HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Okay, let me start over on this one ... (20 msgs / 561 lines)
1) From: Diyer999
QUESTION: Can green coffee be ground and then roasted?  
I assumed that at least some of you would assume I meant a grinder (as in a 
non-dedicated coffee type of) that could handle this type of grinding without 
clogging, say a Braun KSM-22 (those small ones that grind all kinds of moist 
seeds as well).  
I also assumed that at least some of you would not assume I meant putting the 
grounds in a fluid bed type of coffee roaster.  I thought that at least some 
of you would have the common sense to realize I must mean using an oven or 
stovetop.  C'mon, how else could one do it.  You don't have to answer that.  
Oh well, so much for common sense.  Being a novice coffee roaster, I was 
trying to understand a principle here about roasting.  Guess you are all so 
locked into roasting your individual one way of roasting that you missed the 
point, atomically speaking ...  isn't a ground bean just a smaller piece of 
the larger one?  
diyer

2) From: Henry C. Davis
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
The ground beans have no structure, except as small particles, so the
resulting particles  would absorb and hold heat differently than beans
either separated widely or clumped together in a large mass, thus the effect
of heat on the material would likely be radically different from whole beans
and would depend upon how you arranged the resulting ground coffee. In short
there would be dozens of variables to test before one could do more than
hazard a guess. If you were not asking what would happen if we changed the
order of roasting and grinding, more information was necessary to understand
your question. In other words, you assumed too much for anyone to accurately
understand your question.
When you do not specify differently, posing a question like that only
changes one variable for the examinee - switching the order of grinding and
roasting - all other things remain the same. Common sense is usually the
argument of people who have no evidence, logic or data. What most people
refer to as common sense is no such thing, it is instead a bunch of
unfounded assumptions which may or may not correlate with what produced a
particular result. It is my experience, as well, that most of the time the
term common sense is used, the sense (belief or conclusion) is shared only
by the speaker and usually after an event that person claims common sense
should have avoided.

3) From: Paul Goelz
At 10:12 AM 4/19/02 EDT, you wrote: 
<Snip>
QUESTION: Can green coffee be ground and then roasted?  
I assumed that at least some of you would assume I meant a grinder (as in a
non-dedicated coffee type of) that could handle this type of grinding
without clogging, say a Braun KSM-22 (those small ones that grind all kinds
of moist seeds as well).  
I also assumed that at least some of you would not assume I meant putting
the grounds in a fluid bed type of coffee roaster.  I thought that at least
some of you would have the common sense to realize I must mean using an
oven or stovetop.  C'mon, how else could one do it.  You don't have to
answer that.  Oh well, so much for common sense.  Being a novice coffee
roaster, I was trying to understand a principle here about roasting.  Guess
you are all so locked into roasting your individual one way of roasting
that you missed the point, atomically speaking ...  isn't a ground bean
just a smaller piece of the larger one?  
<<<<
Since I'd bet that no one has tried it, I'd grind up a bit and try it.  Who
knows....
<Snip>
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
Pgoelz
Videoastronomy, model helicopter and music (UnFest) web site:http://www.eaglequest.com/~pgoelzVectron Blackhawk discussion list:  vectronblackhawk
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

4) From: Bob Trancho
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Gee Diyer, common sense would have dictated not making all those
assumptions to begin with!
 
That said, I would guess that beans smashed into small pieces by a
whirly grinder and placed in a stovetop pan or the oven would roast
extremely fast, significantly effecting the flavor of the resulting
brew.  If it didn't char up too quickly, it would be very bright, with
little body.  
 
I'd also guess that it would be tricky to get an even roast because of
the very short amount of time involved.  You have to agitate/stir like
crazy to keep it anywhere near even.
 
I think that once the bean has been ground, the pieces won't react the
same as a whole bean - less buildup of pressure as moisture turns to
steam, no audible cracking, etc.  I'd say that the mass of the bean has
a definite effect on the roast characteristic.
 
Why not give it and try and let us know how it turns out?
 
Bob Trancho

5) From: The Scarlet Wombat
Diyer, why not try it and report to us on how it went.
Dan
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

6) From: Timothy A Reed
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:12:36 EDT Diyer999 writes:
<Snip>
You've just hit upon a great way to make friends....
-Tim
In your heart you wonder which of these is true
The road that leads to nowhere
The road that leads to you
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

7) From: Kathleen Tinkel
It might be possible to roast ground coffee -- conceptually. But it's 
hard to see how you'd control the roasting profile that way, as the 
small bits of coffee bean would tend to darken very quickly without 
much opportunity to develop flavor.
When it comes to cooking (and coffee roasting is a sort of cooking), 
size matters. The flavors developed by sauteing an intact clove of 
garlic, a smashed clove, and minced garlic all differ. I suspect the 
same would hold true for coffee beans.
If you decide to try it, the main challenge (IMHO) will be to retard 
the heat so as to allow the flavors to develop so you don't end up 
with a tepid brown vegetable. You could try the technique commonly 
used to roast Sichuan peppercorns or similar spices -- toss the 
ground coffee in a hot, well-seasoned steel skillet. This would let 
you control the heat and thus the speed of the roast.
Then I suspect that staling would begin at once, so you should 
probably brew and drink as soon as you finish roasting.
Can you explain why you want to do this? Coffee roasting has been 
going on for centuries. There must have been experiments with 
technique, but the consensus today is to roast whole beans. It's not 
that the members of this list are a bunch of unimaginative or lazy 
coffee roasters...  or, if they are, this isn't evidence of it! 
Do hope you'll report back, tell us what you discover.
Kathleen
<Snip>
--
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

8) From: Mike McGinness
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
<Snip>
I wasn't going to get into this thread but changed my mind after you =
started it again.
ANSWER: Green coffee "can" be ground and then roasted. With what =
resulting quality is the first question.
My 2nd Question: Why? What would be the purpose or goal? I learned a =
couple decades ago that grinding roasted whole bean coffee goes stale in =
hours, or even minutes. Some say ground coffee is "fresh" for as short =
as 15 minutes, I don't disagree.
There would also be the issue of removing the chaff or silver skin from =
all the green beans before grinding before roasting. "Peel" them one by =
one?
If pre-ground then roasted, then would be locked into that grind =
limiting brewing options.
<Snip>
in a non->dedicated coffee type of) that could handle this type of =
grinding without clogging, say >a Braun KSM-22 (those small ones that =
grind all kinds of moist seeds as well).  
I was taught many moons ago never to "assume". Most know what the first =
three letters of "assume" spell...
<Snip>
putting the >grounds in a fluid bed type of coffee roaster.  I thought =
that at least some of you >would have the common sense to realize I must =
mean using an oven or stovetop.  
<Snip>
well, so much 
I actually thought about trying grinding some greens with my whirlyblade =
spice grinder and microwaving it. Just for kicks. Thought better of it, =
back to what's the point. I still may just for entertainment value.
Applying common sense I realized that if grinding before roasting was =
economically sound with any quality at all the "big boys" would be doing =
it. Further, if it produced a better cup the "little boys" would be =
doing it even if it cost more!
<Snip>
understand a >principle here about roasting.  Guess you are all so =
locked into roasting your individual >one way of roasting that you =
missed the point, atomically speaking ...  isn't a ground >bean just a =
smaller piece of the larger one?  
If you mean "locked into" roasting whole green coffee beans then yes. I =
don't roast coffee cherries, I don't roast coffee parchment, I don't =
roast coffee tree limbs, I don't roast coffee leaves, I don't roast =
coffee roots, I only roast properly processed coffee beans. The "how" of =
roasting green coffee beans does vary greatly. 
MM;-)
Home Roasting in Vancouver, WA USA

9) From: John - In Deep Southern Texas
Paul,
    Common sense!  Come now Paul, you're talking to people who pay $22 a
pound for greens from Hawaii - and some who've gone way over the edge and
tried Kopi Luwak.   We sacrifice our kitchen counter space to accommodate a
grinder, or two, a drip pot, a badly overpriced espresso machine, a couple
of French Press pots, a pile of jars with beans, and a clip board with a lot
of scratch marks on it.  We don't have common sense and its obvious.
Good Cupping
John

10) From: Coffenut
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Mike,
 
ROFL.your last comment really sums up how I feel about this rather
illogical thread.  I have unknowingly roasted other foreign matter such
as small rocks, twigs and other surprises that occasionally come in my
bag of beans.
 
Coffenut  :^) 
 
If you mean "locked into" roasting whole green coffee beans then yes. I
don't roast coffee cherries, I don't roast coffee parchment, I don't
roast coffee tree limbs, I don't roast coffee leaves, I don't roast
coffee roots, I only roast properly processed coffee beans. The "how" of
roasting green coffee beans does vary greatly. 
 
MM;-)
Home Roasting in Vancouver, WA USA

11) From: Al Raden
Diyer999 wrote:
<Snip>
Worst assumption - you're assuming that we would assume that you have 
common sense. :-P
You're right, we're all locked into our routine.  So, try it and let us 
know how it turns out.
- al r.

12) From: Gary White
Wow...I hope this guy is wearing an asbestos suit!
 > I thought that at least some of you would have the common sense to
realize I must mean using an oven or stovetop.  C'mon, how else could one do
it.  You don't  have to answer that.  Oh well, so much for common sense.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

13) From: Diyer999
Okay, that's what I'm going to do.  I will try grinding up a high moisture 
bean and then roasting the grounds at a lower temp.   Btw, Mike Mcginnis, why 
you ask?  Why not?  I never read anything mentioning the subject so I got 
curious.  I bet you never swam upstream in your life, huh?  Always kinda went 
with the flow - go along to get along.  
BTW part 2, about assumptions - perhaps I should not have assumed you would 
have some common sense - perhaps that shows lack of common sense, that others 
will have common sense, one would assume, but on the other hand this is a 
roasting site and one could easily assume that there is a frame of reference 
among established roasters, enough so, to ask such a common question.  Oy 
Voy.
Diyer

14) From:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
<Snip>
know how it turns out.
<Snip>
Gotta admit that I'm as guilty of this as are my students, to whom I'm =
always saying, "Open your eyes! Think differently!" 
Actually, getting into roasting at all is -- to use a hackneyed =
expression -- thinking outside the box. Or rather, outside the can of =
Maxwell House. Today, I'm playing with a can of Illy, trying to get used =
to my La Pavoni lever machine, which is great fun. Even the majority of =
the alt.coffee guys think lever machines are over the edge! Tonight, I'm =
going to play with a bag of store beans in my new Gaggia MDF grinder. If =
I had any common sense at all, I wouldn't have bought any of those toys =
.... 
But back to the point ... throw those green grounds in the wok or =
whatever and let us know how it tastes!
Michael G., roasting up his first batch of Monkey Brains ... er, Monkey =
Blend

15) From: Henry C. Davis
This post appears to prove the validity of my evaluation of "common sense"
in the second paragraph of my previous post on the subject.

16) From: Bob Trancho
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Diyer-
 
You continue to miss the point...
 
Eight people responded to your post with good intentions and your answer
to them is that they lack common sense and that they all missed your
point.  No admission on your part that your post might not have been
specific enough or that different people might have differing
perspectives on your question.
 
What some of us have reacted to is not the validity of the idea of
pregrinding beans, but your put-down of those who tried to respond
helpfully and your arrogance at continuing to assert that your version
of "common sense" is superior to theirs.
 
Bob Trancho

17) From: Ed Needham
I very highly recommend NOT using a burr grinder.  Use a whirly blade or
something similar to grind the green beans.  You will have at least a mess,
and at most a broken grinder if you grind green beans.  They are VERY hard
and do not grind.  Someone on alt.coffee tried this a few months ago and
found out the hard way that it doesn't work in a burr grinder.
Regards,
Ed Needham
ed

18) From: Mike McGinness
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
<Snip>
moisture bean and then >roasting the grounds at a lower temp.   Btw, =
Mike Mcginnis, why you ask?  Why >not?  I never read anything mentioning =
the subject so I got curious.  I bet you never >swam upstream in your =
life, huh?  Always kinda went with the flow - go along to get >along.  
In the name of experimentation and fun absolutely why not, which I =
stated in my first reply.
Since YOU chose to make it personal I'll conclude you are obviously very =
new to the list and or a complete idiot - stating I "always kinda went =
with the flow - go along to get along." If you've followed many threads =
on this list you'd know, if you have the ability to draw logical =
conclusions, I often disagree with the list majority.
Example One: A year or so ago a thread about "Is JBM Worth it" was =
started by me. The vast majority felt no, I staunchly defended JBM.
Example Two: I'm one of the few who advocate vacuum sealing both coffee =
greens and roasted coffee beans for storage.
Example Three: I have 11 (eleven) different Kona greens, none of them =
from Sweet Marias, all direct from the growers. Buying from other than =
Sweet Marias is totally against "the flow" of this list. I also have 3 =
Jamaica Blue Mountain greens, only one from SM. 
Example Four: I purchased a pound of Kopi Luwak greens last year.
MM;-)
Home Roasting in Vancouver, WA USA

19) From: Ed Needham
....and I respected you, right up to the Kopi Lewak acquisition. 
Regards,
Ed Needham
ed
(As an aside...anyone who has been in newsgroups or any public forum for any
length of time has learned to totally ignore offensive posts and, if worse
comes to worse, put the offender in a 'kill' filter to ignore them.  Getting
into flame wars is no different than 'road rage' and almost always ends in
much more heat than light, and is absolutely no fun for anyone.  Take a deep
breath at an offensive post and hit delete.)
Regards,
Ed Needham
ed

20) From: Brian Ray
Example Four: I purchased a pound of Kopi Luwak greens last year.
MM - this example may contradict diyer's suggestion that you always "go with 
the flow", but may I suggest (being guilty myself) that buying beans at 
somewhere around $300 per lb whose sole virtue is that they were recovered 
from a pile of civet scat might support his assertion that there is a 
certain lack of common sense among members of this list? (example 1: 
purchasing chocolates along with my coffee from an island in the middle of 
nowhere that must be shipped by boat :-)
brian
in constant search of a "different" cup
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://mobile.msn.comhomeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast


HomeRoast Digest