as I
got some negative comments.
I for one like my creama not stirred in. Kind of like Martini's or butter
side up or butter side down.
In the case of James video/analysis of the taste difference with and without
creama I wanted to know what a science professional and master coffee
roaster and owner of CoffeeLabs International would have to say about this
video so I forwarded it on to him for a comment. After viewing the video he
got back to me and only had a one word comment. "Rubbish" I'm sure he means
no direct disrespect for a former WBC. I think he strongly just disagrees
with James on this point. Besides isn't taste subjective anyway?
He said that the creama holds some very important components of espresso and
named the chemicals by name. Damned if I can remember that part.
Remove them and guess what. It's not what it was and in my mind surely not
what the machine was designed to put out. IMNSHO
Just a few pennies to add before I have to close up the shop.
JoeR
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Peter Louton 

50) From: Barry Luterman
I have tried it both ways many times. Although it is true crema by itself is
not good and crema floating on top is only slightly better. The best seems
to be crema stirred into the brew. At least to my taste.
On Aug 29, 2010 7:10 PM, "Joseph Robertson"  wrote:
<Snip>
doubt
<Snip>
without
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
means
<Snip>
and
<Snip>
peter
<Snip>
scoop
<Snip>
>>
<Snip>
any,
<Snip>
discussions
<Snip>
difference
<Snip>
delusional.
<Snip>
about
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
just
<Snip>http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com<Snip>http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com<Snip>http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20Homeroast mailing list">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com<Snip>http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com<Snip>http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.com<Snip>http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20Homeroast mailing list
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51) From: Yakster
After first seeing the video, I tried it skimmed and stirred but I seem to
prefer the crema on top.
This, no doubt, is not only affected by personal preference, but the coffee
used and crema produced.  I once had a barista at Verve serve me an espresso
recommending that I stir this one, which I did.  I don't have any reference
for comparison and I just took him at his word, but I had no reason to doubt
him and the espresso was quite good.
-Chris
(sent from mobile device)
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52) From: Joseph Robertson
Barry,
When in class with Mane' I noticed he always added sugar and stirred it and
drank it. Everyone seems to have their taste and technique.
I have tasted some really fine espresso at miKe's shop in Vancouver. I guess
I just got used to tasting spro straight with out stirring or adding
anything. Seems like the only way I can tell what I'm doing with my own is
to take it straight like single malt scotch. Sure looking forward to a spro
crawl with Bry.
JoeR
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Barry Luterman  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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53) From: Bill S.
Thanks KiKe, as always,
You are the "nekkid portafilter" of this blog--
Nothing comes between you and trying to get the best coffee into the cup;
You call the shot exactly as it is;
You help us make better coffee, which is one of the things in life which
makes us smile.
BillS.
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 1:40 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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54) From: Bill S.
MiKe,
Please forgive my misspelling..
BillS.
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Bill S.  wrote:
<Snip>
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55) From: raymanowen
One more thing to add to this espresso brewing thread- This wannabe also
does not like the coffee grounds or fines of any kind to float up the column
of water from the group.
"...[miKe] can pull totally untamped nekkid shots no problem...
(Problem is tends to dirty up the group screen way fast.)"
Is that all- nothing north of the screen harbors some ultra-fine floaters in
the passages?
I have some hard white cereal bowls and saucers. Pure water from the wand
always makes a pristine crystal clear puddle when I'm pre-heating and
looking through the glass demi, then cycling some hot water back to the
reservoir.
100° F reservoir water doesn't bother the 55w vibe pump- ( Yay, Crapesso!=
 )
but the thermoblock heater thinks it's growing muscles, when it's just
lifting smaller weights twice.
Temperature surfing to brew a shot of espresso is still a fact of life on
the little bugger, and a disc of bleached and rinsed filter paper retained
by a Gold [brass] mesh disc on top of the puck stops All the potential
grounds floaters. Maybe only stops 0.998, but of the Four Great Leaps
Forward in espresso brewing for me, this little pre-filter was #3.
#1 was the Grinder, and I thought "That's all, folks- can't get any better
than this."
#2 was flash or surface freezing the beans in a pressed-flat ZipLoc sandwich
bag before grinding. Better grinding and destroys heat in advance [That's
It]
#3 Described above- [No flavors extraneous to the fresh grounds- Can't get
any better]
#4 was Vibro-compacting the grounds in the basket, followed by almost Zero
tamp- just enough tamp to smooth and level the top in conjunction with step
#3. [Shot got better yet]
#N Was ist um die Ecke? Es ist schon zu viel Spaß!
Cheers, Mabuhay, Prost -RayO, aka Opa!
-- =
Persist in old ways; expect new results - enjoy the Insanity...
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56) From: g paris
to botom or not.
I usually do not agree with my friend MiKe but I must say that tasting is
far better then seeing and I am not sure
that I do not see enough with my bottoms on!!
That aid I may try it for the hell of it to see if the coffee really tastes
different but my guess it that is does not.
Looks way cool, lots of jazz factor but does it really taste better?
ginny
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Bill S.  wrote:
<Snip>
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57) From: Bryan Wray
Just to weigh in late, without having read many of the discussion early on:
Re: Spouted vs. No-Spouts-     Most of the differences between spoute=
d and spoutless PF have to do with the amount of crema each type of PF prod=
uces and which type of coffee.
First, the general facts:- Bottomless produce more crema- Crema leads to a =
fuzzy, thicker mouthfeel in espresso
My Opinions:- Crema (very generally) contains the majority of the sharp, so=
ur flavors in espresso.  These flavors typically persist 2/3 of the way b=
ack and 1/2" off the centerline of the tongue in my experience, although th=
ere is not actually a "taste map" as many people think.- A great number of =
aromatics escape during the "scraping" of crema, which was previously actin=
g as a crust.
My Conclusions from "Facts vs Opinions"A shot that has come from a spouted =
portafilter is going to taste more balanced, however, balance can often com=
e across as lacking or boring to some.  When you reduce the amount of cre=
ma on the shot you also reduce the thick feeling of the espresso.  You al=
so (in my opinion) decrease the amount of flavor in the shot because you ha=
ve reduced the sharp, sour flavors.  The shot is, essentially, tamer and =
more "controlled."
Also, to speak to what Mike said, I've been using both styles of portafilte=
rs for 4 years now, often in side by side comparisons, and in my opinion it=
's a little silly to use portafilters with spouts.  They ARE dirtier, no =
matter how much scrubbing you think you are doing.  Dirty equipment= bi=
tter shots.  Also, when something goes wrong on a bottomless portafilter =
you immediately know.  It jets/sprays/channels and you have a visible sig=
n.  Why wouldn't you want to know immediately when something has gone wro=
ng?  If your shot sprays, something IS wrong.  The only way to see spra=
y is to go bottomless.
As a small side note... In regards to James' blog about crema scraping... I=
 think it's important to know James when judging this post.  I've spoken =
with James a number of times at different trade-shows, jams and whatnot. =
 It isn't like we are best buds or anything, but you do get a sense of th=
e type of person someone is by following their writing for a long time and =
I've been following James' blog for a number of years, rather religiously. =
He's a great guy and INCREDIBLY smart.  One of the first things you note =
when you meet James is how (sometimes somewhat annoyingly) inquisitive he i=
s.  He challenges anyone to speak against his findings openly.  He want=
s as many people to go out and try to prove him wrong as possible, because =
at least then SOMEONE understands what is going on.  Sometimes this comes=
 back to burn him later (think his infamous "Chemex technique" instructiona=
l video), but ultimately, he just wants to stir the pot and get people
 thinking.  Sometimes, it's purely for his own enjoyment, just to see how=
 many people he can get on board with one of his ideas.  Blogs are just t=
hat... blogs.  Journals.  Thoughts that are often based solely on opini=
on.  I find it a little humorous that anyone on here with an espresso set=
up that has a price tag under $2000(ish) would be willing to completely wri=
te off James' conclusions about scraping crema.
-bry
Bryan Wray
Nor'West Coffee
360.831.1480
Bryan
It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine =
delivery service, it can be a culinary art- Chris Owens
--- On Mon, 8/30/10, raymanowen  wrote:
From: raymanowen 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Turning Bottomless Portafilter
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 2:22 PM
One more thing to add to this espresso brewing thread- This wannabe also
does not like the coffee grounds or fines of any kind to float up the column
of water from the group.
"...[miKe] can pull totally untamped nekkid shots no problem...
(Problem is tends to dirty up the group screen way fast.)"
Is that all- nothing north of the screen harbors some ultra-fine floaters in
the passages?
I have some hard white cereal bowls and saucers. Pure water from the wand
always makes a pristine crystal clear puddle when I'm pre-heating and
looking through the glass demi, then cycling some hot water back to the
reservoir.
100° F reservoir water doesn't bother the 55w vibe pump- ( Yay, Crapesso!=
 )
but the thermoblock heater thinks it's growing muscles, when it's just
lifting smaller weights twice.
Temperature surfing to brew a shot of espresso is still a fact of life on
the little bugger, and a disc of bleached and rinsed filter paper retained
by a Gold [brass] mesh disc on top of the puck stops All the potential
grounds floaters. Maybe only stops 0.998, but of the Four Great Leaps
Forward in espresso brewing for me, this little pre-filter was #3.
#1 was the Grinder, and I thought "That's all, folks- can't get any better
than this."
#2 was flash or surface freezing the beans in a pressed-flat ZipLoc sandwich
bag before grinding. Better grinding and destroys heat in advance [That's
It]
#3 Described above- [No flavors extraneous to the fresh grounds- Can't get
any better]
#4 was Vibro-compacting the grounds in the basket, followed by almost Zero
tamp- just enough tamp to smooth and level the top in conjunction with step
#3. [Shot got better yet]
#N Was ist um die Ecke? Es ist schon zu viel Spaß!
Cheers, Mabuhay, Prost -RayO, aka Opa!
-- =
Persist in old ways; expect new results - enjoy the Insanity...
Homeroast mailing list
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
      =
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58) From: Jim Gundlach
To botomless or not?
When this was discussed on this list a few years agO, that "o" was capitalized by a kitten standing on the shift key, I opened up the portafilter, rubbed the inside with a finger and applied that finger to my tongue and decided to take the bottom out rather than clean it as often as needed.  
     
     pecan jim 
On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:54 PM, g paris wrote:
<Snip>
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59) From: Mike Koenig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aHA/ZzJfaXRlbUlkPTc4MjA=

60) From: Allon Stern
On Aug 31, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Mike Koenig wrote:
<Snip>
I think your spare PF will become your primary PF ;)
I've starting playing with bottomless for the first time, and I'm already a convert. Sure, it's one more thing to obsess over (ooh, damn, got a pinhole over there) but if coffee isn't already an obsession, you're in the wrong place.
-
allon
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61) From: Scace, Gregory E. Mr.
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ODIw

62) From: sci
The bottomless PF is one of the best and easiest innovations ever, not to
mention inexpensive. Espresso is so finicky and so many things can and do go
wrong. The BPF helps eliminate many of those pesky variables. IF the shots
turn out a little too sharp or too much crema, there are ways to compensate
for that more easily than the things that go wrong with a spouted PF which
you never know.
If you don't have a BPF, run, don't walk, to the nearest place you can get
one for your machine.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Astoria Junior with BPF
Mazzer SJ
Ultra pure water filtration/softener
Ivan
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63) From: Joseph Robertson
Ivan,
What can go wrong with a spouted PF other than never cleaning it. What I
think is wrong with a spouted PF is that there is no way to tell if your
tamping is even and consistent. I don't believe it has any function other
than funneling shots in two or a single direction.
JR
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:24 PM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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64) From: Bryan Wray
Greg,Perhaps I should watch my wording more closely, but I never meant to i=
mply that a bottomless PF actually produces more crema, it simply yields=
 more crema.
In the end, it's about someone's opinion.
My opinion is that it's rather foolish to not use what is essentially a typ=
e of X-Ray vision into what is happening with a shot.  If I'm pulling on =
bottomless and I have a pinhole, I know it; on a spouted, I have no clue (u=
nless it's a giant pinhole and I see a flash of white in the split-stream).
Obsess over staring at an extraction?  I would hope EVERYONE obsesses ove=
r staring at the extraction.  With that in place, a bottomless PF lets yo=
u see more of the extraction.  Why wouldn't you want to see more?
To me it's like putting splitters below a V60 pour over.  What the hell i=
s the point?  Cooling it off?  Why not try NOT preheating the serving v=
essel/demi to damn near 200 F?  I'd would sooo much rather cool my shot=
 in a demitasse than on metal PF spouts.
If the acid from espresso can slowly eat away at the holes in a basket what=
 do you think it's doing to the spouts?  When was the last time you repla=
ced those spouts?
If you want to dissolve the layers of a shot of espresso, use a spoon... th=
at's why it's on the saucer.
Little things to think about I suppose...  Again, in the end, it's about =
someone's opinion.  I still see no merit to spouts.
-bry
Bryan Wray
Compass Coffee
360.831.1480
Bryan
It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine =
delivery service, it can be a culinary art- Chris Owens
--- On Tue, 8/31/10, Joseph Robertson  wrote:
From: Joseph Robertson 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Turning Bottomless Portafilter
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list,=
 available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 7:03 PM
Ivan,
What can go wrong with a spouted PF other than never cleaning it. What I
think is wrong with a spouted PF is that there is no way to tell if your
tamping is even and consistent. I don't believe it has any function other
than funneling shots in two or a single direction.
JR
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:24 PM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
te
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
-- =
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
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      =
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