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Topic: identifying green beans (14 msgs / 444 lines)
1) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
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2) From: j3r
I bought some sketchy Hawaii beans, wondering if there is any way to 
verify them. I guess I could buy some from a reputable seller and 
compare but even then they could be from different regions, years, etc.
If I posted a photo would an expert be able to say anything about the bean?
Jeremy
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3) From: Dave
If you post a picture, someone can probably tell you if it's coffee.
Does that help?
Dave
Some days...
It's just not worth chewing through the leather straps
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 3:07 PM, j3r  wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: j3r
On 01/04/2012 08:07 PM, Dave wrote:
<Snip>
hehe I realize it is kind of a dumb question, but I am a newbie and 
thought maybe there was some way.
So, how prevalent is counterfeiting in coffee? Seems to me just about 
any bean could be passed off as something better than it actually is. Is 
expert cupping the only reliable way of telling? Are there genetics or 
lab tests available?
Jeremy
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5) From: Joseph Robertson
I work with beans from many regions but I want to hear what Tom has to say
to this question. I might be able to tell by taste if I roasted them but
the only other sure way I know is DNA.
Joe
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 3:07 PM, j3r  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Joseph Robertson
Sasquatch Coffee Roasters
Craft Coffee Roasting by Design
joe http://www.jolindas.com(360)521-3104     PO Box 451 Stevenson,Washington 98648 USA
"Security is mostly a superstition.
It does not exist in nature,
nor do the children of men
as a whole experience it."
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6) From: Colin Wen
Sorry I dont want to ruin the interesting discussion of this topic.
However, from what I understand the DNA is not almighty.
DNA is just a genetic information of every organism.
Different taxonomy level have different DNA sequence, different
individual have different similarity of DNA sequence too.
However, it does not mean we can tell the individual from another
group in reality.
First, we have to assume the bean from different region have different
DNA sequence.
Because we do want to see the fact that Hawaiian Kona is the same as
PNG one (which is probably the truth).
Before we do the analysis, we still need to build up a database of all
(or most) the bean from all the region.
Then we can indicate where the "mysterious one" from.
Second, the fact we care about where these bean come from is not
really what the DNA they are.
We care about the coffee we drink and which make our cup special is
the microclimate the bean from.
That means you can dig a coffee tree from Hawaii and plan it in PNG,
then these bean from the two tree have exactly the same DNA but the
flavour is far different.
Therefore, what we should do is to find out what the factor make the
flavor different between Hawaii and PNG(or other region).
I will suggest the HPLC (High-performance liquid chromatography) and
protein expression (RNA analysis).
These two method might analyze the real different in chemical complex
of the bean from each region.
But the same, you have to build up the database and know which
chemical or RNA/protein to look at.
I believe the different year/date of harvest of bean will show
different result of HPLC/RNA.
In conclusion, so far even we have the best technology nowadays, I
dont think there is one 100% (or 90%) accuracy way to tell where the
bean from WITHOUT asking the seller.
The bottom line is buying the bean from trustworthy dealer/seller may
be the best way.
ps. I hope I did not ruin this subject (and maybe no one read through
my whole typing)
Colin
On 5 January 2012 13:44, Joseph Robertson  wrote:
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7) From: Robert Yoder
Happy New Year, Roasters! There was a fellow in Northern California who sold a lot of coffee he had re-labeled as Kona.  If I understand correctly, he was charged with a felony, found guilty, and given a prison sentence. Happy Roasting, robert yoder
 > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 20:16:23 -0500
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8) From: Brian Kamnetz
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9) From: j3r
On 01/05/2012 10:27 AM, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
I agree that Sweet Marias is bar none THE place to go. That said, not 
all of us live in the US, and we may come upon sellers in various 
places, such as around town. I never mentioned where I bought them, this 
is not commercial in any way, more I am curious about how even Sweet 
Marias would verify that the lot of JBM (for instance) they purchased 
was not switched along the way for a cheaper bean.
I gather there is no realistic way to know (assuming the same varietals 
and similar look of the beans) other than a lab test. I will assume this 
is the answer, and I apologize if I have broken a rule.
Jeremy
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10) From: Terry McVay \(rr\)
Jeremy you make a very good point and call attention to the kinds of
Inquiry that has made this list so informative.
A few years ago a local coffee company made a lot of money doing just 
That. They were able to include a fair amount of cheaper coffee from
Another region into their regional coffee (Kona) and sell it. Took
In a lot of people..  That is one reason why we stick with SM, Tom
Seems to have the 'buds' to assure that we get just what we hope for 
And that is good quality.  With that, we train our own tastes and become
Very insufferable at social gatherings. :-)
Terry(Kona)
< gather there is no realistic way to know (assuming the same varietals 
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11) From: Mike Davis
I don't even look elsewhere.  I don't buy much coffee because I'm the 
only one in the household who drinks coffee, my wife being genetically 
predisposed not to care for it (my opinion based upon sibling 
behavior).  For years, I paid premium prices for Charbucks beans, 
continually seeking nirvana.  Today, those little 12 oz. bags for $14 
are still being purchased by some of my friends, who, as I did for many 
years, rave when they taste really good coffee, yet can't understand why 
they can't make it like that at home.  I buy my greens from Tom at half 
that (or less).  I've had friends ask me to bring my TechniVorm and 
coffee when we go over for dinner.  SM's expertise, enthusiasm, service, 
quality and selection, along with the detailed background information of 
the coffees have earned sole consideration as my source.  And, no, I 
don't know Tom and Maria, and I was not paid for this message. :-)
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12) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
Send me a picture - there are some coffees that are hard to ID from 
appearance, but Kona is distinct in several ways. By the way, doing 
blends with 10% Kona and 90% other stuff is pretty common, especially 
in grocery-bin type outlets. It seems everyone is pretty aware of it, 
even most consumers (I think). Anyway, if you are buying coffee at a 
place that does Kona Blend, you probably won't care about issues of 
quality and freshness that much. For Kona to be really good coffee, 
it needs a lot of care, and good handling after processing as well. 
If you store coffee in Hawaii after hulling it, it's going to fade 
pretty quickly. Anyway, as we know with all things in coffee, the 
term Kona doesnt mean good, nor does Tarrazu, or Estate, or 
Micro-lot, or anything else really. Back to the point, send the image 
direct to me or to the forum (the list can't take attachments) and I 
will see if I can help.
-- 
-Tom
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13) From: John and Emma
Another plug for SM's. I have never bought green beans from anywhere else. I
have just got a friend into home roasting and told them that there are other
places where you can buy them but I don't know of anyone who is more astute
and particular on choosing the beans they sell.
Tom and Maria I appreciate the time you spend traveling and sampling (good,
bad, terrible and fantastic) coffees so you can ensure we get what we are
paying for and know it has been tested by an expert.
I have never had the pleasure of meeting either of you but have great
respect for both of you.
John H.

14) From: Jim Gundlach
Dave,  You just made my morning much better.  It is great to start a day exercising the smile muscles.
   pecan jim 
On Jan 4, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Dave wrote:
<Snip>
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