HomeRoast Digest


Topic: A difference of degree.... (14 msgs / 479 lines)
1) From: Allon Stern
or degrees....
I was wondering if maybe I wasn't quite hitting the mark on miKe's Jimma profile, since I wasn't sure if my roaster (modified iRoast) was cooling fast enough, and maybe I was skidding past the mark and getting a bit darker than desired.
As an experiment, I tried setting the EOR temperature to 430 (instead of 432), keeping the time the same.
What a difference these two degrees make. After a couple of days of rest, I don't get the same fruitedness. It's a good coffee, balanced, good body, but just doesn't have the Jimma zing.
Maybe I'll try a batch at 434 just to try the other end. I'd hate to waste this fantastic coffee, though, but learning is good :D
-
allon
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2) From: Brian Kamnetz
Very interesting, Allon, and I look forward to hearing further results.
Brian
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Bryan Wray
Honestly I'd be curious to know what other differences there were.
While 2 degrees is a difference, it shouldn't be THAT noticeable in the cup=
, not if those degrees refer to roasting.
Differences in rest, dosing, brewing temperature, extraction yield... I wou=
ld honestly attribute those to the different flavors before I would the 2 d=
egrees of separation between the two roasts.
Did they run the same profile?  Meaning did you have first crack and end =
of roast at the same times for the two roasts?
-bry
Bryan Wray
Compass Coffee
360.831.1480
Bryan
It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine =
delivery service, it can be a culinary art- Chris Owens
--- On Mon, 10/25/10, Allon Stern  wrote:
From: Allon Stern 
Subject: [Homeroast] A difference of degree....
To: "available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.htmlA list to di=
scuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list" 
Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:13 PM
or degrees....
I was wondering if maybe I wasn't quite hitting the mark on miKe's Jimma pr=
ofile, since I wasn't sure if my roaster (modified iRoast) was cooling fast=
 enough, and maybe I was skidding past the mark and getting a bit darker th=
an desired.
As an experiment, I tried setting the EOR temperature to 430 (instead of 43=
2), keeping the time the same.
What a difference these two degrees make. After a couple of days of rest, I=
 don't get the same fruitedness. It's a good coffee, balanced, good body, b=
ut just doesn't have the Jimma zing.
Maybe I'll try a batch at 434 just to try the other end. I'd hate to waste =
this fantastic coffee, though, but learning is good :D
-
allon
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      =
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4) From: Allon Stern
On Oct 25, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Bryan Wray wrote:
<Snip>
Well, I used the PID iRoast - I ran the same program, adjusting only the end temperature, meaning that the ramp would have been slightly slower, but the total time was the same. I cannot hear the cracks on this machine.
Both samples were rested, dosed, and brewed exactly the same, 3 days of rest, two AP scoops, ground in the same grinder on the same setting and brewed in the same automatic drip pot.
Profile A:
300f 5min
405f 11min
432f 14:15
Profile B:
300f 5min
405f 11min
430f 14:15
There may be more subtle differences creeping in elsewhere, but I can't think what else. Maybe the thermocouple placement was not optimal, leading to more variation than is otherwise evident. Got me.
-
allon
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5) From: Tom Ulmer
Maybe my roasting process has evolved askew - I am curious how do you roast
without hearing cracks?

6) From: Allon Stern
On Oct 25, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Bryan Wray wrote:
<Snip>
Well, I used the PID iRoast - I ran the same program, adjusting only the end temperature, meaning that the ramp would have been slightly slower, but the total time was the same. I cannot hear the cracks on this machine.
Both samples were rested, dosed, and brewed exactly the same, 3 days of rest, two AP scoops, ground in the same grinder on the same setting and brewed in the same automatic drip pot.
Profile A:
300f 5min
405f 11min
432f 14:15
Profile B:
300f 5min
405f 11min
430f 14:15
There may be more subtle differences creeping in elsewhere, but I can't think what else. Maybe the thermocouple placement was not optimal, leading to more variation than is otherwise evident. Got me.
-
allon
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7) From: Sergio Kusevitzky
Allon,
Did you roast in the same day?
Did you tried them one after the other?
I understand that the "coffee preparation process" was similar, but what about 
the drinking status?
Sergio
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"Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail"
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From: Allon Stern 
To:"A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list, 
available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 8:23:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] A difference of degree....
On Oct 25, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Bryan Wray wrote:
<Snip>
Well, I used the PID iRoast - I ran the same program, adjusting only the end 
temperature, meaning that the ramp would have been slightly slower, but the 
total time was the same. I cannot hear the cracks on this machine.
Both samples were rested, dosed, and brewed exactly the same, 3 days of rest, 
two AP scoops, ground in the same grinder on the same setting and brewed in the 
same automatic drip pot.
Profile A:
300f 5min
405f 11min
432f 14:15
Profile B:
300f 5min
405f 11min
430f 14:15
There may be more subtle differences creeping in elsewhere, but I can't think 
what else. Maybe the thermocouple placement was not optimal, leading to more 
variation than is otherwise evident. Got me.
-
allon
Homeroast mailing list
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8) From: Allon Stern
On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Tom Ulmer wrote:
<Snip>
With heat.
Seriously, cracks do not roast the beans.
Hearing the cracks is a good guide for the roasting process, especially when you're roasting with full manual control, but you can also know a lot about the stages of roasting by other means, such as smoke, appearance of the beans, and watching the temperature/heat input to know when you're hitting the sivitz bumps.
The iRoast just makes too much noise to hear the cracks, a common complaint.
-
allon
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9) From: Allon Stern
On Oct 27, 2010, at 4:55 AM, Sergio Kusevitzky wrote:
<Snip>
No, I did not roast them the same day.
<Snip>
On different days.
<Snip>
Status: both of them have been drunk :D
Seriously, all good points, 
This wasn't really a controlled experiment, more of an observation.
I was looking for something that was there before, but turned out to be lacking in this other roast. Maybe other variables. Not sure, but all the other roasts I'd done came out with that zing.
-
allon
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10) From: Tom Ulmer
The generic application of heat you say... 
I would add smell to the list of other means as well. Still, if the
relationship of these indicators to cracks is unknown they are meaningless.
Data logging a device with kitchen toaster control seems a great bit over
the top in my estimation; however necessity is the mother of invention.

11) From: Sergio Kusevitzky
:)
The point is that I've found that many times, a blend "behaved" according to my 
spirit at this moment...
but if you were drunk anyhow... who cares about the coffee then?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail"
"Por favor, considere su responsabilidad por el medio ambiente antes de imprimir 
este mensaje"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Allon Stern 
To:"A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this list, 
available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"
Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 1:14:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] A difference of degree....
On Oct 27, 2010, at 4:55 AM, Sergio Kusevitzky wrote:
<Snip>
No, I did not roast them the same day.
<Snip>
On different days.
<Snip>
<Snip>
Status: both of them have been drunk :D
Seriously, all good points, 
This wasn't really a controlled experiment, more of an observation.
I was looking for something that was there before, but turned out to be lacking 
in this other roast. Maybe other variables. Not sure, but all the other roasts 
I'd done came out with that zing.
-
allon
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12) From: mary deem
Allon -
I think a few degrees can make quite a difference in terms of sweetness.
I roast with a WB Poppery I and find that going above 430 - even by only 5
degrees can result in the loss of some fruit-especially in some Kenyans or
Colombian from Tolima.  In the latter case, the lost fruit is sometimes
replaced by soft chocolate notes, depending on the bean.
Conversely, some of those same coffees really blossom at a range of
425-430.  If roasted under that range, the fruit does not really come out.
In the case of Kenyans, I find that the wine notes seem to really develope
at that range.
I have not, however, tried roasting the Jimma though.  My green bean stash
is taking over the pantry so I have to roast some of it down before any more
purchases!  I am, however, enjoying all of these Jimma discussions: sounds
like this is a slightly more challenging bean to roast.  The sort that makes
one a better roaster in the end :)
Mary
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13) From: Michael Dhabolt
Allon,
I don't find your results surprising.  My experience has been that two
degrees can produce a dramatic difference when you are right at the
'sweet spot'.  A PID controlled profile is about as consistent as you
can get in any kind of a controlled experiment.  The only other
roasting control environment that would meet the same level of
consistency is the PLC driven machines (many of which are using PID
algorithms within the PLC).
Mike (just plain)
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14) From: miKe mcKoffee
Part of me wanted to say a couple degrees shouldn't make that big a
difference. And of course found myself tweaking a profile ONE degree this
afternoon... Not saying that one degree tweak will make a big difference,
but it will make a difference:)
(FWIW wasn't on my Jimma profile, one of my 4 Delirium profiles.)
Oh, another FWIW the tweak made while customers have been saying Delirium is
singing the best it ever has for weeks, go figure, who me never satisfied?
Slave to the Bean  miKe mcKoffee
www.CompassCoffeeRoasting.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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