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Topic: Panama Carmen 7 Dias de la Bellota Help! (13 msgs / 390 lines)
1) From: sci
Well, it happens every now and then. I got a bean  that I can't make taste
good. I've tried roasting this bean in the Behmor to C+ and FC, but neither
batch tastes good. I rested the beans appropriately, but still oddly "off"
in flavor. I used P2 profile each time. I love DP coffees and have found
central DPs to be real winners, but I must be doing something wrong here.
Has anybody tried this bean and got good results? If so, what are you doing?
I have a IR2 also, and I will try a batch there. Maybe that method will
help.
Thanks
Ivan
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2) From: Bryan Wray
"Off" is awfully vague.  What are you experiencing flavor-wise?
-bry
Bryan Wray
Compass Coffee
360.831.1480
Bryan
It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine =
delivery service, it can be a culinary art- Chris Owens
--- On Tue, 9/14/10, sci  wrote:
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3) From: gtsteig
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4) From: raymanowen
If I'm going to NYC (C+, FC) what difference would it make if I traveled by
Car, bus, plane, train, elevator or roller skates? (Behmor, iR2)
C+ is C+ no matter how you get there. Just don't get off at Poughkeepsie.
-ro
-- 
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5) From: Allon Stern
On Sep 15, 2010, at 8:01 AM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
I respectfully disagree.
If you traveled there by cannon, you might still end up there, but the takeoff would be a little stressful, not to mention the landing.
Roasting isn't only about where you end up; it's very much how you get there.
Drum roasters get there differently from hot air roasters. Some folks prefer a drum profile, some a hot air style; I believe it has as much to do with the batch size as it does the method, though that may be due partially to roasters limited to a small batch size because of their limited headroom the heater (headroom in the dB over nominal capacity sense, not physical space -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headroom_(audio_signal_processing))
-
allon
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6) From: Rich
It has to do with the dT/dt across the individual bean  and the peak 
temperature of the outer and centerline of the bean.
Allon Stern wrote:
<Snip>
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7) From: Allon Stern
On Sep 15, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Rich wrote:
<Snip>
Exactly. And different roasters have different characteristics. It's perfectly valid to expect a roast to the same level from a Behmor and an iRoast to differ in some qualities.
-
allon
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8) From: sci
The beans lack flavor and are flat in depth. The flavor that does come
through is not rich or sweet, but a little harsh. The described flavor
doesn't come through. At the bottom end of the cup, just when the coffee is
about to be too cool to enjoy, a little of the fruited flavors emerge. I
have roasted many DPs and I know thaty don't have a clean cup profile and
are rustic, but the rusticity in this batch seems too powerful. I rarely
finish the cup. But I still make one each day to see if it hits a sweet spot
in the resting routine.
This is what I wonder: is it possible that shipping beans from CA to NC via
UPS ground in the summer has a negative effect on the quality of some beans.
They are in transit for 7 days across some pretty hot terrain in a semi that
isn't climate conditioned.
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:33:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bryan Wray 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Panama Carmen 7 Dias de la Bellota Help!
Message-ID: <711157.42217.qm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
"Off" is awfully vague.  What are you experiencing flavor-wise?
-bry
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9) From: sci
I have to agree with Allon on this RayO. I use several roasting methods and
they do yield a different kind of C+ or FC. What if I roasted a bean to C+
in 2 minutes and compared that to the same bean at C+ in a drum roaster at
18 min. Big difference. Many foods need slow cooking. What about a steak or
a roast fully cooked in 5 minutes, versus a slow cook? Again, big
difference. I haven't tried the 7 Dias in the IR2 yet, but will this
weekend.
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: raymanowen
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
       list,   available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"       
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Panama Carmen 7 Dias de la Bellota Help!
Message-ID:
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charsetO-8859-1
If I'm going to NYC (C+, FC) what difference would it make if I traveled by
Car, bus, plane, train, elevator or roller skates? (Behmor, iR2)
C+ is C+ no matter how you get there. Just don't get off at Poughkeepsie.
-ro
--
Persist in old ways; expect something new - suborn Insanity...
Homeroast mailing list
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10) From: Bryan Wray
Do you have more parameters on the roast?
What time are you hitting first and what time are you stopping the roast?
-bry
Bryan Wray
Compass Coffee
360.831.1480
Bryan
It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine =
delivery service, it can be a culinary art- Chris Owens
--- On Wed, 9/15/10, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
fo.html"
<Snip>
l.com>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
      =
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11) From: Edward Bourgeois
I had quite of bit of last years and still have a few lbs stashed. As
I remember they are a decent sized very hard bean. One of those beans
that the outside can get ahead of the inside as it requires great heat
transfer without going to high in ET temp, A rushed light roast can be
nasty. Then again if you go too slow you lose the light roast
qualities and flatten the fc.fc+ roast.I'll use a little lower drop
temp and warm a bit longer to 200f BT then get them going. Ramp fairly
quickly but this is where the centers can lag. Slowish steady first
crack maintaining that rate for lighter and a little faster coming out
of first for fc, fc+
I liked Shots and Capps  with this. Nice fall cup of coffee. I haven't
ordered any of this years lot yet. Fig Newtony.
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Bryan Wray
 wrote:
<Snip>
e delivery service, it can be a culinary art- Chris Owens
<Snip>
nfo.html"
<Snip>
il.com>
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
-- =
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
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12) From: raymanowen
"the dT/dt across the individual bean  and the peak temperature of the outer
and centerline of the bean." This will not be the same for every bean in a
roast, and I don't fancy it is for beans in my roast either. I do harbor the
sneaking suspicion that beans gain thermal energy through conduction,
convection and radiation.
The roasting drum is an outstanding example of beans' gaining heat via all
three modes. Due to the ultra short electromagnetic wavelength of Infra Red
radiation, it cannot penetrate the surface of the bean and depends on
thermal conductivity and cascading radiation to thoroughly heat the
succeeding layers of the bean after the first surfaces.
The first surfaces gain heat, by whatever method, es macht nichts how.
Afterward, all succeeding heat transfer to the cascading interior "surfaces"
after the first is the same. Microwaves are able to bake [ruin] and cook
[ruin] cakes and steaks from within because of the wavelengths of a few
inches generated by the cavity magnetron tubes.
Thermal Infra Red radiation is a longer wavelength, longer than visible
light. Around 0.1mm. Microwaves are about 100X the wavelength, so penetrate
and generate heat deeper.
Of course, the ways and means of accomplishing an apparent thermal profile
are different, and it is an inference that the observations represent the
actual internal temperature of the beans.
Post Hoc, ergo Propter Hoc- if you get the desired flavor from your machines
and methods, don't change a thing. Leave it to others to discuss the fact
that temperature measuring apparatus tells you its temperature. It's a leap
of faith to deduce that what you see is the bean temperature. It's not a
direct function.
I-R devices are good, in that they read the radiation at the bean surface.
Beans are insulators, so the core could be lagging or leading the changing
surface temperature. You hold it steady? So do I- until I get to the last
step in roasting- cooling to stop the roast.
Cheers, Mabuhay, Lloniannau at fy ffrindiau coffi. RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Persist in old ways; expect new results - suborn Insanity...
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13) From: sci
Uhhm...thanks RayO! It all makes perfect sense now.
BTW, in my experience, this bean needs to rest about 7 or more days for the
best flavor to come out. It shows me that some beans need long rest periods.
Ivan
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:05:01 -0600
From: raymanowen
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
       list,   available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"       
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Panama Carmen 7 Dias de la Bellota Help!
Message-ID:
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charsetO-8859-1
"the dT/dt across the individual bean  and the peak temperature of the outer
and centerline of the bean." This will not be the same for every bean in a
roast, and I don't fancy it is for beans in my roast either. I do harbor the
sneaking suspicion that beans gain thermal energy through conduction,
convection and radiation.
The roasting drum is an outstanding example of beans' gaining heat via all
three modes. Due to the ultra short electromagnetic wavelength of Infra Red
radiation, it cannot penetrate the surface of the bean and depends on
thermal conductivity and cascading radiation to thoroughly heat the
succeeding layers of the bean after the first surfaces.
The first surfaces gain heat, by whatever method, es macht nichts how.
Afterward, all succeeding heat transfer to the cascading interior "surfaces"
after the first is the same. Microwaves are able to bake [ruin] and cook
[ruin] cakes and steaks from within because of the wavelengths of a few
inches generated by the cavity magnetron tubes.
Thermal Infra Red radiation is a longer wavelength, longer than visible
light. Around 0.1mm. Microwaves are about 100X the wavelength, so penetrate
and generate heat deeper.
Of course, the ways and means of accomplishing an apparent thermal profile
are different, and it is an inference that the observations represent the
actual internal temperature of the beans.
Post Hoc, ergo Propter Hoc- if you get the desired flavor from your machines
and methods, don't change a thing. Leave it to others to discuss the fact
that temperature measuring apparatus tells you its temperature. It's a leap
of faith to deduce that what you see is the bean temperature. It's not a
direct function.
I-R devices are good, in that they read the radiation at the bean surface.
Beans are insulators, so the core could be lagging or leading the changing
surface temperature. You hold it steady? So do I- until I get to the last
step in roasting- cooling to stop the roast.
Cheers, Mabuhay, Lloniannau at fy ffrindiau coffi. RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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