HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Espresso vs. Brew (23 msgs / 988 lines)
1) From: John M. Howison
Although I first learned from espresso bars on the Via Veneto that
coffee better than standard swill was possible,  for years I have been
satisfied with the coffee brewed in my kitchen.  My scheme of values
has prevented me from buying a home espresso maker -- which cost as
much as years' supply of beans.
In the years I have been a "lister" -- mostly as a lurker -- I have
noticed that listers who brew exchange views largely with others who
brew, and espress-ers (necessarily, I suppose) with espress-ers.  I
have sometimes wondered whether the silence of these latter means they
regard the exchanges among us "home-brewers" with some contempt.
Would any of you espress-ers try to persuade me to invest big bucks in
a machine?
-- 
Contra muros, mater rubicolla
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2) From: Derek Bradford
Are you asking us to persuade you?  We can be very persuasive--Beware...
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 2:31 PM, John M. Howison wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Edward Bourgeois
+1 We'll put! LOL
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Derek Bradford  wr=
ote:
<Snip>
rote:
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
/a>
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
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a>
<Snip>
-- =
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
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4) From: Barry Luterman
Come over to the dark side. We have Biscotti
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Edward Bourgeois wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Peter
Well as somebody who primarily brews for drip, i do have an espresso  
machine, too.  I do love my rocky, but a lot of days, it just sits there.   
Is it better no, it is very different.  I do like my Bialetti stovetop  
espresso maker. Mine is from the mid 70s and still works like a charm and I  
think is a great combination of both flavors espresso and drip.  My favorite  
espresso drip was the Tono Alto blend from a couple of years ago.  Those  
were some of the tastiest shots I have ever pulled.  But today, i brewed a  
pot of ethiopia guji something and yummy, i even took a cup over to my  
neighbors and he is an espresso afficianado and even he said that is really  
good.  So no, if you dont want to spend the money that is ok, use the  
biscotti with your favorite brew method.
Peter
Sent from my Motorola Smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint!

6) From: Derek Bradford
It's been said before but it's worth repeating: espresso is great, but
there are other ways to make coffee just as well, if not better.  I have a
La Spaziale Vivaldi 2 (S1V2) and a Cimbali Max Hybrid grinder.  They make
great coffee.  I've used them every single day I've been home since I got
them 3 years ago, and I've also had good espresso gear before that--seven
years now, give or take.  But consistently, I've always said that if I
couldn't have espresso I'd be just as happy with my Aeropress.  I use it
often and I really enjoy the cup.
If you've had great espresso and you really like it, and if you're also
enthusiastic about learning a plethora of fiddly techniques, then by all
means, get some gear (grinder first of course--the espresso mantra).  Good
gear is expensive, and there's quite a learning curve, but I've never
regretted it, and after 7 years I still enjoy it every single time.
--Derek
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 2:31 PM, John M. Howison wrote:
<Snip>
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7) From: Joseph Robertson
It's another Coffee World John. Working with espresso machines offers
experiences not possible with any other brew method. Now I have heard some
say that the coffee produced with the fairly recent MyPressi is not bad. I
first tasted shots pulled by the inventor as he demoed at the 2010 SCAA
after hours Event party held at the Los Angeles Intellegencia party. Not an
arm and a leg for this little hand held unit. Fun on camping trips. Don't
get me wrong though, comparing this to a nice duel boiler espresso machine
is not possible. No question if I could have a home duel boiler La Marzocco
I would. The "Dark" side can temp us once our taste buds have been tickled
with nectar from Zeus's coffee forge.
If you don't have a taste for espresso than by all means stay with brewed
coffee. Many brew systems out there to keep any coffee geek busy. I love
both methods.
Joe
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:31 AM, John M. Howison wr=
ote:
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
a>
<Snip>
-- =
Joseph Robertson
Sasquatch Coffee Roasters
Craft Coffee Roasting by Design
joe  
(360)521-3104
PO Box 451
Stevenson,Washington
98648 USA
“Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do t=
he
children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in
the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or
nothing.”
— Helen Keller
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8) From: Dorian Snow
I'm with Derek. I love my Aeropress.  I have also turned a few people on to=
 this little gadget, and they are hooked.  For everyday and multiple cups, =
we brew coffee in a Melitta drip.  But for one cup, I use the Aeropress.  I=
 also have an old piston espresso/capuccino machine that I rarely use.  It =
takes a while to heat it up, and cleaning the parts is time-consuming.  It'=
s fun to use once in a while, but it mostly collects dust.  If I had not in=
herited it, I probably wouldn't spend the bucks to buy it.  Only a really g=
ood espresso machine works properly, and for that you need to spend money f=
or it.  Same goes for a good burr grinder that makes a consistent grind.  I=
f I had to choose between an excellent grinder and an espresso machine, I'd=
 go for the grinder.   For $25-30 bucks, you can get an Aeropress, and it m=
akes really strong coffee that lets every flavor in your bean shine through=
.  Dorian
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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 12:00:01 -0500
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--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: johnmhowison
To: homeroast
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 12:31:25 -0500
Subject: [Homeroast] Espresso vs. Brew
Although I first learned from espresso bars on the Via Veneto that
coffee better than standard swill was possible,  for years I have been
satisfied with the coffee brewed in my kitchen.  My scheme of values
has prevented me from buying a home espresso maker -- which cost as
much as years' supply of beans.
 =
In the years I have been a "lister" -- mostly as a lurker -- I have
noticed that listers who brew exchange views largely with others who
brew, and espress-ers (necessarily, I suppose) with espress-ers.  I
have sometimes wondered whether the silence of these latter means they
regard the exchanges among us "home-brewers" with some contempt.
 =
Would any of you espress-ers try to persuade me to invest big bucks in
a machine?
 =
 =
-- =
Contra muros, mater rubicolla
 =
 =
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: derekbradford
To: homeroast
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 15:01:09 -0300
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Espresso vs. Brew
Are you asking us to persuade you?  We can be very persuasive--Beware...
 =
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 2:31 PM, John M. Howison wro=
te:
 =
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
a>
<Snip>
 =
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: edbourgeois
To: homeroast
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 14:12:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Espresso vs. Brew
+1 We'll put! LOL
 =
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Derek Bradford  wr=
ote:
<Snip>
rote:
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
/a>
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
a>
<Snip>
 =
 =
 =
-- =
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/ =
 =
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: 137trimethyl26dioxopurine
To: homeroast
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 15:36:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Home Roast contest - Columbus, Ohio
So my wife & I went to the event yesterday - sampled about 10 brews
from various local commercial roasters.
 =
Of those we tasted, most were unexciting.    Some were even unpleasant
to taste.    We liked only one sample better than what we had had at
home before driving down town.   (I had roasted Ethiopia Gera Jimma -
Nano Challa - city+ in a very balky Z&D roaster and brewed it in a
Krups Moka Brew.)
 =
It seem to me that most samples were brewed weaker than I would have
done - but what do I know?
 =
Most were doing Melitta style pour over or Chemex, although one stop
was using a vacuum brewer - even had a balance vacuum brewer on
display, but not in action.
 =
The best sample (in our opinion)  was Ethiopia Tchembe from Cafe
Brioso.   Fruit bomb!   I had never heard of that variety.    TOM -
what about that variety???
 =
I think there were 10 or 11 homeroasters in the competition.   I don't
remember who won, or with what bean.
 =
But anyway we had a good time and hung out with 4 or 5 other home
roasters and traded stories and tips.
 =
I hope the North Market does the event again.
 =
Dave
 =
On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Dave Huddle
<137trimethyl26dioxopurine> wrote:
<Snip>
or fun.
<Snip>
 =
 =
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: lutermanb
To: homeroast
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 14:07:53 -0700
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Espresso vs. Brew
Come over to the dark side. We have Biscotti
 =
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Edward Bourgeois wr=
ote:
 =
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
/a>
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
a>
<Snip>
mariascoffee.com
<Snip>
a>
<Snip>
 =
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: peter
To: homeroast
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 17:33:26 -0400
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Espresso vs. Brew
Well as somebody who primarily brews for drip, i do have an espresso  =
machine, too.  I do love my rocky, but a lot of days, it just sits there.   =
Is it better no, it is very different.  I do like my Bialetti stovetop  =
espresso maker. Mine is from the mid 70s and still works like a charm and I=
  =
think is a great combination of both flavors espresso and drip.  My favorit=
e  =
espresso drip was the Tono Alto blend from a couple of years ago.  Those  =
were some of the tastiest shots I have ever pulled.  But today, i brewed a  =
pot of ethiopia guji something and yummy, i even took a cup over to my  =
neighbors and he is an espresso afficianado and even he said that is really=
  =
good.  So no, if you dont want to spend the money that is ok, use the  =
biscotti with your favorite brew method.
 =
Peter
 =
Sent from my Motorola Smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint!
 =

9) From: j3r
On 12-04-02 08:15 PM, Dorian Snow wrote:
<Snip>
I am sure there is flames awaiting, but I think the mypressi is a 
capable espresso machine. You don't have to spend thousands. Some of my 
hand grinders from ebay grind fine enough for a decent espresso. You can 
get the whole kit (mypressi + grinder) on the cheap with an aeropress 
for under $300 I would think.
You WILL want to upgrade after a while, but it may be a long while.
Jeremy
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10) From: Barry Luterman
Upgradeitis that is really where the costs multiply. In the beginning I
bought a steam block machine without a 2 way valve. The thought was just to
see if I liked espresso. A month or so passed and I discovered I really
needed a better grinder. Enter Rocky my cheap grinder in the garbage. Some
more time passes. I really like espresso but it can be made better. After
all only the best coffee is being used why waste it on inferior equipment.
Out goes the steam block (gift to my daughter) and enter Miss Sylvia.
Espresso much better but a bit inconsistent. Upgrade no but add a PID,
crotchless, Thor tamper,thermometer,bunch of frothing pitchers. Much better
now but I require better. Grinder, Grinder sell Rocky and replace it with
Mazer Mini. Espresso getting better but still inconsistent when pulling a
few shots. When company comes over don't want to be in kitchen all night.
Aha double boiler must be the answer. Sell Sylvia at a loss with PID and
buy a Brewtus. Should be done now but nooooooooooooo. Move and have my own
coffee nook. Need a dedicated grinder just for espresso and a double boiler
that does not have to be on all the time and a built in PID. Sell Brewtus
buy a Alex Duetto and Cimbali Max Hybrid. Total coasts more than I made the
first 3 years I worked and probably twice the price of my present equipment.
Moral of the story is don't do it in small steps. Spend time in good local
coffee houses drinking espresso. If you decide you really like it and can
make it better yourself. Bite the bullet and go all the way.
As way of an example. There was a man who had a neighbor. The neighbor had
a dog.Every night for a week he would here the neighbors dog howling in
pain.Finally, he could stand it no longer. He banged on his neighbors door
and told him if he didn't stop torturing his dog he would report him to the
authorities. The neighbor responded that he loved his dog very much and
would never torture it. However, the dogs tail needed cropping and he loved
the dog so much he didn't want to hurt it. So instead of cropping the tail
he cut a little bit of it off each night.
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:26 PM, j3r  wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: JP
I've pretty much abandoned my Aeropress since the Clever Coffee Dripper 
became available, but I've been thinking about the AP often lately.
What ratio and times are people using for the Aeropress?  Is anyone 
using a longer (more normal) brew time than the instructions call for?
On 4/2/12 8:15 PM, Dorian Snow wrote:
<Snip>
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12) From: Dave Matthews
JP,
Thanks for posting that.  I was going to order an Aeropress for our
camper.  I had a small French press but it fell apart.  I prefer not go
carry a glass press in the camper.
My choices are now Clever Coffee Dripper and the Aeropress.
Which do people reccomend?
Dave
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 6:40 PM, JP  wrote:
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13) From: Hank Perkins
I have a Rocket Espresso machine, CCD, and AeroPress.  I don't use the CCD any more. The espresso machine is used all the time.  I travel and the AeroPress is part of my travel kit when i travel for longer than a day or two.
The AeroPress isn't an espresso machine but alone in a hotel room it makes a very nice cup.  The CCD makes a decent cup but is bigger, and no less messy. 
On quick turn trips I will use the in room brewer.  I preheat and use only bottled water. While not great, it is better than nothing. 
In my experience water quality is really important. 
I still haven't found a grinder solution I am happy with. When someone makes a single cup electric burr grinder I will be in line. 
Thanks,
Hank 
On Apr 4, 2012, at 5:40 PM, JP  wrote:
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14) From: Barry Luterman
Not eledtric but I like the Zassenhaus Turkish grinder. It takes up very
little space and  is not too much work to grind enough for a single cup
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Hank Perkins  wrote:
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15) From: Captain CowPie
I agree with the comments on both the Aeropress and Mypressi Twist. The Aeropress makes a fantastic cup, and allows me to experiment when I feel the need. And I think the Mypressi holds itself well against much more expensive espresso makers. I can fine tune my Super Jolly to pull a pretty good cup. I may want to upgrade sometime in the future, but the ease of use and cleanup are pretty compelling right now.
Vince
On Apr 2, 2012, at 9:26 PM, j3r wrote:
<Snip>
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16) From: Sandy Andina
Several vendors sell acrylic presses in sizes ranging from travel mug to 32-oz.  Bodum itself makes all of its most popular presses in acrylic as well as glass.
On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:
<Snip>
Peace & Song, 
Sandy Andina
www.sandyandina.com
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17) From: Frank
To me the AP makes a better tasting cup slightly. But still the ccd makes pretty good cup itself and I can make about 400 grms of drink with it. About grms 300 with the AP.
Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4GLTE
-

18) From: j3r
On 12-04-04 07:13 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:
<Snip>
I have both and I would definitely say go with the aeropress. I think it 
is more robust if you are traveling. Easier cleanup as well with less 
paper waste.
Hint: you can get a reusable metal filter for the aeropress which makes 
it even more awesome. Highly recommended mod! I also use a gold filter 
in my CCD which works fine.
Jeremy
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19) From: Martin Maney
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 07:10:21PM +0000, Frank wrote:
<Snip>
With the superb Bodum filters (1), folded snugly at the edge of the
crimps, the paper filter fits the CCD perfectly and I can add 400g of
hot water to a double dose of grounds.  With very bloomy coffees - and
for this it seems to be as much about the bean & roast, not just
freshness (I'm looking at you, Moka Kadir) - it's a tight fit, with
others 430g or even more fits okay.  This is 40g of grounds, and I make
up the balance of the 640g total water as a partial bypass (so
nominally that's 240g in the carafe before I put the CCD on to drain). 
The drained grounds generally retain about twice their dry weight in
water, so this should be about 560g of delicious coffee.
When brewing this way, I grind one step finer on the Maestro than the
setting that's optimum for my usual "single cup", and stir twice as in
one of Tom's earlier CCD recipes, rather than just swirling the top
gently, once, to stir the crust in.  All of which is to say that the
overdosed extraction seems to benefit from a little more encouragement
than the normal strength brew needs (or can stand - I like it best when
it's very near the edge of what tastes a little too bitter to me).
I'd guess that you could stretch this approach up to around 750ml
before half the water would be bypassing the grounds, which for some
reason I imagine to be as far as you'd want to go.  Must be something I
read, though I have no idea where.  :-)
(1) The Filtropa filters come up rather shorter, and would reduce the
maximum in-cone load.  OTOH, that extra headspace would probably
eliminate the occasional need to wipe some grounds off the lid!
-- 
Truth in advertising is like leaven, which a woman hid in three
measures of meal.  It provides a suitable quantity of gas, with
which to blow out a mass of crude misrepresentations into a form
that the public can swallow.  - Dorothy Sayers, _Murder Must Advertise_
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20) From: g paris p
John:
espresso is not better it i simply another way to produce a drink.
it really all boils down to your taste, period.
I drink nothing but espresso because I do not like thin brew and to me,
only to me, 99% of all brewed coffee is thin.
as waste to drink.
every bean I roast is used as a SO espresso either from my La Valentina or
my Solis 5K. Most are it's some not great
but still better...
personal taste.
ginny
I do use an Areo Press when driving away from home.
On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Martin Maney  wrote:
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21) From: Bob Hazen
John,
I love >coffee< and it doesn't matter whether it's brewed or espresso.  I 
drink far more drip and Chemex because, well, I'm lazy.  I have an ancient 
Gaggia that sits unused mostly - just because of the folderol associated 
with espresso.  I confess (heresy!) to finding roasting a chore now and 
then.  All it takes is a taste of Foulgers or whole bean coffee from the 
local Rotten Apple market to reset my head.  As is our friend miKe, I'm a 
"slave to the bean."  Gonna have to dust of that Gaggia, methinks...
Bob

22) From: Doug Hoople
Hi John,
I was warned, when I started here a couple of years ago, that I'd
inevitably cross over to the dark side
I haven't, and most probably won't.
It's owing to living in places with tiny kitchens. We lived on a boat in
Sausalito for the better part of a decade, and love living in compact
spaces with low demands for maintenance time.
So no giant machine for grinding.  And no dedicated counter for an espresso
machine plus paraphernalia.
Most of all, I don't have the vast amounts of time required to explore the
endless byways of espresso making. I hate the thought of getting only
halfway there and not being able to produce a satisfying shot on most
attempts.
I've found that there are plenty of byways to explore even in the simple
act of brewing with a vacuum pot, and in trying to discern the perfect
roast, the perfect grind, the perfect origin, the perfect dose for that
method.  After just over 3 years of that modest quest, I think I'm just
beginning to understand some of the dynamics of it.
In contemplating the pursuit of espresso, the mind simply boggles at the
explosion of variables.
Besides, I've only occasionally loved a shot of espresso, and quite a bit
more often am left disappointed.
But I really love a good cup of brewed coffee.
Each to his own, no?
Enjoy the journey!!
Doug
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Bob Hazen  wrote:
<Snip>
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23) From: Lynne
Precisely why I don't drink espresso (and, the fact that I can't afford a
machine, of course!)
I've moved quite a bit, and am looking forward to moving again, but this
time my son is planning to build. Been toying with the idea of living on a
boat, but all of it is so new to me, I don't know... I do love the idea of
being able to take off & go to so many places, though.
Tiny houses really interest me. With each place I've moved, I've been able
to downsize quite a bit - moving is hard, and I like to think of my life in
a simplified way - so I like to downsize the kitchen stuff, too (that's
just about the only possessions I hold onto - much to the chagrin of one of
my kids - she just can't understand why I want to let go of so many things
- it brings me more freedom).
Right now I'm finding a Vietnamese coffee maker (called a coffee filter -
it's very tiny!) is making the best coffee for me. I can get a good, rich
cup, which I love - it only cost me $4 at my local Chinese grocery store
(they have lots of them online, too). Takes awhile, but it's worth the
time, IMO. My moka pot used to be my favorite, but after getting the
Vietnamese one, I never went back to it. I don't get bitter brews anymore,
unless my roasting is way off.
I'd love to hear more about your boat-living (although I know it's going
very off-topic for the list).
Lynne
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Doug Hoople  wrote:
<Snip>
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