HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Moka pot coffee (54 msgs / 1602 lines)
1) From: Strega7
Hi,
As a real "Newbie" to home roasting & getting many good tips on brewing in my 
new Yama vac. pot over the past couple of months, I'm wondering if anyone is 
using a Moka pot for their morning coffee? Lots of information from the Miss 
Silva group, but I don't think I've graduated to that super sounding machine 
-- yet. After looking at the photo's of Sweet Maria's "Amore" & "Pallerno 
Oro" moka pots, would I gain better coffee from a moka pot than the Yama? 
What would the grind be for the moka? The moka pot does sound simpler for 
coffee when time is short in the mornings. Any feedback on the moka pots 
would be appreciated before I purchase one of these great looking machines.
Thanks, again --
Smitty in Vegas      

2) From: Jim Schulman
Can't compare it to vac-pot brew, because I've never had that. 
I've used a mokapot for years. In my poorer days, a handgrinder, a mokapot, 
and a sharp lookout for where to score Vienna roasted beans were my only 
coffee gear. IMO, it makes a more heavybodied coffee than drip or press. I've 
brewed all types of coffee in it; but I think it only outshines the alternatives 
with darker roasts (dark full city and beyond).
Basic tips:
Go with steel; aluminum ones taste metalic (Tom's look really cool)
Buy separate pots for the quantities you need; trying to make a little in a 
larger pot doesn't do well
Grind finer than drip; not as fine as espresso.
S l o w  is best. Use the lowest heat your patience allows (you can use high 
heat to get the water to a near boil, if you want). I get my best pots when the 
brewing takes 4 to 5 minutes; the smell is nice too. (I don't think you'll get 
done any faster than with the vacpot, sorry)
Jim Schulman
On 1 Mar 2002 at 14:29, Strega7 wrote:
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

3) From: Strega7
Thanks Jim,
Good information on the moka pot! I've been using a Zassen. grinder that I 
ordered along with a HW Precision roaster. With only two people drinking 
coffee, the hand grinder not only looks good but with a little effort is 
adequate for our coffee habits.
I think the stronger coffee the moka may brew over the Yama is what I'm 
looking for.
Thanks again.
Smitty/Vegas

4) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Every once-in-a-while, when I walk through a kitchen store, I look at 
the Moka Pots and I wonder. They're so simple, and not very expensive.
I have yet to read on this list anyone saying, "I'm just sipping this 
out-of-this-world moka coffee, and wondering if life can get any better".
So if you wouldn't mind, could you characterise the taste for me?
Is it like French Press, with something added, or like espresso, but 
missing a certain something?
Sweet Maria's page says it's between espresso and Turkish, but I've 
never had a Turkish so can't imagine it.
Those of you who make it, is it only a substitute when you can't get to 
an espresso, or do you, on occasion, prefer it.
My context is, that I occasionally drink espresso at a coffee bar, but 
don't crave it, so will never spend the money to make my own.
I"m very happy with vac pot, French Press, and single-cup gold filter, 
as long as its made with my fresh-roasted coffee.
Dave S.

5) From: Wandering John
I have a couple of those Moka pots.  I bought one years ago before I
bought a real espresso machine.  It took awhile to get it right, but
it makes a pretty good espresso.   I was given a second unit by a
friend who gave up trying.  Poor guy was trying to use Folgers.  I
tried to show him but he had become disgusted and just gave it to me. 
We have used the second one as a traveling espresso machine a couple
of times  - but honestly we prefer the brew from our press pot when
traveling.  The Moka takes a lot of attention to detail.
John - loving life in the slow lane
On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:12:17 -0500, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
 wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Edward Spiegel
At 6:12 PM -0500 9/18/04, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote:
<Snip>
Moka Pot coffee prepared correctly can be awesome. It isn't really like espresso except that it is very rich -- some people are disappointed because in the U.S. Moka Pots are sold as stovetop espresso makers.
To my palate, it is something like a VERY rich filter coffee. The secret is to heat the water slowly so that the water temp is below boiling point when it goes from bottom to top. I used to use it and not like it and discovered that I was heating the water too quickly and so was getting something like what you get out of a steam-based espresso machine. But if you heat the water gently the coffee is very flavorful (a bit too intense for some people).
--Edward

7) From: Peter Schmidt
If I could, I would like to tack on another question.  I use a Krups Moka
Brew, finding it to be full, rich coffee, better than drip IMO.  And I'm
wondering, since I have yet to use a moka-pot, does the Moka Brew come
close?
peter/ milwaukee
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

8) From: Lesley Albjerg
OK guys!  I have not fired up my Moka Pot in months, I am going to do an evening brew of PNG Kimmel.
 
Les
Edward Spiegel  wrote:
At 6:12 PM -0500 9/18/04, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote:
<Snip>
Moka Pot coffee prepared correctly can be awesome. It isn't really like espresso except that it is very rich -- some people are disappointed because in the U.S. Moka Pots are sold as stovetop espresso makers.
To my palate, it is something like a VERY rich filter coffee. The secret is to heat the water slowly so that the water temp is below boiling point when it goes from bottom to top. I used to use it and not like it and discovered that I was heating the water too quickly and so was getting something like what you get out of a steam-based espresso machine. But if you heat the water gently the coffee is very flavorful (a bit too intense for some people).
--Edward

9) From: Jared Andersson
My wife Susan and I have been using one of the Erika pots sweetmarias sells for about a year and love it.  I think of it as coffee between french press and espresso.  It has all the yummy oils of french press plus some of the intensity of espresso.  Even with my new fancy Tea espresso machine coming I predict I will always use the Moka pot for a great cup of strong coffee.  Americanos have always seemed to thin for me as if I taste the water and the coffee separately.  Any one else get this sensation with Amerincanos? 
Maryann & Dave Schellenberg  wrote: Every once-in-a-while, when I walk through a kitchen store, I look at 
the Moka Pots and I wonder. They're so simple, and not very expensive.
I have yet to read on this list anyone saying, "I'm just sipping this 
out-of-this-world moka coffee, and wondering if life can get any better".
So if you wouldn't mind, could you characterise the taste for me?
Is it like French Press, with something added, or like espresso, but 
missing a certain something?
Sweet Maria's page says it's between espresso and Turkish, but I've 
never had a Turkish so can't imagine it.
Those of you who make it, is it only a substitute when you can't get to 
an espresso, or do you, on occasion, prefer it.
My context is, that I occasionally drink espresso at a coffee bar, but 
don't crave it, so will never spend the money to make my own.
I"m very happy with vac pot, French Press, and single-cup gold filter, 
as long as its made with my fresh-roasted coffee.
Dave S.---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!

10) From: Angelo
I've found every size of Moka pot in thrift shops for under $5. They're 
almost always there...I would suggest that you keep your eyes open for one 
and try it. If you don't like it, re-donate it or make it into a vase....:-)
Most of the people around the world who like rich, strong coffee prefer the 
Moka...It makes very nice cappas and lattes, but you do have to put it on a 
low flame and take it off as soon as the last drips are coming over the 
top. As a matter of fact, if you turn  off the heat towards the end of the 
eruption and let the residual heat get the rest over, you will have a 
perfect cup...
Ciao,
Angelo
<Snip>

11) From: Ralph Rosen
I was going to write something about Moka pots that echoes *exactly* 
Edward's note, so he's saved me the work! But this is just to say 
also that once you get the technique down (which is no great secret, 
just the right grind--not too fine--and very gentle warm-up) it can 
make a superb cup; I use it with espresso blends as well as any 
coffee I've roasted for brewing, and use it a few times a week as a 
pleasant alternative to the usual vac-pot or espresso's. I 
conceptualize the Moka pot coffee as a very strong brewed coffee, 
rather than as a diluted espresso; though I'm sure others do the 
opposite. I'm not sure what difference this makes, but I suppose 
there's some sort of psychological/perceptual component to the 
pleasure we take in coffee! :-)
Ralph
<Snip>
--

12) From: AlChemist John
 From tasting coffee from a moka pot and a Moka  Brew, where moka is half 
way between FP and espresso, I found the Moka brew half way between a moka 
and a FP.  Basically, a little richer than drip, but not quite moka level.
Sometime around 05:50 PM 9/18/2004, Peter Schmidt typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

13) From: Jean
I especially like the moka pot for iced coffee.
Jean  :~)

14) From: Wandering John
Hmmm..  I've never tried it as iced coffee but that makes sense. 
Guess I'll go give that a try right now.  Its only going to make it to
91F today, but that's warm enough to give iced coffee a try.  Hmm.. 
DG169 ready - now what bean?
John - LOVING life in the slow lane
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:27:12 -0700, Jean  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: bemason
Dave S. mentioned:
<Snip>
OK, here goes... I have several coffee makers... I love my Cory Vacuum
brewer, love my french press, put up with my Cuisinart Grindnbrew, but my
afternoon delight is my Moka pot.  I grind very coars with my Zassenhaus
499, then make a perfect rich afternoon cup...
Too fine a grind and its bitter - coarse and it is incredible!
Regards,
Brett Mason

16) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Okay, MokaDudes (and Dudettes) how coarse is coarse?  And what can we use 
for a comparison?  If we all had the same grinder - OR - if grinders all had 
to sort-of adhere to some sort of measurement standard, it would be easier.
Can we compare it to canned coffee intended for drip, for example?  (that's 
just what occurred to me, please jump in with something better if you can 
think of it!)
I'm ready to pull out the old Moka pot and try to make better coffee in it. 
I think I understand all the other parameters, but would like some sort of 
ballpark notion on the grind.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

17) From: Wandering John
Gene,
I use the same grind as I would for drip.  Commercial Drip or/and
maybe a bit larger but not much larger.
I just finished my Moka iced coffee - and it WAS good!  Being cold
seems to really pull the sweetness up a notch while not disturbing the
flavor.  Its something I'll do more often.
John - Living Large in the slow lane
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:27:25 -0500, Gene Smith  wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Borgie
I'm sitting here laughing because I recently picked up a Moka pot and
have been doing EVERYTHING wrong!  I've been grinding super-fine and
preheating the water before pouring it in the pot.  How'd I come up
with THAT?!  No wonder I was disappointed...
-Steve
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:32:07 -0500, Wandering John
 wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Lesley Albjerg
Steve,
I really like the Wussy Centrals in a Moka Pot!  It really brings the flavor out without the overpowering high notes that espresso extraction pull out of them.  Nice medium grind over medium heat!
 
Les
Borgie  wrote:
I'm sitting here laughing because I recently picked up a Moka pot and
have been doing EVERYTHING wrong! I've been grinding super-fine and
preheating the water before pouring it in the pot. How'd I come up
with THAT?! No wonder I was disappointed...
-Steve
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:32:07 -0500, Wandering John
wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
What is your process for making iced coffee?
Just brew the coffee normally, and then chill it in the fridge?
Dave S.
Jean wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: Jean
From: "Wandering John" 
<Snip>
Glad you enjoyed it.  Me too!
Jean  :~)

22) From: Wandering John
I brewed and then poured over ice.  I now have a jar of moka brew in
the refrigerator chilling.  I would imagine the chilled it going to be
better because the hot coffee melts the ice and therefore waters down
the coffee.
John - watching my windows move from the thunder.  Life in the slow
lane is noisy
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:07:59 -0500, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
 wrote:
<Snip>

23) From: Dennis Parham
NNNNOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!   Iced coffee is exactly OPPOSITE!!  so many 
people brew it first!!! NOOOO!!    grind to about French Press 
grind.... leave in cool place sealed on counter or frig overnight... 
then strain it through a nylon or gold filter!!  it is SOOO DELICIOUS 
!!   throw some ice cubes, little half and half, and natural cain sugar 
and your ready to go!! or maybe some real vanilla!
or just strait with ICE!!
they make a device to do this with if you do not want to makeshift 
something... but for summer it is WONDERFUL!  ice over brewed coffee to 
me it terrible!! and not "TRUE ICE COFFEE" it is iceD Coffee....lol
Dennis Parham
On Sep 19, 2004, at 4:07 PM, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote:
<Snip>

24) From: Wandering John
I love Centrals because you have to really work at messing them up. 
I've had cold coffee that just went cold in the cup and knew it was
sweeter, but this is the first fresh cold coffee I've had in a long
time and it was sweet enough that it could have had sweetener added
when I wasn't looking :O)   I made mine from the Guatemalan Coban -
really good steaming hot, hot, cool and cold!
John - Loving life in the slow lane - even with all the thunder and rain

25) From: Dennis Parham
OOPS!  I forgot to mention...this makes a CONCENTRATE!  SO...2oz per 
cup makes it perfect to me...but adjust to taste!!
YOU WILL LOVE IT!!
Dennis Parham
On Sep 19, 2004, at 4:45 PM, Dennis Parham wrote:
<Snip>

26) From: Wandering John
Dennis Lad,   Read the subject line - we are talking about Moka brewed
coffee that has been iced.   A lot of us have cold brewing kits and
when there's room in the refrigerator we use them :O)
John - Living Large from Lane to Lane
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:45:53 -0500, Dennis Parham  wrote:
<Snip>

27) From: Dennis Parham
sheesh..another mistake in my frenzy....  after you grind...add your 
filtered water about 2 times as much as grounds as you use for drip I 
think.... I think I use about 3/4 cup grounds to a drip coffee pot 
volume...
Dennis Parham
On Sep 19, 2004, at 4:45 PM, Dennis Parham wrote:
<Snip>

28) From: Dennis Parham
hehehe....(blushing)  I have been hammered so many times by cafe's who 
dont know what real Ice coffee is and I jumped in like a moron!! heheh  
My Apologies!!  hehehe
Dennis Parham
On Sep 19, 2004, at 4:49 PM, Wandering John wrote:
<Snip>

29) From: Edward Spiegel
At 4:39 PM -0500 9/19/04, Wandering John wrote:
<Snip>
I've done it both ways and find fresh hot coffee (brewed strong) poured over ice to taste much better than coffee that has been brewed and chilled in the fridge. The flavor of coffee changes pretty dramatically as it sits and to my taste buds the fresher the better. The moka pot is perfect for this because it brews a very strong cup. So moka pot coffee poured over ice results in an 'americano-like' ice coffee.
I suppose everyone has different prefs. But that is my take,
E

30) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I've had one since I bought it in Rome in the early '70s and have managed to 
do everything wrong that is possible to do wrong - including leaving it dry 
on the fire long enough to melt the rubber gasket to the pot (boy was *that* 
fun to clean off!).
I associated it with espresso in my mind, and ground the coffee as fine as I 
could, and also, of course, tamped it in good and tight.  Neither did it 
ever occur to me to brew it any slower than 'as fast as possible.'
So, armed with information from this most excellent list (again!) I'm going 
to try and find out what moka pot coffee really tastes like.
Mind you, at its worst it was still better than what I was getting from any 
commercial source at the time.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

31) From: Jean
Brew it in the moka pot, pour it ice.  Add 1/2 and 1/2 or drink it =
black, depending on mood/what I'm drinking.
 
Jean  :~)

32) From: Edward Spiegel
At 5:01 PM -0500 9/19/04, Gene Smith wrote:
<Snip>
I was in the same boat until I noticed a comment someone made in passing about moka pots and realized that I, too, had been doing everything wrong (espresso grind, full heat). Boy am I glad I joined this list and discovered the right way to brew.
Also, don't tamp. Loosely fill the basket (some people fill it in a pyramid shape). I use the same grind that I use when making drip coffee -- coarser than espresso but not as coarse as for FP.
There might be a tips sheet on the SM site.
Since I redisovered moka pot coffee (discovered is more accurate because when I first used my pot I was clueless and made the bitterest coffee imaginable -- yet fooled myself into liking -- granted I was in high school and hadn't had any well-brewed coffee) I have bought a couple of pots of different sizes at thrift shops for a couple of bucks a piece.
Let us know how it works out.
--Edward

33) From: micah milano
Most Mokas are made from Aluminum, which has been linked to
Alzheimer's Disease and neurotoxicity. Although some scientists
disagree about this, I dont want to risk it. We absorb a lot of
aluminum from the environment (in fact, here in the USA the FDA
recently warned that pregnant women should not eat fish more than
twice a week due to the high levels of aluminum contained therein).
The internals of the Moka, specifically the water chamber, is in
direct contact with the heat source and it does NOT have a polished
finish. Some may have noticed that the water left in the chamber after
brewing actually has a metallic smell.
I hear there is a stainless steel version, slightly more expensive,
but maybe better?
If you would like to read up some more on Alzheimer's and aluminum,
check out these links:http://www.mercola.com/1998/archive/aluminum_and_alzheimer_prevention.htmhttp://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/16/aluminum_water_alzheimers.htm
Bialetti Class and Bialetti Kona are completely stainless steel inside
and out. All of them work on the same principles as the Moka Express,
has anyone tried any of these?
Micah
On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:12:17 -0500, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
 wrote:
<Snip>

34) From: Wandering John
Well Micah - if you're going to listen to that nut - you need to
really listen to him:
Coffee: How Bad is it Really? 12/10/03
Coffee: How Bad is it Really? By Dr. Joseph Mercola with Rachael Droege Although
coffee is one of the most heavily researched commodities ...
www.mercola.com/2003/dec/10/coffee.htm - 28k - Cached - Similar pages
Coffee Increases Estrogen in Women
... Women who consumed at least 500 milligrams of caffeine daily, the
equivalent of
four or five cups of coffee, had nearly 70% more estrogen during the early ...
www.mercola.com/2001/dec/8/coffee_estrogen.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages
Decaf Coffee Increases Rheumatoid Arthritis Risk
... Women drinking four or more cups a day of decaffeinated coffee were at more
than twice the risk of developing rheumatoid arthritis. ...
www.mercola.com/2001/dec/1/decaf_coffee.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
Coffee Can Raise Cholesterol 2/28/01
There may indeed be a causal relationship between drinking unfiltered coffee
and high cholesterol levels. ... Coffee Can Raise Cholesterol. ...
www.mercola.com/2001/feb/28/coffee_cholesterol.htm - 22k - Cached -
Similar pages
www.mercola.com/2001/sep/1/coffee.htm
Similar pages
Coffee, Tea, or Stress-Free? 8/17/02
Coffee, Tea, or Stress-Free? ... Coffee is one of the most heavily
sprayed crops,
with plenty of toxic pesticide residue present on the beans. ...
www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/coffee_tea_stress.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages
Coffee Impairs Short-Term Memory 8/4/04
Coffee Impairs Short-Term Memory. A ... remember. Study on Coffee and Short-Term
Memory. 32 college students were placed into two groups. ...
www.mercola.com/2004/aug/4/coffee_memory.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages
Heavy Coffee Drinking May Raise Rheumatoid Arthritis Risk 8/6/00
Heavy Coffee Drinking May Raise Rheumatoid Arthritis Risk. People who drink
many cups of coffee every day appear to be at a higher ...
www.mercola.com/2000/aug/6/coffee_arthritis.htm - 20k - Cached - Similar pages
Coffee May Lower Diabetes Risk? 1/28/04
Coffee May Lower Diabetes Risk? Researchers ... drinkers. Further,
women who drank coffee
reduced their risk of type 2 diabetes by nearly 30 percent. ...
www.mercola.com/2004/jan/28/coffee_diabetes.htm - 21k - Cached - Similar pages
Advanced Plan: Beverages
... Lesson 1: Eliminate coffee. You may know intuitively that coffee is not
the best fluid to drink but not really understand why. Here ...
www.mercola.com/nutritionplan/advanced_beverages.htm - 25k - Cached -
Similar pages
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:40:39 -0500, micah milano  wrote:
<Snip>

35) From: Barbara Greenspon
And all the reputable Altzheimer's researchers have researched and  
abandoned the theory about aluminum.  It was certainly a worry for a  
time, until the data came out.
But the stainless steel moka pots are terrific and not terribly  
expensive.  I have two of them, in different sizes.
Barbara
On Sep 19, 2004, at 5:45 PM, Wandering John wrote:
<Snip>

36) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Claus_Th=F8gersen?=
Hi,
This guy is fantastic in his way of performing research or in the way he is
presenting it.
This link:
Coffee, Tea, or Stress-Free? 8/17/02
Coffee, Tea, or Stress-Free? ... Coffee is one of the most heavily
sprayed crops,
with plenty of toxic pesticide residue present on the beans. ...
www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/coffee_tea_stress.htm -
24k - Cached - Similar pages
But what did they actualy test, 2 groups of people were tested one group
were given pills containing coffein the others did not get such a pill. Nice
research design, but coffee is not clean coffeine, I wonder why  they did
not use coffee or coke for the experiment.
Claus Thψgersen

37) From: Wandering John
I'm waiting to read an article on Mercola that says "Reading Mercola
leads to stress and disease and may be responsible for death!"    If
you search Mercola on any subject you will find he has a negative
opinion.
I have one of each material (aluminum and SS) and can't taste any difference.
John - Agreeing with  Mercola  - we're all dying all the time.
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:00:50 -0500, Barbara Greenspon  wrote:
<Snip>

38) From: micah milano
Perhaps I should use a language that people here understand, paper
filters remove oils from coffee and leave a paper taste, aluminum moka
pots add aluminim and leave a metalic taste.
However, with the recent popularity of mecury problems, the FDA making
warnings, I don't use taste as my only concern. I don't want to ingest
metals in my coffee. You may have no problems with your liver and your
kidneys, but they have to work double time to remove metal toxicity
from your body. For a normal healthy person, this isn't so much of a
problem, although many people don't have any problems until there has
been too much exposure. Genetically, some people cannot dispose of
metals properly, and those with a chronic disease have difficulties
dealing with metal toxicity.
Not all researchers have abandoned the theory about aluminum. It was
only recently that they discovered that patients with Alzheimer's had
aluminum deposits in the brain. The director of medical and scientific
affairs at the Alzheimer's Association points to the recent data that
supports the theory that brains already damaged by Alzheimer's may
allow abnormally high levels of aluminum to enter the brain, ie. that
the metal doesn't necessarily cause it, but people with such illnesses
are able to concentrate and store aluminum that they ingest or
otherwise receive through the environment.
A normal person can process a lot of aluminum from their body, most
people consume about 10mg of the stuff a day, but if something breaks
down in your system, then you have a problem.
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:00:50 -0500, Barbara Greenspon  wrote:
<Snip>

39) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Oh Claus, you know why...because the experiment was 'designed' to confirm 
what they already knew to be correct.
Gene Smith
trying to design an experiment that proves he's rich (preferably to the 
bank), in Houston

40) From: micah milano
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:45:41 -0500, Wandering John
 wrote:
<Snip>
That makes no sense. You think binary agreement without rational
thought is sane? I hardly think that anyone should be expected to
listen and agree with someone 100% or not at all. As a thinking
person, I like to think that evaluating things that people say doesn't
necessitate me blindly agreeing with everything that they say because
I might find one thing that they say compelling.
Is the converse also true? If I disagree with someone, should I
disagree with everything they say 100% no matter what they say, even
if I don't hear it?
<Snip>
You can't be so pollyanish to think that coffee is a wonder drug with
no potential problems for some people. This article, if you read it
instead of simply copying its title and assuming it is crap, isn't
that bad, and for people with debilitating chronic illnesses, this
isn't that far off.
Do you think that there is no issue with coffee and pesticides? The
sweetmarias site seems to think that chemical pesticide use with
coffees is problematic. I know a lot of doctors who would say what
Mercola says when he says "Avoid Coffee if You Have High Blood
Pressure, Insomnia or Anxiety"... I haven't done a lot of research
into the other affects of coffee, and he may be wrong about the other
issues with coffee he sites, I dont know, and I am not interested in
debating it.
However, I do think it is sort of silly to say he is a nut and then
copy and paste a few articles without any reason, logic or anything
but a knee-jerk reaction to anyone saying anything even remotely
negative about the effects of coffee. I'm not going to put blinders on
and say coffee doesn't have problems, I've weighed the problems and
risks and my own health and feel comfortable drinking it, but I am not
going to drink it from a aluminum moka.
<Snip>

41) From: Barbara Greenspon
--Apple-Mail-13--775033835
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
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There is a well respected site called Quackwatch.org.  Searching for  
Mercola led to several links. It is very sad that well meaning people  =
can be misled so easily and many times lose out in some way.   From =
the  
webpagehttp://www.quackwatch.org/12Web/webindex.html,I copy the  
following:
Nonrecommended Major  Sites
  Each of these sites provides a huge amount of information, most  or  =
all of which promotes unsubstntiated theories and/or methods.  They may  =
be useful to researchers seeking descriptions of these  theories and  
methods from their proponents. However, they should  be avoided by  
persons seeking high-quality information on which  to base a  
health-related decision.
	• 	 Alternative Medicine Digest
	• 	 Ask Dr. Weil
	• 	 Blended Medicine
	• 	 Doctors Medical Library
	• 	 HealingPeople.com
	• 	 Healthmap.com
	• 	 Health World
	• 	 Healthshop.com
	• 	 Healthwell.com
	• 	 Leading Edge International Research Group
	• 	 Mercola.com
	• 	 MotherNature.com
	• 	OneBody.com
	• 	 PlanetRx
	• 	 Prevention Magazine
	• 	 SelfCare
	• 	 SupplementWatch
	• 	 VitalCast.com
	• 	 vitaminbuzz
	• 	 WholeHealthMD
On Sep 19, 2004, at 6:55 PM, micah milano wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
Express,
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
but
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-13--775033835
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/enriched;
	charsetNDOWS-1252
There is a well respected site called Quackwatch.org.  Searching for
Mercola led to several links. It is very sad that well meaning people
can be misled so easily and many times lose out in some way.   From
the webpagehttp://www.quackwatch.org/12Web/webindex.html,I copy the
following:
TimesNonrecommended
Major  Sites
=
Times
Each of these sites provides a huge amount of information, most  or
all of which promotes unsubstntiated theories and/or methods.  They
may be useful to researchers seeking descriptions of these  theories
and methods from their proponents. However, they should  be avoided by
persons seeking high-quality information on which  to base a
health-related decision.
	• 	 Alternative Medicine Digest
	• 	 Ask Dr. Weil
	• 	 Blended Medicine
	• 	 Doctors Medical Library
	• 	 HealingPeople.com
	• 	 Healthmap.com
	• 	 Health World
	• 	 Healthshop.com
	• 	 Healthwell.com
	• 	 Leading Edge International Research Group
	• 	 Mercola.com
	• 	 =
0000,0000,EEEEMotherNature.com 
	• 	OneBody.com
	• 	 PlanetRx
	• 	 Prevention Magazine
	• 	 SelfCare
	• 	 SupplementWatch
	• 	 VitalCast.com
	• 	 vitaminbuzz
	• 	 =
0000,0000,EEEEWholeHealthMD 
On Sep 19, 2004, at 6:55 PM, micah milano wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:45:41 -0500, Wandering John
< wrote:
Well Micah - if you're going to listen to that nut - you need
to
really listen to him:
That makes no sense. You think binary agreement without rational
thought is sane? I hardly think that anyone should be expected to
listen and agree with someone 100% or not at all. As a thinking
person, I like to think that evaluating things that people say doesn't
necessitate me blindly agreeing with everything that they say because
I might find one thing that they say compelling.
Is the converse also true? If I disagree with someone, should I
disagree with everything they say 100% no matter what they say, even
if I don't hear it?
Coffee: How Bad is it Really? 12/10/03
Coffee: How Bad is it Really? By Dr. Joseph Mercola with Rachael
Droege Although
coffee is one of the most heavily researched commodities ...
www.mercola.com/2003/dec/10/coffee.htm - 28k - Cached - Similar pages
You can't be so pollyanish to think that coffee is a wonder drug with
no potential problems for some people. This article, if you read it
instead of simply copying its title and assuming it is crap, isn't
that bad, and for people with debilitating chronic illnesses, this
isn't that far off.
Do you think that there is no issue with coffee and pesticides? The
sweetmarias site seems to think that chemical pesticide use with
coffees is problematic. I know a lot of doctors who would say what
Mercola says when he says "Avoid Coffee if You Have High Blood
Pressure, Insomnia or Anxiety"... I haven't done a lot of research
into the other affects of coffee, and he may be wrong about the other
issues with coffee he sites, I dont know, and I am not interested in
debating it.
However, I do think it is sort of silly to say he is a nut and then
copy and paste a few articles without any reason, logic or anything
but a knee-jerk reaction to anyone saying anything even remotely
negative about the effects of coffee. I'm not going to put blinders on
and say coffee doesn't have problems, I've weighed the problems and
risks and my own health and feel comfortable drinking it, but I am not
going to drink it from a aluminum moka.
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:40:39 -0500, micah milano
< wrote:
Most Mokas are made from Aluminum, which has been linked to
Alzheimer's Disease and neurotoxicity. Although some scientists
disagree about this, I dont want to risk it. We absorb a lot of
aluminum from the environment (in fact, here in the USA the FDA
recently warned that pregnant women should not eat fish more than
twice a week due to the high levels of aluminum contained therein).
The internals of the Moka, specifically the water chamber, is in
direct contact with the heat source and it does NOT have a polished
finish. Some may have noticed that the water left in the chamber after
brewing actually has a metallic smell.
I hear there is a stainless steel version, slightly more expensive,
but maybe better?
If you would like to read up some more on Alzheimer's and aluminum,
check out these links:
=http://www.mercola.com/1998/archive/aluminum_and_alzheimer_prevention.htmhttp://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/16/aluminum_water_alzheimers.htm
Bialetti Class and Bialetti Kona are completely stainless steel inside
and out. All of them work on the same principles as the Moka Express,
has anyone tried any of these?
Micah
On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:12:17 -0500, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
< wrote:
Every once-in-a-while, when I walk through a kitchen store, I
look at
the Moka Pots and I wonder. They're so simple, and not very expensive.
I have yet to read on this list anyone saying, "I'm just sipping this
out-of-this-world moka coffee, and wondering if life can get any
better".
So if you wouldn't mind, could you characterise the taste for me?
Is it like French Press, with something added, or like espresso, but
missing a certain something?
Sweet Maria's page says it's between espresso and Turkish, but I've
never had a Turkish so can't imagine it.
Those of you who make it, is it only a substitute when you can't get to
an espresso, or do you, on occasion, prefer it.
My context is, that I occasionally drink espresso at a coffee bar, but
don't crave it, so will never spend the money to make my own.
I"m very happy with vac pot, French Press, and single-cup gold filter,
as long as its made with my fresh-roasted coffee.
Dave S.

42) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
Thank-you, everyone for educating me about Moka pots, and iced coffee.
The post office left a notice that I think means my new grinder has 
arrived - will find out tomorrow.
I sure hope that's it, because my French Press coffee has been badly 
polluted with silt the last couple of days.
And that's after adding the nylon filter from Sweet Maria's.
Then I'll check out Moka pots.
Dave S.

43) From: Angelo
<Snip>
This might sound like heresy in this group, but you might want to start out 
with one of the canned coffees from Italy, or at least those that are 
marketed to Italians in this country. They are pretty much ground for La 
Machinetta - which is what they call the Moka pot...
Using these you can get a feel for the coarseness of the grind and also 
what it is that these people see in that pot.
When I was a kid, the family swore by Medaglia D' Oro (Gold Medal), but I 
think this is made by one of the American companies..
Some Italian brands are Lavazza, Kimbo, Tasse de oro..Any Italian grocery 
will have a few of them...
Also, some of the stores in the Spanish neighborhoods have coffee for those 
pots...Pico  is one, Bustelo, Goya, etc...
Ciao,
Angelo
<Snip>

44) From: Felix Dial

45) From: Larry Palletti

46) From: Joseph A. Feliciani
Hi Larry,
Your mentioning of "black coffee" brings back memories.
My grandmother, on my dad's side, who lived in NY, used to send us "care 
packages." (Just thinking about those packages, immediately brings two 
things to mind; one - the smell of "moth balls". She used to cover 
everything in the package with dish towels which must have been stored in a 
closet filled with moth balls! And two - my dad reading my grandmother's 
letter in Italian and then translating it for us.).
There were always one or two cans of Medaglia d'Oro in the care package. My 
dad and mom would smile and I knew it was time to take out their old moka 
pot and make them "black coffee", with a little anisette in it. Every night, 
right after dinner, until they ran out of Medaglia d'Oro. Then they would 
wait for the next care package.
Joe
RK Drum #9,RK Gear Motor #?,Solis Maestro +,*$ Proteo Barista,Spidem Trevi 
Digital +

47) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<Snip>
I am with you - I don't like anything that sits in the fridge, coffee 
wise. I would much rather make a strong French Press of good coffee, 
decant it after 4 minutes, and let it cool to room temp. somewhat to 
then ice it. Impractical, but a better cup I think. I like the really 
bright Kenyas as iced coffee best.
Tom
-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george

48) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Perhaps, Micah, if you are really interested in making your point, and not 
merely demonstrating pique, you might consider using language that people 
here won't find offensive.  I rather agree with your statement but don't 
care much for your tone.  Unless you're going to really tire us with either 
claims of exemptiom from conventions of polite conversation as a servant of 
TRUTH, or that "He started it first!" I'm afraid you're going to have to 
manage to remain pleasant so as not alienate those of us likely to agree 
with you along with those who don't.
I'm sorry if some responses ruffled your feathers.  This is a bit of a 
feather-ruffling list.  I learned early on here not to turn away in a huff - 
unless I wanted to end up looking like a particularly ratty peacock when I 
turned back around.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

49) From: Edward Spiegel
At 6:34 PM -0500 9/19/04, micah milano wrote:
<Snip>
Hi Micah,
I'd like to suggest a perspective on these issues. I agree that toxic metals=
 in our food is something that we should be concerned with. The point that I=
 tried to make earlier -- perhaps not clearly enough -- is that the amount=
 of aluminum that would enter your diet as the result of a cup or two of=
 moka pot brewed coffee would be dwarfed by the aluminum that you ingest=
 from other sources. The additional amount added from the coffee would be=
 infinitesimal. Burning a candle creates air pollution, but the amount that=
 the candle burning at a restaurant table emits is so small that you are not=
 putting yourself at additional health risk by sitting at a table that has a=
 candle burning. When discussing the health risks of ingesting anything, you=
 need to consider the amount. The trace amounts that might be in moka pot=
 coffee (keep in mind that the only time when any aluminum would leach into=
 the pot is after the coffee has been extracted -- aluminum is barely=
 soluble in ph-neutral water -- and the coffee is only going to be in=
 contact with the aluminum for a brief period -- you have to boil tomato=
 sauce for quite a while in unlined aluminum for any to leach out).
Where aftertaste, if one has cleaned and broken in an aluminum moka pot,=
 there won't be an aftertaste. I am pretty sensitive to such tastes and have=
 aluminum and stainless steel moka pots. Neither contributes any after taste=
 at all. (I suppose it might if one let the coffee simmer for a significant=
 amount of time but I don't think anyone would do that). Both pots did have=
 an aftertaste at the very beginning which probably was related less to the=
 metal in the pots than residues of chemicals used in the manufacture proces=
s.
I think that it is good to share concerns, and I also believe that such=
 concerns should be kept in perspective.
Best,
Edward

50) From: Angelo
It's kind of sad about this, but then it's to be expected as we assimilate=
 
into the dominant culture. My relatives don't know a good cup of coffee 
anymore. They buy whatever's on sale at Costco. The moka pots are gone, 
replaced by Mr. Coffee machines..and , of course, they think I'm nuts 
caring this much about coffee..:-)
Ciao,
Angelo
<Snip>
 to
<Snip>
 The
<Snip>
http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

51) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I agree it's sad...but maybe for different reasons.  I think that a lot of 
the stuff we fondly remember was done more because "that was the way it was 
done" than through any necessarily great appreciation.
Half-Italian myself (obviously not the Smith half), I've seen a lot of the 
same in my family. But with the 'tradition' went a lot of pig headedness. 
My Grandma Mary was an excellent cook and could knock out a hell of a meal. 
But it had more to do with her sense of identity than any deep appreciation 
of cooking.  I say that because, although she cooked very well, she only 
recognized one way of doing things...hers.
She learned the 'right' way from her mother and I'm sure the thought never 
entered her head that anything she did might be improved upon.  There was 
just the 'right' way to cook...and the way all the other slovenly, useless 
women did it.  I can certainly assure you that it would have been more than 
your life was worth to make any helpful suggestions!
So, while I mourn the loss of some traditions, I trust the sort of deep 
appreciation gained through open-mindedness and experimentation - as 
exemplified by this list - even more.
Anyway, maybe we're helping (at least a little bit) to bring the pleasures 
of things well done back into household life in a country that has abdicated 
that sort of thing to industrial food for the better part of a century.  I 
think that might be the best way to honor ancestors who didn't think a 
decent meal - or cup of coffee - was a trivial thing.
Gene Smith
who preserves some of the family recipes, in Houston

52) From: Jim Garlits

53) From: Angelo
I'm happy to report that at least my son appreciates a good cup of coffee 
and has been roasting with a popper and a Gourmet for a couple of years. I 
bought him a Rocky and gave him my old $B Barista, so he's all set.,,,,
Sometimes, though, I think he just does it to impress the young ladies with 
his cappa-making skills, :-)
Ciao,
Angelo
<Snip>

54) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
Nothing wrong with that, Angelo.  I made many a pleasant connection in 
bachelor days by offering to make young ladies dinner, both astonishing and 
intriguing them.  Good coffee provides the added advantage that, unlike, 
say, Madeira and etchings viewing, you gain the added pleasure of being able 
to remember the details of the evening.
Gene Smith
remembering, in Houston


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