HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Coffee and milk (34 msgs / 996 lines)
1) From: John M. Howison
Recognizing the prospect of starting a few arguments, I'd like to
promote my view that for those who want milk in their coffee, skim
milk (rather than whole) allows maximum enjoyment of the subtle
flavors of good coffee, brewed or expressed.
Full disclosure:  I enjoy two distinct beverages (and at least one
dessert) containing coffee.  (1) There's coffee -- coffee coffee; I'd
no sooner put cow juice in that little after-dinner cup than try to
persuade Tom to lactify the cups he cups when deciding what he'll sell
us this winter.  (2) And there's cafe-au-lait, which is a superior way
to start the day, whether the accompanying solid is a croissant,
danish, bacon-and-eggs, or burra huzzri.
If in whatever circumstances you like your java "white," I urge you to
consider seriously whether skim milk rather than whole doesn't provide
a better coffee experience.  If you are addicted to the richer stuff
(Mother and Grandmother, MTRIP, both enhanced their morning pitcher
with light cream), you're welcome to continue, but in my view, you pay
a price in coffee flavor.--
Wondering about that dessert?  It's a stem of ice-cold coffee with a
dollop of sweetened-condensed milk -- which I first experienced at the
end of a summer meal and am occasionally tempted to reproduce.  Yes,
IMHO it's better with the fat-free stuff.
Contra muros, mater rubicolla
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2) From: Allon Stern
On Oct 8, 2010, at 8:14 AM, John M. Howison wrote:
<Snip>
Any milk in coffee will mask the subtle flavors.
When it comes to milk drinks (espresso), the focus is on the milk, not the espresso. The mouthfeel of properly steamed whole milk cannot be beat with lower fat substitutes.
Protein froths. Fat inhibits frothing. This lets skim milk foam easily, but you get a stiff foam that doesn't offer much else.
Fat is flavor.
For those who would rather focus on the subtle flavors of coffee, I'd recommend avoiding milk altogether.
-
allon
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3) From: Hap Maguire
John
I whole heartedly agree. After trying to find a way of cutting back on too much milk with our Lattes, my wife and I settled in with French Press and skim milk. We also have found that skim milk gives the BEST frothed milk that you can get. The frothing experiments started with the steaming of different milks on our Gaggia Classic. Skim milk was by far the best for the froth here.  We have ended up with the skim milk and a Bodum Stainless Steel frother. Its as thick as whipped cream and with a little sweetner and vanilla extract simply divine. This morning's cup is an FC Ethiopian Jimma-Niguisie Lemma
Hap, back to lurk mode.
On Oct 8, 2010, at 6:14 AM, John M. Howison wrote:
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4) From: Tom Ulmer
Adding a few drops of heavy cream is complimentary magic to coffee in my
opinion... of course there is nothing thin and watery about its preparation
in my kitchen. Well-iced, low-fat cow milk is reserved for chasing cookies
or cereal. 
The market for pulp-free juice escapes me as well.

5) From: Dhananjaya
I do most of my drinking as dark au lait - roughly 60% skim milk and the
remaining 40% is a triple-shot espresso with some Turbinado sugar. During
the summer I'll often take it cold.  Then there's the occasional straight
triple-shot, no sugar and always hot. I couldn't hack the whole milk
nowadays as it feels too heavy and tends to mute the coffee for me.
As for dessert, well there's those Skinny Cow French Vanilla Truffle Bars
...
DJ

6) From: miKe mcKoffee
To each their own. Culinary arts of all forms is about flavor and balance.
Generally speaking the higher the quality and more natural the ingredients
the better the "possible" flavors. A huge part of the art is flavor balance.
Whole milk is basically "all of the milk" (with a constant butter fat
averaged rather than varying as it really does in nature) in a modern
pasteurized "you don't have to shake the milk to mix in the cream floating
on top" kind of way. Skim milk is the watery portion left when all of the
cream is skimmed off the top, just a portion of what nature intended as it
left the udder. It has little flavor and hence works poorly in most culinary
arts.
I don't drink lattes of any size because to my palate they are out of
balance with milk eclipsing the coffee too much. They're more a steamed milk
beverage flavored with espresso not espresso enhanced with milk. Same can be
said for most people's renditions of an au-lait, too much milk to coffee. On
the other hand a well made cappuccino is a beverage in "harmonious balance
of espresso, steamed and micro-foamed milk". Yet even a cappuccino is a
relatively rare beverage of consumption for me, maybe one or two a week,
usually preferring the totally unadulterate form of the "bean" in it's
various brewed forms. Yet there are many ways to prepare and consume most
primary ingredients be it coffee or whatever. Is there only one way to
prepare an egg or a cut of beef?
Want to try something really decadant Bryan & I discovered about 1am this
morning? (It was Bry's idea my execution, towards the tail end of a Compass
Coffee new starting this last weekend "central bakery division" session
which now supplies our 3 coffeehouses from the Roastery location) Pour
approx' one ounce cold heaving whipping cream into 3oz macchiato demi, pull
double shot directly on top of cream. Do not stir, consume immediately. The
hot extreme of the bean floating atop the cold extreme of the cow in an
unusual and quite surprisingly remarkable way. I drank mine in my usual
straight shot method one sip, two sip, down and gone while Bry in one and
done. Not sure what to call it yet but it might be illegal in most States.
No it won't be replacing my primary straight shot coffee beverage, but it
will join my repertory.
Indeed you can mix more skim milk with coffee brewed any form and have the
milk have less impact on the flavor of the resulting beverage. Of course,
skim milk has little flavor to begin with. But IMO the flavor quality of
whatever the beverage being made would be superior if using less milk with
more flavor in balance. Why America has such a penchant for huge oversized
beverages is beyond me. Drink less, taste and enjoy it more.
Slave to the Bean  miKe mcKoffee
www.CompassCoffeeRoasting.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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7) From: Andy Thomas
"Drink less, taste and enjoy it more."  Amen to that, miKe.
As for the milk issue, I prefer whole milk to skim on the rare occasions I =
use =
milk with coffee. To my palate, skim milk has an unpleasently sweet flavo=
r that =
doesn't compliment coffee at all. I also prefer whole milk to h&h or cream,=
 so =
it's not that more fat is necessarily better.
Andy
      =
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8) From: mary deem
Mike McKofee  - Thanks for sharing that decadent recipe....will have to
modify it slightly since I have only a moka pot and a French Press.
I drink mainly café au lait which is to say strongly brewed coffee with
heated milk.  I use 2% most of the time since I absolutely detest skim.  I
am with Mike on the skim milk having few if any culinary applications.
Having said that, I do find that using whole milk masks too much of the
coffee - for me at least.
I have found that milk can both obscure and bring out certain naunces in
coffee.  For example, some of the citrusyflavors and acid get obscured by
the addition of milk.  Conversely grain/malt and chocolate flavors become
more noticable with the addition of milk - perhapes because the acid is
reduced?
To add a new twist to this thread, I have found that raw unhomoginzed /
unpasturized  milk, while being lovely to drink, is far too creamy for
coffee.
DJ - Those Skinny Cow French Vanilla Truffle Bars sound divine....
John - Thanks for starting such an interesting thread :)
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9) From: Yakster
My wife makes me put vanilla soy in her cappuccinos.  Tastes ok, I guess,
but I stick with espresso or black coffee.
It's supposed to be harder to steam than milk, but I don't know since that's
what I learned on.  Kirkland brand is not bad.  I tried steaming almond milk
but gave up.
-Chris
Pecked out on my mobile phone.
On Oct 8, 2010 5:34 PM, "mary deem"  wrote:
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10) From: Jon Rosen
There's nothing like the rich flavor of my first couple of cups of freshly =
brewed coffee each morning. I don't want to add any milk to it. Alas, my Te=
chnivorm's thermal carafe only preserves that flavor for a couple of hours,=
 tops. After that, I may drink it black or I may add a little skim or almon=
d milk to it. I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference because the=
 coffee's flavor isn't at its peak. I wonder if there is anything that will=
 preserve that fresh coffee flavor all day.
-Jon
On Oct 8, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Yakster wrote:
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t's
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ilk
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11) From: miKe mcKoffee
Brewing each cup individually as you want it all day long... 
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12) From: miKe mcKoffee
Brewing each cup individually as you want it all day long... 
<Snip>
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13) From: Yakster
+1, I brew enough for the next 15 minutes.
-Chris
Pecked out on my mobile phone.
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14) From: Yakster
+1, I brew enough for the next 15 minutes.
-Chris
Pecked out on my mobile phone.
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15) From: Lynne
Totally agree, MiKe, although I would not have said it so eloquently. :D I
won't, however, be trying that decadent and very tempting combination that
you and Bryan created. I need to lose weight, and the past year and (almost)
a half in no-man's land has kept me house bound too much, and I don't need
any extra help with the widening of my hips, lol! What I do like is when I
whip up nonfat milk w/my Bamix (stick blender). I make it thick so I'm
fooling myself into thinking it's cream (whipped cream even).
I feel - to each his or her own. I've had too many people in the past trying
to tell me what to do with every bit of my life. Lord knows, I don't want to
do the same to others.
For me - I'll always love the taste and texture of cream in my coffee. I
drink it black sometimes (oh, that first black moka-cup after my months long
imprisonment with grocery-store coffee was like an elixir from heaven!) But
I do love to add milk (was strong and bought nonfat for awhile - whole is
great, but I'm compromising for my health & buying 2%), making a very strong
version of an Americano (my own version, cuz I don't need no stinkin' rules.
;D)
Alas, I am lactose intolerant - I can drink a small amt, but would be wise
to do w/out it altogether. Hate the flavor of soy milk in my homeroast - has
an awful slight aftertaste that drives me nuts. Speaking of which, haven't
found a tasty nut milk that I'd like in my coffee either. The lactose free
milks don't work for me, either.
Sigh... think I'm headed back to training myself back to drinking black. As
long as I do a decent job w/the homeroast, I'm fine. Unfortunately, I've had
more than my share of trouble the past few months, so my roasting might not
be totally up to par.
Lynne
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 4:34 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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16) From: Lynne
Totally agree, MiKe, although I would not have said it so eloquently. :D I
won't, however, be trying that decadent and very tempting combination that
you and Bryan created. I need to lose weight, and the past year and (almost)
a half in no-man's land has kept me house bound too much, and I don't need
any extra help with the widening of my hips, lol! What I do like is when I
whip up nonfat milk w/my Bamix (stick blender). I make it thick so I'm
fooling myself into thinking it's cream (whipped cream even).
I feel - to each his or her own. I've had too many people in the past trying
to tell me what to do with every bit of my life. Lord knows, I don't want to
do the same to others.
For me - I'll always love the taste and texture of cream in my coffee. I
drink it black sometimes (oh, that first black moka-cup after my months long
imprisonment with grocery-store coffee was like an elixir from heaven!) But
I do love to add milk (was strong and bought nonfat for awhile - whole is
great, but I'm compromising for my health & buying 2%), making a very strong
version of an Americano (my own version, cuz I don't need no stinkin' rules.
;D)
Alas, I am lactose intolerant - I can drink a small amt, but would be wise
to do w/out it altogether. Hate the flavor of soy milk in my homeroast - has
an awful slight aftertaste that drives me nuts. Speaking of which, haven't
found a tasty nut milk that I'd like in my coffee either. The lactose free
milks don't work for me, either.
Sigh... think I'm headed back to training myself back to drinking black. As
long as I do a decent job w/the homeroast, I'm fine. Unfortunately, I've had
more than my share of trouble the past few months, so my roasting might not
be totally up to par.
Lynne
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 4:34 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
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17) From: Robert Yoder
Hi MiKe, and all,
 
Years ago, when I did the Oakland-SF Bay Bridge Commute in prime time, I started with a decent "Cafe Au Lait" as offered by one of the more precious Berkeley Locations.  I became convinced that the presence of the milk (I always asked for low-fat) calmed the caffeine uptake curve, as well as making the fall-off less precipitous.  Thus the benefit of the caffeine was extended and less abrupt at onset and offset. 
 
That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.
 
Happy Roasting,
 
robert yoder
 
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Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Coffee and milk
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There's nothing like the rich flavor of my first couple of cups of freshly =
brewed coffee each morning. I don't want to add any milk to it. Alas, my Te=
chnivorm's thermal carafe only preserves that flavor for a couple of hours,=
 tops. After that, I may drink it black or I may add a little skim or almon=
d milk to it. I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference because the=
 coffee's flavor isn't at its peak. I wonder if there is anything that will=
 preserve that fresh coffee flavor all day.
-Jon
On Oct 8, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Yakster wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
t's
<Snip>
ilk
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
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18) From: Robert Yoder
Hi MiKe, and all,
 
Years ago, when I did the Oakland-SF Bay Bridge Commute in prime time, I started with a decent "Cafe Au Lait" as offered by one of the more precious Berkeley Locations.  I became convinced that the presence of the milk (I always asked for low-fat) calmed the caffeine uptake curve, as well as making the fall-off less precipitous.  Thus the benefit of the caffeine was extended and less abrupt at onset and offset. 
 
That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.
 
Happy Roasting,
 
robert yoder
 
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Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Coffee and milk
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There's nothing like the rich flavor of my first couple of cups of freshly =
brewed coffee each morning. I don't want to add any milk to it. Alas, my Te=
chnivorm's thermal carafe only preserves that flavor for a couple of hours,=
 tops. After that, I may drink it black or I may add a little skim or almon=
d milk to it. I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference because the=
 coffee's flavor isn't at its peak. I wonder if there is anything that will=
 preserve that fresh coffee flavor all day.
-Jon
On Oct 8, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Yakster wrote:
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19) From: Allon Stern
On Oct 8, 2010, at 4:34 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
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So what are you going to call this concoction? 
How about: "How Now, Brown Cow!", or just "Brown cow"
Or black cow ;)
Or HOLY COW!
(just promise me you WON'T be trying "holy guacamole!"  Bleah!
:D
-
allon
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20) From: Barbara Greenspon
OT + OT
Lynne, try DairyCare.  No one is more lactose intolerant than I am (and believe me, I'm not bragging!!) and two capsules every morning lets me have any amount of milk of any kind that I might desire!  (I get it online, but it is in some drugstores on the East Coast, where I'm not.)
Barbara
On Oct 8, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Lynne wrote:
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21) From: John M. Howison
Maybe I should have made the subject "coffee and milk" instead of
"milk and coffee."  Fortunately, my heresy provoked no invitations to
duel.
I've learned from the responses to my view. Am particularly intrigued
by the prospect of one of Mike's decadent desserts.  Am impressed that
most respondents cling to the idea that if there's any coffee in it,
it's coffee, and any additive is an adulterant, maybe interesting,
probably hostile.  For me coffee is one thing and cafe-au-lait is
another;  my query was about different versions of the latter.  Didja
ever, ever hear a Frenchman/woman ask for straight coffee with his/her
croissant, or ask for a demi-tasse blanche?  Didja ever hear a Greek,
Turk or A-rab ask for milk or yoghurt with his breeky?  Ever hear
anybody call a glass of cordial a pousse-cafe-au-lait?
I'm grateful that not even the purists got huffy, as I do when at one
of the coffee bars that have only recently found my area I'm offered a
shot of fruit syrup in my coffee --and for just $.25.
-- 
Contra muros, mater rubicolla
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22) From: Dhananjaya
Oops, I just realized I dislexed my fractions - that's 40% organic skim milk
/ 60% triple-shot, but that's still too much lactose for most :-).
Mary, those Skinny Cow bars are so good I'm sure they're lying about the
nutritional facts ...
Cheers!
DJ

23) From: Lynne
Thanks, Barbara, I'll give it a try. Lord knows I've tried everything else I
could find (and I *thought *I liked soy creamer before - ugh!)
Oh... for some ice cream again. Not that I actually *need* ice cream - I
went from not even liking it in my younger days to becoming an I.C. addict!
Mmmm (those conversations we had here about making our own coffee ice cream
w/homeroast drove me *crazy!*)
Lynne
On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Barbara Greenspon <
lilysownahmah> wrote:
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24) From: Hank Perkins
At my house we call ice cream Crack. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Lynne  wrote:
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25) From: michael kaericher
I just tried this at 1.5 oz heavy whipping cream + 2.5 oz triple pull.  W=
ow what a drink.  Looks fabulous too.  Like the coffee and cream are fi=
ghting their inevitable perfect union.
 
-Mike =
--- On Fri, 10/8/10, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
Want to try something really decadant Bryan & I discovered about 1am this
morning? (It was Bry's idea my execution, towards the tail end of a Compass
Coffee new starting this last weekend "central bakery division" session
which now supplies our 3 coffeehouses from the Roastery location) Pour
approx' one ounce cold heaving whipping cream into 3oz macchiato demi, pull
double shot directly on top of cream. Do not stir, consume immediately. The
hot extreme of the bean floating atop the cold extreme of the cow in an
unusual and quite surprisingly remarkable way. I drank mine in my usual
straight shot method one sip, two sip, down and gone while Bry in one and
done. Not sure what to call it yet but it might be illegal in most States.
No it won't be replacing my primary straight shot coffee beverage, but it
will join my repertory.
      =
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26) From: Sandy Andina
sounds kind of like a sugar-free, full-fat take on Vietnamese drip. gotta try it.
On Oct 10, 2010, at 1:13 PM, michael kaericher wrote:
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Peace & song, 
Sandy 
www.sandyandina.com
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27) From: Yakster
Mike, its all your fault;-) after reading this I've been looking for cream
whippers, and Smart And Final had one on clearance yesterday.
I'm loving this with Liquid Amber, but its too much funk from the Monsooned
Malabar for the Wife.
You'll have to come up with a name for this decadent drink.http://twitpic.com/2yjbfghttp://twitpic.com/2yjbpu
-Chris
Pecked out on my mobile phone.
On Oct 8, 2010 1:34 PM, "miKe mcKoffee"  wrote:
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28) From: Scott Miller
The name? ... panna affogato... it's going on my menu.
Hey, I know a good idea when I steal it!
cheers,
Scott
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Yakster  wrote:
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29) From: miKe mcKoffee
What you're making is a con panna, espresso with "whipped" cream. I was
talking about plain unadulterated "heaving whipping cream" in the demi
first, before being whipped and/or sweetened. Which technically would be a
non-whipped con panna me thinks since con panna means "espresso with cream"
in Italian, though I've always known a con panna to be made with whipped
cream.
Slave to the Bean  miKe mcKoffee
www.CompassCoffeeRoasting.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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30) From: Yakster
Doh!
I'll have to go back and try it the way you described later.
The whipper will get use for hot cocoa duty and maybe some infusion
experiments.
-Chris
Pecked out on my mobile phone.
On Oct 17, 2010 1:37 PM, "miKe mcKoffee"  wrote:
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cream"
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enlightenment
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before.
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31) From: Yakster
I just tried this pulling Liquid Amber into unwhipped Heavy Whipping Cream
as intended, very nice.
This could be habit forming.
I'm surprised by how long the whipped cream is lasting in the cream whipper
despite all the hot chocolate I've been topping with it.
-Chris
-Chris
Pecked out on my mobile phone.
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32) From: Bob Hazen
One of my favorite cold winter night beverages is Irish Coffee.  Made with 
partially whipped cream, good coffee, a little raw sugar and Jameson whisky 
it's tasty.  I wonder how this might work out with espresso.
Bob
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33) From: Sandy Andina
Irish-Italian coffee?
On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Bob Hazen wrote:
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Peace & song, 
Sandy 
www.sandyandina.com
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34) From: miKe mcKoffee
If I was still a person of drinking persuasion I'd try putting in 3oz
macchiato demi first: 1/2oz Jameson, 1oz heavy whipping cream, splash
turbonado heavy syrup and stir (or not stir but think so), then pull double
shot on top.
Surrendered to and gave up alcohol almost thiry years ago so one of you will
have to try it! Hmmm, though I just may make one for Debi:)
Slave to the Bean  miKe mcKoffee
www.CompassCoffeeRoasting.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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