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Topic: "Bracketing" roasts question (26 msgs / 585 lines)
1) From: Mark A. Chalkley
I can't claim to be a hard-core roaster by any means, having only used
a WBP for a few months, a HWP for a couple years, and a HWI for a few
days.  But, armed with a new roaster, I'm experimenting some more
these days.
My HWI, which I got from Canada because it was the only place I could
find one, came with some suggestions about "bracketing" roasts (my
term, not theirs, which I'm borrowing from my photography background,
as in bracketing exposures...).  They claimed that mixing different
roasts of the same bean results in a more rounded or "fuller" taste
profile (again, my wording, not theirs).
My question:  How many of the membership here have experimented with
this and, for those of you who have, what are your recommendations or
observations on the merits and/or disadvantages of doing this?  (Ok,
so that's more than one question...)
Mark C.
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2) From: Irene and Lubos Palounek
" ...they claimed that mixing different roasts of the same bean results in a
more rounded or "fuller" taste profile ..."
I think that is called a "mélange blend", search for it on Sweet Maria's
site or in the Archives of this list.
Regards, Lubos
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3) From: Rick Farris
Mark wrote:
<Snip>
I almost always roast six (~80g) batches per session.  (All one type of
bean) The first batch I roast very darkly, almost all the way through
second.  I log the times of the beginning, rolling and ending of first and
second crack, and when I stopped the roast.
Now that I know approximately where first crack ends, second crack starts,
and where second crack rolls, I usually run four batches to the beginning of
second crack.  The final (of six) batches I usually stop as close to the end
of first crack as I can get it.  (That one is for Tom.)
I rarely blend any of the batches, but I usually end up with some odds and
ends because I brew less than 80/68g (unroasted/roasted) at a time.  Those
leftovers I sometimes combine to make a mélange.
I heartily recommend bracketing, but I'm ambivalent about the blending.
-- Rick
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4) From: jim gundlach
On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 09:24 PM, Mark A. Chalkley wrote:
<Snip>
When I roast in the wok, I will often pull some of the beans out at two 
or three stages.  Never heard it described as bracketed but it sounds 
like a good name for it to me.  I do find the flavor is improved.  
However, that was before I started experimenting with a profiled roast.  
I find that a profiled roast improves the flavor more than the 
bracketed.  I guess I can try a bracketed profile roast next .  One 
problem with all this experimentation is that it calls for a high degree 
of control which I can't do yet with the wood fire and the popcorn 
popper so I end up using the wok.  But my interest is now peaked so I 
guess I will bracket the next profile roast.
On the profile roasting I now use a five stage profile.  first, heat 
quickly until the smell of hay emerges, then slow it down to extend the 
hay like smell for about four minutes.  Then quick heating until first 
crack in less than two minutes followed by lower heat to stretch the 
first crack phase to about four minutes.  finally, quick heat to early 
second crack for a total roast time of about thirteen and a half to 
fourteen minutes.  After profiling three roasts in a row, I experimented 
with a straight roast with the same level of heat and stirring to start 
the second crack in about the same time.  It was good but not as complex 
and interesting as the profiled roasts were.  I have been doing all this 
with the Uganda to limit the variables during experimentation.  Just got 
another five pounds today so tomorrow I will try the bracketed profile.
Jim Gundlach
back to roasting in a wok for a while.
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5) From: Ben Silva

6) From: Wendy Austin & Thomas Oswin
On 3/8/02 9:18, "Ben Silva"  wrote:
<Snip>
d
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
r
<Snip>
Or, if you are using an Apple Mac,  'option' + 'e' then 'e' again and you
have it.
Wendy
Wendy Austin & Thomas Oswin
Coastal Road
Pomponette
Mauritius Island
Tel/ans/fax  (230) 6257399
Mobile  (230) 2560182   •
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7) From:
I've tried this Mark, but really haven't experimented to much.  Most of the
coffee's are great at a single roast and I've never wanted to mess with a
good thing! :)  Let us know if you come up with any tremendous blends!
Scott
<Snip>
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8) From:
I don't even think my computer keyboard is capable of making one!  My old
typewriter could, but I can't see how to do it here?
Scott
<Snip>
don't
<Snip>
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9) From: Ben Silva

10) From: Ben Silva

11) From: Gary Zimmerman
Mark A. Chalkley wrote:
<Snip>
I did this when I started home roasting, and got some very good results.  I 
would roast two batches, a day apart: first a lighter roast through first 
crack but not into second.  The next day I'd do a darker batch, somewhat 
into second crack - say 30 seconds to one minute.  I'd try each by itself 
one morning, then do a 50:50 blend the next day.  I felt the blend gave me 
the "full" range of coffee flavors for the variety.  Some worked better 
than others, notably I had the best results I remember with a Mexican 
Chiapas.  That really got me hooked on home roasting.
As I roasted more, I think I just got impatient to try all the different 
types of coffee, so stopped the bracketing in favor of blends of different 
varieties.  I've often thought of going back to the bracketing, though, 
because it can give very nice results.  I just have to discipline myself to 
do it!
-- garyZ
WhirleyPop-drip(paper)-black
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12) From: R.N.Kyle
mélange blend, same bean roasted to different degrees, gives the cup a
complexity, a mix of different charachisitc that the different degrees of
roast provide. I once roasted my wife some Columbian , I made two roast, one
was city, just short of 2nd crack, and one 30 sec. into 2nd crack. She
didn't care for either roast separately so I combined the two 50/50 and she
said it was a very good cup. Since then I've done this kind of blending with
Brazilian Auction winner. And Costa Rican la magnolia with good results, it
gives you the best of both worlds. brightness, and body. good luck
Sweet Marias Tom talks about this on the web sight
sweetmarias.com   under Library section Blending. he has several suggestion
you can try.
Ron Kyle
a coffee roaster from South Carolina
rnkyle

13) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
order
<Snip>
want
<Snip>
While you are there, memorize or write down the keystroke codes for the ones
you will use often.  An umlaut U is keycode 0220.  Hold down your ALT key
while typing on the NUMERICAL keyboard (the little, all number one at the
right) 0220.    Here goes:  ALT 0220 = Ü     Simple.   Ever notice the neat
degree symbols in my posts?  ALT 0176 = °    A very handy shortcut.
Oh, when you go to the Character Map it may display symbols.  Just change
the font to any thing else and you'll be OK.
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14) From: Ben Silva

15) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
Well, in the counter-defense for PC's the ASCII ALT keystrokes work in EVERY
PC program from word processors, to spreadsheets to paint programs.  :)
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16) From: Mark A. Chalkley
I had seen the mélange info on Tom's site before, but all the examples
there show different types of beans roasted to different degrees, no
pun intended...
My question, though, was specifically targeted at a "blend" using only
one type of bean with different roasts.  I guess the term "mélange" is
meant to include this type of "blending" too, but I like "bracketing"
because it actually describes the process involved.
I used this technique a couple days ago on a Tarrazu that I never
found particularly appealing when roasted to a City or Full City, and
was extremely pleased with the results.  What had been, to my taste, a
pretty nondescript cup was much, much more flavorful. My tastes
generally tend toward the Yemenis, though, so that's worth noting. (My
wife says my fondness for hot peppers has fried my taste buds, but I
can detect subtle spices in foods as well as she can, so I think it's
just preference. I can taste the blander flavors, I just don't like
them as well.)  I was really surprised by the "depth" and variety of
flavors in the Tarrazu "blend" of City, Full City, and Full City+. I'm
definitely going to do more of this - a lot more.  In fact, though I
had been really looking forward to a new HW with more capacity, or
perhaps a HotTop for the same reason, I'm now viewing the smaller
capacity of the HWI as an advantage, because I can roast several
batches of the same bean to various roasts, then blend them for the
enhanced flavor effect.
Mark C.
RNK> Sweet Marias Tom talks about this on the web sight
RNK> sweetmarias.com   under Library section Blending. he has several
RNK> suggestion you can try.
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17) From: R.N.Kyle
Hey Mark, you mentioned city, full city, full city +. would that be (city
just thru first crack), full city into 2nd crack, and full city + a rolling
2nd crack? I've never tried a combo of 3 different degrees of roast, just 2,
it sound interesting, and something I will try, I'm quite fond of CRT.
thanks
Ron Kyle
a coffee roaster from South Carolina
rnkyle

18) From: EskWIRED
<Snip>
I do it intentionally sometimes.  I do it by accident too, if I roast 2
batches of the same bean, ad they don't come out exactly alike.
I like it.  The resulting product looks cool, and you get the full range of
possible taste.
Sometimes I throw a handful of beans in and let them go well past second
crack, to the very dark/very oily stage, and throw them in with a full batch
done to a medium city roast.  They add a little bit of the darkroast taste,
while allowing the varietal flavor to predominate.
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19) From: EskWIRED
<Snip>
Do you use the distance to the charcoal to vary the heat?  And why a wok,
instead of an enclosed container?
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20) From: jim gundlach
On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 09:47 AM, EskWIRED wrote:
<Snip>
I have found that when I roast in a wok I can see, hear, and smell 
better while roasting.   I also have more control over the rate I am 
adding heat to the beans.  When I roast in the wok, I cook over a wood 
burning stove that fits the wok well in the winter.  But in an Alabama 
summer, it is just too warm to stand next to a wood heater while 
roasting so use my gas range.    Once I feel I know how the roast should 
progress, I can move to the fireplace popcorn popper and roast over a 
pecan wood fire where my senses have less access to the roasting 
process.  The smoke muddles the smell of the beans, the mesh of the 
popper restricts my view, and I cannot take a few out to check closely.  
For example, after I have timed the first crack stage to four minutes in 
the wok a couple of times, I can tell if it is going too fast or slow 
when I am roasting over the wood fire and make appropriate adjustments.  
Another example, the pre-oil sheen that someone mentioned on this list 
earlier was much easier to detect while roasting in the wok.  However, 
once I had seen it up close, which I can do in the wok, I know what to 
look for and can spot it t when roasting over wood.   There are several 
other elements that work the same way.  When I roast in a wok, I am 
close to the process and learn a lot.  Once I've learned these things, I 
can sense them better using roasting tools that keep me further away 
from the process.
Hope this helps.
Jim Gundlach
<Snip>
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21) From: Charlie Herlihy
 Jim Gundlach wroteOnce I feel I know how the
roast 
should 
progress, I can move to the fireplace popcorn popper
and roast over a 
pecan wood fire where my senses have less access to
the roasting 
process.  The smoke muddles the smell of the beans,
the mesh of the 
popper restricts my view, and I cannot take a few out
to check closely
 All true with the fireplace popcorn popper, except I
can easily and quickly open it to check on how the
beans look, and drop a few out into the cooling bowl
at differant stages if I want a "bracketed" roast. It
works best  for quick opening and closing if there's
only 1/2 lb. or less in it. I think they make the best
sample roasters I've ever seen. Turn on a dime
controll over every aspect. Put it to where it's
hotter or remove to cooler spot instantly, total
agitation control, very easy to hear the cracks, and
very fast dumping of beans for cooling. No variacs or
any kind of electrical power needed, and you get fore
arms just like Popeye! (have welders mitts for these)
Charlie 
=====
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22) From: jim gundlach
On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 11:57 AM, Charlie Herlihy wrote:
<Snip>
I agree entirely, my problem is that my BBQ is about 150 feet from my 
cooling site and by the time I make there and back to dump and cool part 
of a roast the remaining beans will have had their roasting 
interrupted.  I have a copper cooling bowl/pot on the way that I will be 
able to take out by the BBQ and solve that problem.
Jim Gundlach
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23) From: EskWIRED
<Snip>
Very much.  I'm interested in trying it now. 
I'm going to be smoking an Oven Stuffer Roaster in my 
pit later this afternoon, so I'll have a nice bed of charcoal handy...
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24) From: Mark A. Chalkley
Using inspiration from Gary's recent message, I just made up a
"bracketed mélange" of equal parts Kenya "AA", Monsooned Malabar, and
Yemen Mocca Raimy, in 4 batches, one at Full City+, 2 at Full City-,
and one at City. For some reason, I had a third of a cup of the blend
left over, so I French Roasted them, using your idea as well. (Reminds
me of Woody Guthrie's remark about somebody copying his songs:  "He
just steals from me - I steal from everybody.")  Anyway, after cooling
them, I mixed all the batches and threw them in the Vac-U-Vin coffee
canister I just got last week.  Can't wait till tomorrow morning -
maybe I'll get up extra early so I can try it sooner... ;>)
Mark C.
On Saturday, August 3, 2002, 2:14:51 PM, you wrote:
E> I do it intentionally sometimes.  I do it by accident too, if I
E> roast 2 batches of the same bean, ad they don't come out exactly
E> alike.
E> I like it.  The resulting product looks cool, and you get the full range of
E> possible taste.
E> Sometimes I throw a handful of beans in and let them go well past second
E> crack, to the very dark/very oily stage, and throw them in with a full batch
E> done to a medium city roast.  They add a little bit of the darkroast taste,
E> while allowing the varietal flavor to predominate.
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25) From: Gary Zimmerman
Hi Mark,
Did you try this blend?  I hope it worked out for you.  My first brew of it=
 
was amazing, and subsequent brews were still good, but none so spectacular=
 
as the first.  Still the balance just struck me as very nice.  Kenya is the=
 
great regular coffee taste, Yemen gives it some fruit and chocolate, and 
the Malabar gives it a hint of funk and results in a nice long aftertaste.
Never could reproduce it, but I savored it while I had it.  I think I did 
mine as a post-roast blend, though.
-- garyZ
<Snip>
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26) From: Mark A. Chalkley
Hi Gary,
As a matter of fact, I did try the blend.  I roasted it up just the
way I mentioned.  I thought it was extremely good.  In fact, I shared
it with a couple folks who've sampled my experiments before and they
both declared it to be excellent.
I think I might increase the amount of Yemeni in the next batch, just
to see what effect it has.  All in all, I think the blend was a big
success, though:  I plan to try it again, that's for sure.
Thanks!
Mark C.
On Monday, August 19, 2002, 5:34:09 PM, you wrote:
GZ> Hi Mark,
GZ> Did you try this blend?  I hope it worked out for you.  My first brew of it 
GZ> was amazing, and subsequent brews were still good, but none so spectacular 
GZ> as the first.  Still the balance just struck me as very nice.  Kenya is the 
GZ> great regular coffee taste, Yemen gives it some fruit and chocolate, and 
GZ> the Malabar gives it a hint of funk and results in a nice long aftertaste.
GZ> Never could reproduce it, but I savored it while I had it.  I think I did 
GZ> mine as a post-roast blend, though.
GZ> -- garyZ
<Snip>
GZ>
GZ> homeroast mailing list
GZ>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroasthomeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast


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