HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Rocky or Vario? (12 msgs / 325 lines)
1) From: sci
I'm going to be replacing my old Virtuoso soon with an all purpose grinder
that will not be used for espresso.
 I want a versatile grinder for all other brewing methods. The Vario and the
Rocky look nice, especially the Vario.
Does anybody here have experience with the Vario? Any other recommendations.
The price of the Vario is a little steep, but with the ceramic burrs, it may
be worth it.
Thanks,
Ivan
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2) From: miKe mcKoffee
If targeted for strictly non-espresso grinding I wouldn't consider the
Rocky. I have had one for nine years, and while it can be used for
non-espresso grinding it is not it's forte'. Espresso grind ideally is
plurimodal while non-espresso unimodal, Rocky's burrs are designed for
espresso grinding.
I also wouldn't what I'd consider waste my money on the Vario for
non-espresso grinding. While yes the ceramic burrs will last longer how many
times over how many years would you have to replace the burrs on the Vituoso
to make up the cost difference? Virtuoso new $225, Vario $450. Top and
bottom replacement burrs for the Virtuoso $32, 7 sets of burrs to make up
the difference. Even heavy home non espresso usage likely need to replace
but once a year to keep Virtuoso grinding excellent not just good...
And since you already have a Virtuoso, have you replaced the burrs lately?
Why do you want to replace the grinder? Are the 40 steps not enough for your
non-espresso needs? (find that hard to believe, unless Turkish comes into
the equation)
Slave to the Bean  miKe mcKoffee
www.CompassCoffeeRoasting.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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3) From: John A C Despres
I used my Virtuoso for 2 years before I upgraded for espresso. Replacing the
burrs is not terribly easy, but a call to Kyle at Baratza will help. I'd
still be using the Virtuoso had I not wanted a better grind for shots.
A friend has a Vario and aside from the ceramic burrs, I'm not terribly
impressed one way or the other as to it's abilities. He brews drip in a TV
every day and I cannot say the Vario is any better for drip than my Mazzer
Mini or the Virtuoso.
Keep the Virtuoso, I suggest.
John
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:22 AM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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4) From: John and Emma
For non-espresso there is no need to upgrade. As has already been suggested
keep the burrs replaced and enjoy the fact you already have a great
non-espresso grinder.
John H.

5) From: sci
Thanks miKe and John for the perspective. I can rule out the Rocky. My
purchase is no rush, just next. I have replaced burrs in the Virtuoso twice,
once both top and bottom, and the second time just the top. Replacing the
bottom cone burr was like getting a root canal. It was stuck on the shaft
and nigh impossible to twist off. I think the process took me close to 3
hours when I thought it would be a 20 min job. After that, I only replace
the top burr, which can be done in 30 seconds for $25. The Virtuoso has been
a nice daily grinder, and I highly recommend it, but I'd like to invest in
something professional without spending $1800 on a Mahlkonig. Often I need
to grind large quantities for an event or a friend. It needs to fit in a
modest kitchen, but since coffee is a priority, I'd even make room for a
tank like the Robur, if I could afford it. I have an SJ w/doser dedicated
for espresso, so whatever I get would not be tasked for espresso, except as
a backup. I use most of the types of brewing methods we discuss around here,
so I want a grinder that has the versatility (using the right modal grind)
for the broadest range of brew methods. On the occasions I drink Turkish
style, I use my Zass so that grind isn't critical.
Any suggestions on the ideal niche grinder?
Or do you think the Virtuoso is still it?
Thanks
Ivan
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: John A C Despres 
To: "A list to discuss home coffee roasting. There are rules for this
       list,   available athttp://www.sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html"       
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Rocky or Vario?
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I used my Virtuoso for 2 years before I upgraded for espresso. Replacing the
burrs is not terribly easy, but a call to Kyle at Baratza will help. I'd
still be using the Virtuoso had I not wanted a better grind for shots.
A friend has a Vario and aside from the ceramic burrs, I'm not terribly
impressed one way or the other as to it's abilities. He brews drip in a TV
every day and I cannot say the Vario is any better for drip than my Mazzer
Mini or the Virtuoso.
Keep the Virtuoso, I suggest.
John
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:22 AM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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enlightenment
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6) From: Ira
At 11:23 AM 1/9/2011, you wrote:
<Snip>
I'd say since you already have an espresso grinder and all the other 
methods of brewing involve drip, french press or the like, I'd say an 
eBay Bunn or Ditting with new burrs might be the best solution.
Ira
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7) From: John Borella
You might want to consider one of these:http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/511012 I use a modified Bunn G3 (stepless adjustment/Ditting 804 machined burrs), 
AKA Bunnzilla, for my brew grinding but it is big.
John B.
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8) From: Robert Bedwell
John...
Thanks for the link.
I have been back and forth looking at this for over a week.  
I think it is an overkill for me.  I returned the Mazzer SJ to Nasi because I didn't use it as much as I thought I would.  Although Nasi said he replaced the burrs in the SJ it had the weirdest grind I have ever seen.  Regardless of the grind setting the grind had lighter colored flakes in it mixed with the normal grind color.  First reactions was it was chaff mixed in but it couldn't have been.  I am obsessive about cleaning the chaff out of my roasted beans.  When I make regular coffee I just use the Macap.  A G1 would better suit my non-espress.  
On Jan 9, 2011, at 3:05 PM, John Borella wrote:
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9) From: miKe mcKoffee
Now that you've added bulk volume grinding to the picture no, I wouldn't
recommend the Virtuoso or any Baratza grinder including the Vario. They are
intended for home use, low volume use. If only grinding a pound now and then
you could get by with them sure but grinders like the Bunn G series are made
for this type of thing. And do a very good job. Be aware if buying a used
Bunn G series assume you'll need new burrs, $200, rated 30,000lb burr life
so really more like 15,000lb. Still that's a hill-o-beans:)
We use Bunn G grinders from single pourover to grinding 5 pounder bags now
and then, when forced by a wholesale customer who won't spring for a grinder
for their drip program.
Slave to the Bean  miKe mcKoffee
www.CompassCoffeeRoasting.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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10) From: Doug Hoople
FWIW, I had a Virtuoso and a Vario in my kitchen side-by-side for short
while. I was, as some here might recall, brewing for a vacuum pot, mostly
dark roast coffees.
I personally noticed that the Vario produced a more consistent grind than
the Virtuoso, and the cup I was producing was noticeably sweeter. All
subtleties, but the difference was noticeable to me.
Just my $0.02
Doug
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 5:49 PM, sci  wrote:
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11) From: miKe mcKoffee
Question, when you did the comparison about how many pounds had been ground
through the Virtuoso, the Vario. If for instance the Virtuoso had 50 pounds
already run through it while the Vario almost new would not have been a
valid comparison.
Slave to the Bean  miKe mcKoffee
www.CompassCoffeeRoasting.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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12) From: Doug Hoople
Good question, MiKe.
Probably no more than 10 or 20 pounds, actually. .
Kyle at Baratza had just sent me a hot spare Virtuoso and return shipping
instructions for my original after I made the foolish mistake of thinking I
could grind green beans in it (stupid brainfart and don't ask :)). Thanks
again, Kyle, btw, for really extraordinary customer service!
So my comparisons were being made with two grinders that were essentially
new.
Doug
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 6:28 AM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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