HomeRoast Digest


Topic: First roasts in the QM3 (17 msgs / 517 lines)
1) From: Frank Parth
Today I did my first roasts in the QM3, three 175 gm roasts back to back.
Tom's YouTube video on the machine is a great way to get familiar with it.
First reaction is that this machine gives a lot of control over the roast, much more than the GC I've been using or the 
old Zach & Dani's I started with. But along with control comes the need to constantly pay attention to it.
No longer can I pour a couple fingers of single malt, light a pipe, and grab a book for the first 10-15 minutes of the 
roast like I did on the GC. Well, maybe I could get away with pouring the scotch. But once the roast gets up to 200 
degrees C things start to happen much more quickly and you gotta pay attention.
I started with Hank's guide for time and temperature. I took his idea of turning the fan up full for 45 seconds once 
into first crack just to slow down the rise in temperature and it worked out pretty well. I could tightly control the 
time between first and second crack by varying the heaters and the fan.
Once I dumped the beans I shut off the heaters and turned the fan up high to cool down the roast (which happens very 
quickly). I'm wondering if I need to shut the heaters off or just turn them down to reduce the time spent waiting 
before I can dump in the next load of beans.
The directions say to plug directly into a wall outlet, not through an extension cord. I'm wondering if this exclusion 
also applies to the Variac I've had the GC plugged into. I would think it would prevent some of the voltage drop that 
normally occurs.
Now that I'm no longer a QM3 virgin, I'll have to start shooting for consistency.
Frank
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2) From: Robert Bedwell
Frank....two of us lost our Quest virginity today!
I did two roasts.  The first one was much too long at around 18minutes.  I started off with the amps at 7.5 and the fan at 4 and once the beans were dropped in at 392F I didn't realize there was enough power to take it to first crack fast enough.  The second roast was 14.5 minutes with a power setting of 8.5 and fan speed of 4-5.  Much better.  Still a learning curve but I definitely learned something today with the Quest compared to the Hottop.   I am impressed with it's quietness and the containment of chaff.  The ambient temperature was 58F today in the garage.  My Quest has been double insulated but don't know what would have happened if it hadn't been.  I am using around 15 feet of 12 gauge extension cords with a Kill-O-Watt and it doesn't appear to be affecting the output.  
Frank, on the first page of the Quest manual they state, "Do not use any voltage stabilizer or booster on M3."  They don't explain why not to.
Best to you with the roast.
Unfortunately I didn't even get kissed with this virginity loss! 
Bob
On Jan 30, 2011, at 5:26 PM, Frank Parth wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Frank Parth
Robert,
Congratulations to you, too!
My ambient temp was 62 degrees F. My QM3 was straight out of the box and the only thing I noticed was that it took 
several minutes to pre-heat to 200 C.
I've got some of the add-ons ordered so that I can more accurately monitor temps and temperature ramps. The goal isto 
connect the meter to my Mac laptop and plot a graph of the temperature rise in real-time.
Sorry you didn't get kissed. Puts me in line of a joke I heard recently: "I disagree with Kay Jewelers. I would bet on 
any given Friday or Saturday night more kisses begin with Miller Lite than with Kay."
Frank
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4) From: Hank Perkins
The reason why they say not to use a voltage stabilization device is
it is not required.  No computer (voltage sensitive) throttling the
heating element.  The juice goes straight to the heating elements and
some devices can throttle the amperage (think power strip).  Quest is
amperage sensiteve not voltage sensitive.
 The issue with the extension cord is a gauge issue and resistance issue.
I am running mostly 225g loads now but in my experience the roaster
produces a MUCH better product with125g.  Being hard headed, I am
trying to replicate the 125g at 225.  Mind you the 225g loads are
freakin fantastic.
I would pull the kill a watt.  I don't think you need it here.  The
roaster is not controlled by electronics.
Before I got the Quest my engineer and I had a long talk about
Variac's.  According to him, they have some downside.  Don't ask me, I
am NOT an engineer by education.  I think it has to do with the Variac
turning amperage into higher voltage. Frankly, I am out of my league
here.
Good Luck
Hank
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Robert Bedwell  wrote:
<Snip>
 I started off with the amps at 7.5 and the fan at 4 and once the beans =
were dropped in at 392F I didn't realize there was enough power to take it =
to first crack fast enough. The second roast was 14.5 minutes with a pow=
er setting of 8.5 and fan speed of 4-5. Much better. Still a learning=
 curve but I definitely learned something today with the Quest compared to =
the Hottop.  I am impressed with it's quietness and the containment of c=
haff. The ambient temperature was 58F today in the garage. My Quest h=
as been double insulated but don't know what would have happened if it hadn=
't been. I am using around 15 feet of 12 gauge extension cords with a Ki=
ll-O-Watt and it doesn't appear to be affecting the output.
<Snip>
voltage stabilizer or booster on M3." They don't explain why not to.
<Snip>
t.
<Snip>
t, much more than the GC I've been using or the old Zach & Dani's I started=
 with. But along with control comes the need to constantly pay attention to=
 it.
<Snip>
grab a book for the first 10-15 minutes of the roast like I did on the GC. =
Well, maybe I could get away with pouring the scotch. But once the roast ge=
ts up to 200 degrees C things start to happen much more quickly and you got=
ta pay attention.
<Snip>
 turning the fan up full for 45 seconds once into first crack just to slow =
down the rise in temperature and it worked out pretty well. I could tightly=
 control the time between first and second crack by varying the heaters and=
 the fan.
<Snip>
h to cool down the roast (which happens very quickly). I'm wondering if I n=
eed to shut the heaters off or just turn them down to reduce the time spent=
 waiting before I can dump in the next load of beans.
<Snip>
xtension cord. I'm wondering if this exclusion also applies to the Variac I=
've had the GC plugged into. I would think it would prevent some of the vol=
tage drop that normally occurs.
<Snip>
sistency.
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
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5) From: Rich
E  If you have no E you will have no I and R is constant.
On 01/30/2011 08:26 PM, Hank Perkins wrote:
<Snip>
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6) From: Robert Bedwell
Thank you Hank.
Couple of questions please.
You state, "the issue with the extension cord is gauge issue and resistance issue."  
Since I am using a 12 gauge cord do you think I have too much resistance?
The reason I use the Kill a Watt is the more precise control I have of the amperage.  However, it may be an overkill.
Although I have a Staco Variac I never used it with my Hottop or Variac.  Stable power was never an issue
with the Hottop and doesn't appear to be with the Quest.
I appreciate all you contribution.
Bob
On Jan 30, 2011, at 10:04 PM, Rich wrote:
<Snip>
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7) From: Hank Perkins
Well I am not an engineer.  But I would expect not.  If you built it
out of romex I would say you should be good.  One way to check is to
see if the cord gets hot at all.  If not, then I would say you should
be ok.  Maybe someone who is a real engineer here will weigh in.  I
just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Robert Bedwell  wrote:
<Snip>
ce issue."
<Snip>
e amperage. However, it may be an overkill.
<Snip>
Stable power was never an issue
<Snip>
sue.
<Snip>
, I
<Snip>
ote:
<Snip>
es. I started off with the amps at 7.5 and the fan at 4 and once the bea=
ns were dropped in at 392F I didn't realize there was enough power to take =
it to first crack fast enough. The second roast was 14.5 minutes with a =
power setting of 8.5 and fan speed of 4-5. Much better. Still a learn=
ing curve but I definitely learned something today with the Quest compared =
to the Hottop.  I am impressed with it's quietness and the containment o=
f chaff. The ambient temperature was 58F today in the garage. My Ques=
t has been double insulated but don't know what would have happened if it h=
adn't been. I am using around 15 feet of 12 gauge extension cords with a=
 Kill-O-Watt and it doesn't appear to be affecting the output.
<Snip>
ny voltage stabilizer or booster on M3." They don't explain why not to.
<Snip>
ack.
<Snip>
h it.
<Snip>
oast, much more than the GC I've been using or the old Zach& Dani's I st=
arted with. But along with control comes the need to constantly pay attenti=
on to it.
<Snip>
nd grab a book for the first 10-15 minutes of the roast like I did on the G=
C. Well, maybe I could get away with pouring the scotch. But once the roast=
 gets up to 200 degrees C things start to happen much more quickly and you =
gotta pay attention.
<Snip>
 of turning the fan up full for 45 seconds once into first crack just to sl=
ow down the rise in temperature and it worked out pretty well. I could tigh=
tly control the time between first and second crack by varying the heaters =
and the fan.
<Snip>
high to cool down the roast (which happens very quickly). I'm wondering if =
I need to shut the heaters off or just turn them down to reduce the time sp=
ent waiting before I can dump in the next load of beans.
<Snip>
n extension cord. I'm wondering if this exclusion also applies to the Varia=
c I've had the GC plugged into. I would think it would prevent some of the =
voltage drop that normally occurs.
<Snip>
consistency.
<Snip>
weetmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
coffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
eetmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
offee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
etmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

8) From: Robert Bedwell
Thanks Hank...didn't think of seeing if the cord gets hot.  However I believe with the Quest I can easily go back to using a much shorter extension cord and perhaps not one at all.
The reason that I used a longer one was to get closer to the garage entrance for easier cleanup of of chaff from the Hottop.   This is not going to be an issue with the Quest...thankfully!
 Bob
On Jan 31, 2011, at 6:04 AM, Hank Perkins wrote:
<Snip>
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9) From: Hank Perkins
Be sure to stay with a big gauge if you change it. And yea the Quest does a fantastic job with the chaff. Especially when you run the fan up for 90 sec during 1C. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 31, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Robert Bedwell  wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Robert Bedwell
Thanks...I will let you know the effect of shortening the cord.
I had the fan running at 4-5 during the 1C.  Seems like I read that it should have been cranked up higher.    The rate of temperature rise was running 7-11 degree per minute and I was concerned that I would stall if I ran the fan higher.  
It's really a challenge learning how to control this bugger.  
On Jan 31, 2011, at 10:44 AM, Hank Perkins wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: Hank Perkins
It is only a challege at first. Soon it will be as simple as your HT. 
Brew up some of what you roasted even if it hasnt been 5 days and give us a report. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 31, 2011, at 10:02 AM, Robert Bedwell  wrote:
<Snip>
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12) From: Jeff Bensen
Bob -
I believe Hank is steering you correctly. From the Quest M3 manual (page 3):
"The extended wires and adapters may reduce the power. Try not to use 
them. If it is necessary to use the extended wires or the adapters, 
please use the thicker wires and the plugs and sockets which are able 
to afford high current."
Reading through the broken English, it appears they are saying 'if 
you need to use an extension cord, use a heavy gauge that can handle 
substantial current.
Hank's suggestion to feel if the wire is getting hot is a reasonable 
way to judge if your extension cord is adequate.
Disclaimer: I'm not a degreed engineer, but I am an 'engineering 
specialist' (glorified technician) who has worked in electronics for 
30+ years (i.e.: not an expert, but qualified to play one on TV).
-- Jeff Bensen
    Palm Bay, FL
At 08:51 AM 1/31/2011, Robert Bedwell wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
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13) From: Robert Bedwell
Couldn't wait.    I made a huge cappuccino this morning and it was delicious.  I probably should have the roast a bit darker but it was fine.
The Eth Maduro was one of my faces from last year.  Should have bought more.
On Jan 31, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Hank Perkins wrote:
<Snip>
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14) From: Robert Bedwell
Thank you Jeff.  I don't have much experience with electricity but what you have stated make logical sense to me.  The next window for roasting is Wednesday and I will see if I can feel any heat from the 12 gauge extension cords.  
I will post my findings.
Thanks again,
Bob
On Jan 31, 2011, at 11:22 AM, Jeff Bensen wrote:
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15) From: Hank Perkins
One thing I have found is I really prefer darker roasts out of the quest over the other roasters I have used. 
Thanks,
Hank 
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 31, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Robert Bedwell  wrote:
<Snip>
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16) From: Robert Bedwell
Frank.....Our ambient temps were close.  This was my second roast but the f=
irst one took around 15 - 20 minutes for it to heat up roast temp of 392F. =
 Also, the drum on my roaster was double insulated.   When you stated it to=
ok several minutes for your to pre heat to 200C  I become concerned about t=
he 15-20 minutes that it took mine to reach this temp.  =
I did record the temps in 30 second increments and the second roast was muc=
h better at 8.5 amps vs 7.5 for the first one.  Never got to second crack. =
 I used the trier and the color and the skin was where I like it.  =
What temperature are you seeing second crack please?  =
I have two thermocouples installed and ready to hook up the Omega to Artisa=
n but I am with you on getting the M3 learning curve behind me before addin=
g anymore variables.  =
Today, they don't waste time with the kisses!!!!
Bob
Ethiopian Organic Shakiso Sidamo Maduro - 200gm     -    Quest M3    -    J=
an 30, 2011   -  Temp 58F
			Fahrenheit
Time		Temperature		=
Minutes		Rate of Rise			Temperature Range
3  -  4			29.2 			253.9  -  283.1
4  -  5			21.6				283.1  -  304.7
5  -  6			18.2				304.7  -  322.9
6  -  7			15.6				322.9  -  338.5
7  -  8			14.4				338.5  -  352.9
8  -  9			12.1				352.9  -  365.0
9  -  10			11.9 			365.0  -  379.6
10-  11			13.9				379.6  -  393.5*
11- 12			11.4				393.5  -  404.9
12- 13			8.0				404.9  -  412.9
13- 14			7.0				412.9  -  419.9
First Crack at 389.6F
Ended Roast at 419.9F
	 Temp at start of roast = 392F
	 Used 8.5 Amp during entire roast =
	 1 minute after beans inserted temp was 225
On Jan 30, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Frank Parth wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
the only thing I noticed was that it took several minutes to pre-heat to 20=
0 C.
<Snip>
<Snip>
r temps and temperature ramps. The goal isto connect the meter to my Mac la=
ptop and plot a graph of the temperature rise in real-time.
<Snip>
<Snip>
"I disagree with Kay Jewelers. I would bet on any given Friday or Saturday =
night more kisses begin with Miller Lite than with Kay."
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
 I started off with the amps at 7.5 and the fan at 4 and once the beans wer=
e dropped in at 392F I didn't realize there was enough power to take it tof=
irst crack fast enough.  The second roast was 14.5 minutes with a power set=
ting of 8.5 and fan speed of 4-5. Much better.  Still a learning curve but =
I definitely learned something today with the Quest compared to the Hottop.=
   I am impressed with it's quietness and the containment of chaff.  The am=
bient temperature was 58F today in the garage.  My Quest has been double in=
sulated but don't know what would have happened if it hadn'tbeen. I am usin=
g around 15 feet of 12 gauge extension cords with a Kill-O-Watt and it does=
n't appear to be affecting the output. =
<Snip>
 voltage stabilizer or booster on M3."  They don't explain why not to.
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
k.
<Snip>
<Snip>
it.
<Snip>
<Snip>
st, much more than the GC I've been using orthe old Zach & Dani's I started=
 with. But along with control comes the need to constantly pay attention to=
 it.
<Snip>
<Snip>
 grab a book for the first 10-15 minutes of the roast like I did on the GC.=
 Well, maybe I could get away with pouring the scotch. But once the roast g=
ets up to 200 degrees C things start to happen much more quickly and you go=
tta pay attention.
<Snip>
<Snip>
f turning the fan up full for 45 seconds once into first crack just to slow=
 down the rise in temperature and it worked out pretty well. I could tightl=
y control the time between first and second crack by varying the heaters an=
d the fan.
<Snip>
<Snip>
gh to cool down the roast (which happens very quickly). I'm wondering if I =
need to shut the heaters off or just turn them down to reduce the time spen=
t waiting before I can dump in the next load of beans.
<Snip>
<Snip>
extension cord. I'm wondering if this exclusion also applies to the Variac =
I've had the GC plugged into. I would think it would prevent some of the vo=
ltagedrop that normally occurs.
<Snip>
<Snip>
nsistency.
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
etmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
fee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
ee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820
Homeroast mailing list
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee=.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820

17) From: Frank Parth
Bob,
Great data points. I'll start measuring mine on the next roast.
I never got to second crack. I was roasting a Yirga Chaffee and Tom's recommendation was City+ to FC, so I stopped it 
short of second crack. I actually like the FC+ to 2nd crack area so I'll probably try that next time.
<Snip>
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