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Topic: A little Cafferosto help needed (16 msgs / 664 lines)
1) From: John - Deep Southern Texas
I've been shipped a Cafferosto to do a comparitive roast between the FR, FR+
and the new HotTop roaster.  The unit arrived, I used the metal cup that was
included as the measure and it seemed to do just fine.  However - since no
manual came with this thing, and since I'm going to do some objective
comparisons - what are the recommended loads, and I guess the cracks are
still the signals for timing.  
In the first load I did I noticed the beans weren't really moving much. Then
I remembered Mike's rocking Rosto technique and rocked the unit side to side
and front to back.  But when the roast entered first crack the bean motion
was smooth and steady so I stopped rocking and let it roast.  The second
batch I did nothing and the beans didn't either - so I chickened out and
rocked it a bit and they began and continued moving.   I believe this is a
function of load size and wonder what others are using/doing.
So - how much for how long?
John
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2) From: John - Deep Southern Texas
Deward,
    Thanks - that's the information I was looking for exactly.  OK I have=
 a
starting point and will extrapolate a curve of my own from it and my firs=
t
roasts. Its particularly meaningful that you've run a range of roasters. =
 I
have some Harrar that's going in next for dark roast.
John - no longer able to drink it up as fast as I roast it up.
--

3) From: John - Deep Southern Texas
Wow Lee,
    Your FR+ has a problem.  I run 90 gram loads in my FR+ all the time w=
ith
no problem.  However, I do know that a small tilt will result in a great
bean movement on it - almost too great. 
John
--

4) From: John - Deep Southern Texas
Thanks Holly - you bet its helpful.  I'm trying to build some data quickl=
y. 
I think I'll take your suggestion of using my stopwatch to do the timing.=
  I
will try to chart all my tests with the times for 1st crack and finish ti=
mes
  Tomorrow is going to be a fun day!!
John
--

5) From: John - Deep Southern Texas
Oh MAN!!  Who ever first said "Oh the inane perversity of inanimate objec=
ts"
must have had roasters in mind.
I was the one struggling in thermal dynamics class - but, if something in
the vents is restricting the airflow the temp should rise rapidly. So the
inverse of that may also hold a secret, slow rise may mean its sucking to=
o
much air  if you've burned a hole - but ....     It might prove interesti=
ng
to do an end to end resistance measurement of both the heating units to s=
ee
if you may have burned away part of the surface.
Hey, I'm sitting on a gold mine of roasters here - I have a Rosto that se=
ems
to really hustle and its available CHEAP!  Drop me a note off list.
--

6) From: John - Deep Southern Texas
Thanks Bob, how did you come up with 151 grams, is that the scoop size?
I've already learned the hard way not to grab the vent area - OUCH!  But =
it
makes such a ready handle :O)
--

7) From: John - Deep Southern Texas
Lubos,
    Thanks for the data - I'm successfully roasting inside with the unit
sitting in front of the exhaust fan behind the stove. So I'm always going=
 to
be roasting at an ambient of 75 degrees.  BUT... I have roasted outside w=
ith
the FR and FR+ so maybe this guy will get his chance tonight.
    My tracking number shows my unit arriving on Tuesday - now I know tha=
t
the truck has to come through you to get to me - so I just know you get
yours Monday night or Tuesday morning.  
    
    I got a note from Kyra today (early) saying she has put me on the e-m=
ail
distribution.  So now I'm a full fledged club member :O)
John - committing today to the Caffe Rosto
--

8) From: John - Deep Southern Texas
Yeah you tell him Tonya!  It dropped into the 50's twice last year!  Thos=
e
two weeks in January just serve to remind me of why I moved here.  We are=
 so
much closer to the Gulf and its warm breezes that we didn't experience th=
e
fluke weather you had last January - when you were freezing we were sitti=
ng
at 52 degrees.  We haven't recorded a hard freeze here in so long that fo=
lks
almost want one.  I was stunned to find out that many of the homes here a=
nd
just across the river in Mexico don't even HAVE heaters!   We have one, b=
ut
the gas has been turn off for about 8 years.  When it gets cool we have a
Cube that does the job.
To keep it on topic just a tad.  The constant heat here is one of the
reasons I don't store my beans in our work/storage shed. Its air conditio=
ner
doesn't run except when I'm out there. I figure I would begin a pretty fa=
ir 
slow roast" if I kept them out there.  Today it will be 104 here - and we=
'll
just lay around the pool and enjoy it after I finish with my Caffe Rosto
test roasts.
John
--

9) From: dewardh
John:
<Snip>
In the beginning they don't move much, but in my experience it doesn't much 
matter.  They move some, and that some seems to be enough.  I don't "rock the 
Rosto" at all . . . works fine for me without.  The beans don't move like they 
do in a popper or a "fountain" machine, but the heat is better distributed, so 
everything evens out . . . (and the cooling cycle is quite fast . . . by 
roast's end the beans are whirling around plenty fast).
<Snip>
I do 150 gram batches, which is about the scoop level full.  How long is very 
voltage (and bean) dependent . . . most of my roasts are into 2nd crack around 
10-12 minutes at 115 V.  There is some variation between machines, too . . . 
you'll just have to experiment .  My Rosto gives a slightly more even roast, 
and possibly fuller body, than my HWP (75 gram batch, 8 minute roast typical) . 
.. . but I can't fairly compare to the Alp I had . . . it was more a toaster 
than a roaster, and was returned.  The Alp roasts that I managed to salvage 
were less even than either of the air machines and Harar and Yemen beans always 
had some charred from sticking in the drum.  That would never have worked here 
.. . . we seldom if ever do a blend without at least some Ethiopian or Yemeni 
beans.
Deward
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10) From: Lee XOC
< [mailto:homeroast-admin]On Behalf Of John - Deep
< Southern Texas
<
< I remembered Mike's rocking Rosto technique and rocked the unit
< side to side
< and front to back.  But when the roast entered first crack the bean motion
< was smooth and steady so I stopped rocking and let it roast.  The second
< batch I did nothing and the beans didn't either - so I chickened out and
< rocked it a bit and they began and continued moving.   I believe this is a
< function of load size and wonder what others are using/doing.
< So - how much for how long?
Interesting.  I've taken to adopting the method of de-verticalizing my FR+
by placing a wooden ruler under one side of it while roasting.  Otherwise,
in its ailing condition, the air isn't powerful enough to get the green
beans moving at all.  After a while (1st crack or a little earlier) they
agitate okay without need of the ruler.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Lee xoC
San Diego,
California
------------------------------
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11) From: hlhurd
I roast 112 g batches, beans move fine at this weight.  First crack is
typically 4.5 to 5 minutes, has been as long as 6 min.  I use a separate
digital timer as my Rosto's timer is off by 30+- seconds.  I recently
started using a Hearthware Gourmet; it moves the beans more than the Rosto.
Hope this is helpful.
Holly
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12) From: Mike McGinness
John,
Sounds like you already got your Caffe' Rosto questions answered. As always,
I do 1/3# - 151gr weighed batches. I originally bought the Rosto planning it
that way and have 'made it work', for me. Until recently... you aren't the
only one needing Caffe' Rosto help!
I may have killed, or at least severely injured, my Rosto. Last Saturday
before we left for the day I roasted a quick batch. Using my variac, dmm,
thermometer etc. Roasting a bean I knew well. Used profiling been using 3 or
4 weeks. Times were way off, way too long. Started attempting to compensate
running the voltage up to 125v towards the end. Thought maybe I hadn't
compensated for 66f ambient maybe. But didn't think that was really the
problem...
Next day, Sunday, amb 84f had the same problem 3 other beans. Ran an empty
run for temp, 120v 404f at 84f ambient (two different weber thermometers AND
Fluke 16 thermocouple, all within 5degrees.) When I started playing with the
variac and thermometer a month ago 120v ambient 70f no beans gave me 440f!!!
Fan speed sounded good, figured heater dying. Over 35 degrees cooler
running...
So last Sunday night I ordered another Rosto. Arrived yesterday 7/25. Ran no
bean tests for it's temp. Ambient 80f 120v 425f chamber temp. Ran the same
on the old Rosto 388f! Down even further than 7/21 tests.
Just now roasted a batch of a bean I know well in the new Rosto, fixed 120v,
ambient 79f.  Roasted to 435f 12:43. Same bean in the old pre-dying Rosto at
fixed 110v, ambient 70f, 435f in 9:24! So the new Rosto is hotter than the
old Rosto is now but way cooler than the old Rosto was, was for 8 months...
(was replaced in November '01 for unset of fan screech....then at 9months.)
Guess I'll be returned the new Rosto and try for a hotter one... Then in
September may be re-thinking the HotTop...
MM;-)
Home Ju-Ju Variable Variac Rockin' Rosto Roasting in Vancouver, WA USA
From: "John - Deep Southern Texas" 
<Snip>
FR+
<Snip>
was
<Snip>
Then
<Snip>
side
<Snip>
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13) From: Bob Trancho
<Snip>
I also do the "rosto rock".  I find it produces a more even roast.  I
position the Rosto with the dial and vent facing to my right (so the hot air
doesn't blow directly at me) and rock the unit to my left (the "back" of the
unit) once or twice and then let the beans swirl back on their own. The
floor of the Rosto tends to be hotter than the sides and if the beans don't
move, you'll get beans turning brown at the bottom of the batch before the
ones on top even change from green.
I use a 151gm batch size.  Sometimes after the beans loose some water
weight, they move well on their own but sometimes I have to rock through the
entire process - about once evey 20 seconds or so.  This vaires based on
bean size, density and variety.  Using a thermocouple, I can attest that the
Rosto chamber is uneven in heat distribution and the rocking helps even out
the bean temp throughout the batch.  I'll have beans at 400f on the
thermocouple, do a rock or two and the temp will fall 10f, then catch up in
10 seconds or so.
You could use a lower batch weight, but my experience is that you'll get a
less even result.
Hope this helps,
Bob Trancho
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14) From: Irene and Lubos Palounek
John,
the instructions that come with the Cafe Rosto 120 say that the included
measuring cup is to large.
After some experimenting, I use in our Caffe Rosto 100g or 3.5 oz (by
weight) of green beans during the "cooler" months and 113g or 4 oz during
the warm months. I roast outside, and we are on our second Caffe Rosto,
eagerly awaiting the Hot Top in three days and some hours.
Cheers, Lubos
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15) From: Bob Trancho
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
John,
151 gms is 1/3 of a pound (28.3 grams per ounce = 452.8 gms per pound) -
that leaves no left over beans at the end of a bag!
Yes, the chamber gets HOT!  That's why I keep the front control section to
my right and grab it from there and from the base on the left.
Bob
  -----Original
        Thanks Bob, how did you come up with 151 grams, is that the scoop
size?
        I've already learned the hard way not to grab the vent area - OUCH!
But it makes such a ready handle :O)
        --

16) From: tonya connell
You talk like there is anything other than "warm" months here in Tejas! ;)
Tonya


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