HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Food Saver (11 msgs / 398 lines)
1) From: R.N.Kyle
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hey, gang the big brown truck delivered a Tilla Food Saver (500) Friday. =
I got it from QVC. It is a manual vac & seal, but it came with 3 =
different size canisters, 1 roll of 8", and 1 roll of 11" bags. 5 pre =
made 8, and 11" bags. a wide mouth jar sealer, and a universal sealer, =
and a bottle stopper sealer. The wife and I couldn't pass it up for $ 99 =
with tax and S&H it came to $123.57> I sealed up some beans that I had 2 =
or more lbs. of, it did a good job, they are hard as a rock. 
Not sure how those with vac systems, vac seal roasted beans, with the =
CO2 release. I usually degas in wide mouth jars. I thought after =
de-gassing, it would be great to vac seal and store roasted beans.
What is the shelf life of roasted beans, before they begin to go stale. =
I thought this would be great way to deliver fresh roasted beans to =
friends and relatives for Christmas, and other occasions.
Ron Kyle
a coffee roaster from South Carolina
rnkyle

2) From: Mike McGinness
From: "R.N.Kyle" 
Not sure how those with vac systems, vac seal roasted beans, with the
CO2  release. I usually degas in wide mouth jars. I thought after
de-gassing, it would be great to vac seal and store roasted beans.
I 'degas' the roasted beans vac' sealed in canning jars using dome lids and
FS attachment. Re-vac' daily for first couple days. Darker roasts will 'pop'
the dome faster than lighter roasts, giving off more CO2. Even if the jars
haven't 'popped' I break the seal and re-vac'.
What is the shelf life of roasted beans, before they begin to go stale. I
thought this would be great way to deliver fresh roasted beans to friends
and relatives for Christmas, and other occasions.
If roast isn't to be totally consumed in a week I freeze it after 3 days.
Freezing arrests or atleast greatly slows degassing. Hence, it is already
degassed to the most common 'best' flavor stage. For use, I measure out the
desired grind, re-vac' and return beans to freezer, and let the frozen beans
thaw 5 or 10 minutes before grinding... My opinion is properly vac'd and
frozen whole roasted beans are good for months.
MM;-)
Home Ju-Ju Variable Variac Rockin' Rosto Roasting in Vancouver, WA USA
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3) From: R.N.Kyle
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks Mike, I thought degassing usually 3 days in jars is the best way, =
and then vac seal in bags and freeze. I'm new at this sort of storing of =
beans.
Ron Kyle
a coffee roaster from South Carolina
rnkyle

4) From: Irene and Lubos Palounek
"Not sure how those with vac systems, vac seal roasted beans, with the CO2
release. I usually degas in wide mouth jars. I thought after de-gassing, it
would be great to vac seal and store roasted beans."
Ron, we use the  "3 different size canisters" that came with the roaster,
and bought more of them. (Sears sells them at relatively good price, I
believe.) I am not sure whether it is good to use almost full canister so
that there is not much "vacuum" above them and they are stored in "mostly
CO2" at a "worse" vacuum level. Or is it better to use "less than half-full"
canisters so that the "vacuum" gets "less diluted" by the C02?
Freshly roasted coffee will emit 85 percent of its available CO2 within ten
hours after roasting [Schomer, Espresso Coffee, page 66].
About 12 hours after roasting, we "vacuum" the canister again, without
opening it.  I am not sure whether that is the best approach. Any comments?
"What is the shelf life of roasted beans, before they begin to go stale. I
thought this would be great way to deliver fresh roasted beans to friends
and relatives for Christmas, and other occasions."
In our experience, the roasted coffee in the vacuumed canisters stays fresh
for about a week. Stored in dark, at room temperature.
We never refrigerate our roasted coffee, because refrigeration or freezing
could affect the internal moisture of roasted beans  that is important to
the preservation of coffee flavor.
It is interesting to note that David Schomer states on page 67 of his
excellent book "Espresso Coffee" that they do refrigerate the decaf due to
its extreme volatility after roasting. He states: "We put it into 1/2 pound
bags and each bag is put into a container before refrigeration. The decaf is
fine for up to a week after roasting if refrigerated right after roasting."
BTW, the more we use our Hot Top roaster, the more we like it.  I think that
its "roast profiles" are very well designed and produce superior coffee.
Regards, Lubos
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5) From: coffenut
Mike,
I've been using the FoodSaver with the Mason jar attachment for a couple
of weeks now.  Roughly 8oz of roasted beans fills the jar a little over
half way.  I've not seen the lids pop even after 3 days of storage
(retaining ring not used).  I thought I'd read somewhere that allowing
the CO2 to remain was an ok thing.  It's the basic premise with the gold
bags with the one-way valve that Tom sells.  Theoretically, the CO2
builds up in the bag pushing the oxygen outside via the one way valve
leaving the beans sealed inside with the CO2.  So, I was wondering why
you break and reseal the jars daily?  Did you test that process versus
allowing the beans to remain sealed for several days and find a flavor
difference?  Just curious, and by the way, many thanks for steering some
of us to this very handy product.
Coffenut  :^)  
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lids
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jars
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6) From: Mike McGinness
Hi Coffenut,
From: "coffenut" 
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I use pint size jars which are filled just below the top for a single 1/3#
greens 1/4#+ batch. Qt. jar for double batch, also almost completely full. A
fuller jar would of course produce more CO2 for a given volume of space.
When you open the dome do you still get the 'swoosh' of air rushing in? I
use the rings as a 'backup' just in case the CO2 pops the dome while I'm not
around to help prevent air, and damaging O, to enter...
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Yes, CO2 is believed to be ok for keeping oxygen out. I use the valve bags
for coffee gift giving. I'm just an extremist I guess and vac and re-vac to
make sure the maximum possible oxygen is removed and stays removed. I got in
the habit of re-vac'ing daily from Vienna to French roasts (combined with
full jars), they degas faster and consequently pop the domes faster. My
usual 435f city roasts don't necessarily pop the domes. But if I don't
re-vac, and after 2 or 3 days break the seal, I can tell from the sound of
the 'swoosh' there is very little vac pressure left so I re-vac them
periodically 'just because'! No I haven't really done any real serious taste
comparison re-vac'ing vs. not re-vac'ing...
MM;-)
Home Ju-Ju Variable Variac Rockin' Rosto Roasting in Vancouver, WA USA
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

7) From: coffenut
Mike,
Ahhhhh...I understand why we're seeing different things.  I use the
quart-size jars and they are just a little over half full, so more
head-room for CO2.  I always get a decent swoosh of air when I crack the
lid which I've been thinking means that I have as much vacuum as I
started with...maybe not?  I figured as long as I get the swoosh and the
lid is tight, I still have vacuum.  Most of my roasts are at the very
first snaps of 2nd and never into the dark oily roast levels, so that
too is likely a reason for differences.
Coffenut  :^)
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couple
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over
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1/3#
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full.
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space.
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in? I
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I'm
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gold
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valve
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why
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versus
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flavor
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some
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bags
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re-vac
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got
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with
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My
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don't
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sound of
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8) From: R.N.Kyle
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks Lubos, The degassing information is nice to know. I got 3 =
different size canisters, and will try one with roasted coffee. My wife =
grabbed the large one right away, and put fresh celery in it, to see if =
it stay crisp longer then just in the refrigerator. Thanks again
Ron Kyle
a coffee roaster from South Carolina
rnkyle

9) From: Rick Farris
Coffenut wrote:
<Snip>
Hey Nut!  How long did it take your mason jar attachment to come in?  I
ordered mine Wednesday...
-- Rick
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10) From: Rick Farris
Coffenut wrote:
<Snip>
Vacuum is a continuum.  Tilia doesn't achieve anything like a hard vacuum
(feel free to hop in here, Ryoji).  According to their website it's about
25" of mercury.  I think a hard vacuum is somewhere around 29" or 30".
The instant the vacuum pump stops, the beans begin outgassing and your
vacuum begins becoming less.
The important part, though, is that you're trying to protect the beans from
oxygen.  As long as there is not a positive pressure (in other words, as
long as the lid hasn't popped) oxygen can't get in.  In fact, even if the
lid *has* popped, as long as the jar is sitting upright and hasn't been
jostled it will still be full of CO2 (which AlChemist John assures me is
heavier than air), keeping oxygen away from the beans!
If I ever get my mason jar sealer, I'll prolly put the rings on them, but
loosely, just to keep the lids from becoming dislodged in case of sufficient
outgassing to pop them.
-- Rick
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11) From: coffenut
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I
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I seem to recall their web-site claimed several weeks to deliver, but
mine arrived in about 6 days.  When you get your jar attachment, you may
have to put another lid on top of the one being sealed (double-stacked).
Mine would not seal at all, so I called Tilia and they told me to try
another lid on top and that worked.  
I don't know if you plan on using any of the canisters that Tilia sells,
but Costco has a decent buy on a 5-piece set for $39.  I really love
this thing and use it all the time.  Works pretty good on potato chip
bags and cereal bags too.  I just got an email from Tilia advertising a
base unit for the Food Saver that hold two rolls and includes a cutter.
Your unit just drops right on top of it.  Have fun.
Coffenut  :^)
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