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Topic: Agtron tiles (16 msgs / 396 lines)
1) From: Angelo
A while back, when we had this discussion before, someone suggested that 
maybe someone on the list, who actually bought the tiles, could take them 
into a paint store and match the tiles with the color swatches from a 
nationally known paint brand such as Benjamin Moore, etc. , and "publish" 
the swatch numbers for the rest of us cheapoids...:-) We could then just go 
to our local paint store and get the swatches.
Might I suggest that whoever does this bring along someone who has a god 
"eye" for color. It will never be exact, but it would probably be a lot 
closer than the book...
Any takers?
Ciao,
Angelo
<Snip>
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2) From: Dan Bollinger
Angelo,  Actually, I've been planning on doing that for some time.  I'm an
Industrial Designer, so color matching is something I've been trained to do.
This recent talk of color tiles has gotten be thinking about it again. I'm
going to contact the SCAA and see if they'll let me borrow a set.  I'll use
Sherwin-Williams color chips for two reasons.  First, they have more colors
in their system, second, they don't change their colors from year to year
like others do that follow the fashion/decorating markets.  more later, Dan

3) From: Dan Bollinger
Thanks, but I'd like to do all eight.  I'm going to ask my local
micro-roaster if he has a set.  I think the SCAA will cooperate.  Dan

4) From:
Dan, I'd be willing to send you the ones I have.

5) From: Joseph A. Feliciani
Hi all,
A month or so ago, a similar discussion was on a.c. on figuring out a cheap
way to simulate the Agtron tiles. I posted what follows, but no one
responded.  I'll try here.
A different thought has been rolling around in the back of my mind though.
Instead of using color tiles from H.D.(or in this case, Sherwin-Williams,)
what if we use actual roasted beans? I'm sure that, let's say, *$ "House
Blend" is roasted to the same color/level every time.  If someone compared
it to their tiles and said it matched a certain number, then the rest of us
could buy some and then we
would know that one tile.  We could find other pre-roasted beans that match
the other tiles, and we could run out and buy those (Lavazza, Illy, etc.)
How does that sound?
My other thought would be for us to pick a roaster (Tom?) to roast to each
of the grades (say 8 grades from cinnamon to French) and then sell an eighth
of a
pound of each grade to all who agreed to do it.  The Tom would know
ahead of time how much to roast, by everyone who was interested to sign up
and agree to buy 1 lb.  We would then get 1lb of beans roasted to the 8
different grades in 8 ziploc bags?
I guess my only question would be, how long would roasted beans hold their
roast color?  I assume that after a few days of outgassing, keeping them
sealed in a ziploc would maintain their color longer?
Has anyone tried, or thought of  this before?
Joe
WBPII - Bodum Antigua - *$ Proteo Barista - (espresso only)
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6) From: Charlie Herlihy
June 30 Joseph Feliciani wrote:>My other thought would be for us to pick a roaster (Tom?) to roast to 
each
of the grades (say 8 grades from cinnamon to French) and then sell an 
eighth
of a
pound of each grade to all who agreed to do it.  The Tom would know
ahead of time how much to roast, by everyone who was interested to sign 
up
and agree to buy 1 lb.  We would then get 1lb of beans roasted to the 8
different grades in 8 ziploc bags?  (>Snipped at both ends)
 That's an interesting enough idea, at least to talk about. Not owning any of the classic coffee books (yet) I wonder if the standard bean/roast colors are for just for the exterior of the bean?  As Mike has correctly pointed out the grind color is a truer indication of roast. or as Mr. Diedrich told our seminar group, breaking a bean in half and looking at the interior cell structure color.
Charlie
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7) From: Irene and Lubos Palounek
Dan wrote:
" ...color matching is something I've been trained to do."
Dan,
I have not been trained in color matching, but I know that colors that look
the same under one light source look quite different under another light
source. I have been using the Macbeth Color chart when making (photographic)
prints and know the importance of the "correct" light.
Even though Kodak has a color card, Macbeth has been able to provide
professional photography with an international standard reference card, both
for colors and for gray scale.
Would it make sense for someone who has access to the Agtron tiles to make a
picture of them with the Macbeth chart, illuminated by the Ott-lite?  As the
Macbeth chart and Ott-lite are widely available, anybody should be able to
print that picture and use the Macbeth chart and the Ott-lite to assure that
the colors are accurate.
You can probably borrow the Macbeth Color Chart from any professional
photographer or buy it for about $65, for example from www.bhphotovideo.com
As I said, I have not been trained in color matching ... so perhaps this is
not the best idea. What do you say, Dan?
Athttp://www.ent.orst.edu/urban/MacBeth.htmland many other places, you can
see a reproduction of the Macbeth Color Chart.
Athttp://www.digital-photography.org/mcbeth_color_checking/Macbeth_ColorChecker_Gray.html is a review of the chart.
Seehttp://www.gretagmacbeth.com/Source/Gm.aspfor information on color
charts etc. Macbeth has gone through several corporate changes; Macbeth is
now allied with a prominent Swiss company, Gretag. The new combined company
is GretagMacbeth (no space between the words).
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8) From: Jack Berry
What about the paint matching service offered at nearly every paint
department and paint store? Wouldn't that work?
Take those guys a one inch square of fabric, paint, or any thing and they'll
put it under their anaylzer and produce the paint. I would suggest a glossy
paint used on a non porous surface for the best reflective match in the
final product. I'd be glad to chip in on the experiment if anyone ever
decides to give it a shot.

9) From: Spencer W. Thomas
Irene and Lubos Palounek wrote:
<Snip>
:-)
Let's see.  I can buy a Macbeth color chart for $65, and an "Ott light" 
for who knows how much, and then I have to do a bunch of work to make it 
look right on my printer, and THEN I can maybe print out Agtron tile 
replicas.  Or, I can spend $60 to order 4 tiles at $14 each from SCAA.  Hmm.
Seems a no-brainer to me. :-)
=S
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10) From: Irene and Lubos Palounek
Spencer wrote about the color tiles. :
"Let's see.  I can buy a Macbeth color chart for $65, and an "Ott light" for
who knows how much, and then I have to do a bunch of work to make it look
right on my printer, and THEN I can maybe print out Agtron tile replicas.
Or, I can spend $60 to order 4 tiles at $14 each from SCAA.  Hmm.
Seems a no-brainer to me. :-)"
You are right, Spencer, that's what I will probably do.  Although we already
have the Macbeth charts for photography and the "Ott-lite" which is used in
many ways in our home ... for embroidery, photo printing, coffee roasting
etc.
I am very happy with the Ott-lite when I roast after sunset...
Lubos
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11) From: Dan Bollinger
I've done this, sorta.  I opened the cover on my HWP during a roast and let
a few beans pop out everytime I thought I saw an incremental increase in
color.  It was set at maximum roast.  I ended up with about 10-11 colors.  I
also kept track of where in the cycle they were, i.e. "just beginning 2nd
crack".  I compared this to Tom's roast descriptions online.  Also, compared
to make sure they had a oily surface or oil drops.  Eventually, I whittled
them down to 8.  Cinnamon to Italian.  I feel pretty confident that I have
them very close. You only need a few beans for each color. You could glue
them onto a board and hang on the wall.  It was a good, educational
exercise.  Dan
<Snip>
cheap
<Snip>
us
<Snip>
match
<Snip>
eighth
<Snip>
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12) From: Dan Bollinger
I've done this, sorta.  I opened the cover on my HWP during a roast and let
a few beans pop out everytime I thought I saw an incremental increase in
color.  It was set at maximum roast.  I ended up with about 10-11 colors.  I
also kept track of where in the cycle they were, i.e. "just beginning 2nd
crack".  I compared this to Tom's roast descriptions online.  Also, compared
to make sure they had a oily surface or oil drops.  Eventually, I whittled
them down to 8.  Cinnamon to Italian.  I feel pretty confident that I have
them very close. You only need a few beans for each color. You could glue
them onto a board and hang on the wall.  It was a good, educational
exercise.  Dan
<Snip>
cheap
<Snip>
us
<Snip>
match
<Snip>
eighth
<Snip>
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13) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
look
<Snip>
It's called metamerism.  I'd compare under sunlight.
<Snip>
But wouldn't you also have to make sure the colors didn't shift while making
the prints?  Plus, color prints fade with age. Then there is the cost of
processing film and mailing sets to people and collecting money....   Color
chips are free.
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14) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
look
<Snip>
It's called metamerism.  I'd compare under sunlight.
<Snip>
But wouldn't you also have to make sure the colors didn't shift while making
the prints?  Plus, color prints fade with age. Then there is the cost of
processing film and mailing sets to people and collecting money....   Color
chips are free.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

15) From: Dan Bollinger
Jack, that would work, but not for me.  First, I don't want to put the SCAA
out of business.  ;)  Second, I have no desire to paint little squares and
mail them to people.  I'm trying to simplify my life and make delicious
coffee!  Now If you'd like to do that, by all means go ahead.  Dan

16) From: Dan Bollinger
Jack, that would work, but not for me.  First, I don't want to put the SCAA
out of business.  ;)  Second, I have no desire to paint little squares and
mail them to people.  I'm trying to simplify my life and make delicious
coffee!  Now If you'd like to do that, by all means go ahead.  Dan


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