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Topic: The cross-country coffee race. (22 msgs / 659 lines)
1) From: jim gundlach
Just to update on the cross-country coffee race.  Both 5 pound packages =
of coffee are in what amounts to the Atlanta distribution centers now.
Here is the FedEx detailed shipping log to date:
Scanned at FedEx sort facility/ATLANTA GA	10/08/2002 13:29
Arrived at FedEx sort facility/ATLANTA GA	10/08/2002 06:59
Departed FedEx sort facility/SACRAMENTO CA	10/05/2002 12:35
Scanned at FedEx sort facility/SACRAMENTO CA	10/04/2002 02:49
Arrived at FedEx sort facility/SACRAMENTO CA	10/04/2002 00:05
Departed FedEx sort facility/OAKLAND CA	10/03/2002 21:24
Package information transmitted to FedEx 	10/03/2002 19:47
Loaded onto trailer at FedEx facility/OAKLAND CA	10/03/2002 19:43=
Scanned at FedEx origin location/OAKLAND CA	10/03/2002 19:42
Picked up by FedEx/OAKLAND CA	10/03/2002 17:15
And here is the UPS detailed shipping log:
 	 	 	 	 	 	 
PACKAGE PROGRESS
Date	 	Time	 	Location	 	Activity
Oct 8, 2002	 	3:21 P.M.	 	DORAVILLE, GA, US	=
 	LOCATION SCAN
 	 	2:50 P.M.	 	DORAVILLE, GA, US	 	=
UNLOAD SCAN
 	 	1:03 P.M.	 	DORAVILLE, GA, US	 	=
ARRIVAL SCAN
Oct 3, 2002	 	2:24 A.M.	 	RICHMOND, CA, US	=
 	DEPARTURE SCAN
Oct 2, 2002	 	11:06 P.M.	 	RICHMOND, CA, US	=
 	LOCATION SCAN
 	 	9:30 P.M.	 	RICHMOND, CA, US	 	=
ARRIVAL SCAN
 	 	8:54 P.M.	 	OAKLAND, CA, US	 	=
DEPARTURE SCAN
 	 	7:57 P.M.	 	US	 	BILLING =
INFORMATION RECEIVED
 	 	7:41 P.M.	 	OAKLAND, CA, US	 	LOCATION =
SCAN
 	 	7:36 P.M.	 	OAKLAND, CA, US	 	ORIGIN =
SCAN
both packages should arrive tomorrow.  However, I will not be here and =
I will not know for sure which will arrive first.  If the log indicates =
delivery time I will post the results.  We usually get a FedEx delivery =
between 10:00 and 11:00 am and a UPS delivery soon after 4:00 p.m.  The =
key is that the FedEx got a later start and they took their own sweet 
time getting the package onto a cross country run.  Tom delivered the 
package to a FedEx office at about 10:00 am on the 3rd and it took 
FedEx until 12:35 p.m. the 5th to get the package out the door leaving =
Sacramento.  I believe Sacramento is only about a 3 hour drive from 
Oakland, but it has been over twenty years since I drove it so my 
memory may be wrong.
UPS seems to be more effective at getting the package on the long haul. =
  Tom said it was picked up at about 6:00 pm on the 2nd and they had it =
out the door headed to Atlanta by 1:03 p.m. the 3rd.
Once on the way, however FedEx  makes up time.  From Sacramento at 
12:35 p.m. on the 5th to Atlanta at 6:59 a.m. on the 8th.  UPS departed =
  Richmond, Ca at 11:06 on the 3rd and arrived at Doraville, a suburb of =
Atlanta, at 3:21 p.m. on the 8th.  FedEx took about 2 3/4 days to make =
the long haul while UPS poked along and took about 4 1/2.
Tomorrow, we will see if they live up to scheduled delivery dates.
Jim Gundlach
La Place, Alabama
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2) From: jim gundlach
To update the race:  This morning at 7:57 the UPS truck left the 
distribution center in Montgomery with the five pounds they are 
delivering.  The FedEx truck departed at 8:06 with their five pounds. 
Since this is going to be a long day, I expect to find both at home 
when I get there.
Jim Gundlach
La Place, Alabama.
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3) From: steve_w
Quoting jim gundlach :
<Snip>
In my experience UPS has a greater tendency to leave a sticker at the
door and come back for a second delivery than FedEx.  So I'm guessing
FedEx will win this race.
Steve
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4) From: Chris Archuleta
Personally I am interested to see which package has the most physical
damage.  I've had poor luck with UPS' package handling, and haven't had
the difficulty with FedEx.
Chris

5) From: EskWIRED
<Snip>
Please update ME.
Did this all come about because SM moved?  I don't quite get it.  Why does
it matter much how many days it takes green coffee to go x distance?
I understand WRT roasted coffee, because every day matters.  But green?
Is that what this is all about?
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6) From: Al Raden
Come on...
Haven't you ever waited too long to order, and you're out of green; or 
the bag you thought had monkey blend is an old bag of vietnamese 
robusta?  No, by your questions, I'd guess you haven't... must be nice 
to be that organized...
- al r.
EskWIRED wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
- Al Raden
 http://www.brandydesigns.com

7) From: Jim Gundlach
On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 09:38 AM, EskWIRED wrote:
<Snip>
Because I'm setting here in La Place Alabama, keeping a fire going, 
waiting for the beans to arrive so I can roast, grind, brew and drink 
some coffee.  Once I order a new bean, or heaven forbid I'm out, I 
think the quicker it arrives the better.  Besides those of us on the 
East side of the Mississippi were spoiled by the quick delivery we had 
before Tom and Maria moved.
Jim Gundlach
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8) From: floyd burton
Agree completely-also the heavier the package, the more the UPS people throw
them around.  Apparently the UPS system involves a lot more transfers from
one truck to another than FedEx or maybe the UPS people are more into
forward pass type of handling.

9) From: John
Jim,
And it was a test between delivery cost & speed between two methods. I
appreciate the race (clearly not a racist).
John - living where everything takes 8 days (six plus a week-end) 
On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 10:13, Jim Gundlach wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Gary Zimmerman
EskWIRED wrote:
<Snip>
Anticipation.  Terrible, wonderful anticipation.
-- garyZ
(...and maybe a little procrastination.  If you let yourself run out of 
green, and you run out of roasted, any wait can be interminable.)
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11) From: EskWIRED
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Haven't you ever waited too long to order, and you're out of green; or the
bag you thought had monkey blend is an old bag of vietnamese robusta?  No,
by your questions, I'd guess you haven't... must be nice to be that
organized...
 I'm not organized, but I find I too often have a surplus of green, rather
than a deficit...

12) From: John
You'll never get into CSA with language like this! One can NEVER have a
"surplus" of beans.  There are several beans that I order 20# at a time
from Tom and if they reach the five pound level they are immediately
reordered.  However, back to the main point, One would not have to be
concerned with delivery schedules if one maintained a reasonable buffer.
My problem is that reasonable keeps getting larger.
On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 11:28, EskWIRED wrote:
<Snip>
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13) From: Mark A. Chalkley
On the subject of UPS, a friend of mine and I have both noticed a very
strange thing:  Quite a few times, not always but not infrequently
either, when packages are being shipped to us (on the East Coast) from
the Midwest or West Coast, we've seen packages sit at their point of
origin for extended periods of time, then suddenly go from there to
the local distribution facility.  The only conclusion we can come to
from this is that one of two things is happening:  1) The UPS tracking
mechanism is totally worthless and/or deliberately misleading.  OR  2)
UPS is sometimes shipping packages by air after holding packages for
an "appropriate" period of time so the customer doesn't get faster
shipping than he/she paid for.  I can't say the latter scenario is
unethical or dishonest on their part, if that's what's happening, but
it is a bit amusing...
Mark C.
On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, 11:13:28 AM, you wrote:
JG> On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 09:38 AM, EskWIRED wrote:
<Snip>
JG> Because I'm setting here in La Place Alabama, keeping a fire going, 
JG> waiting for the beans to arrive so I can roast, grind, brew and drink 
JG> some coffee.  Once I order a new bean, or heaven forbid I'm out, I 
JG> think the quicker it arrives the better.  Besides those of us on the 
JG> East side of the Mississippi were spoiled by the quick delivery we had 
JG> before Tom and Maria moved.
JG> Jim Gundlach
JG>
JG> homeroast mailing list
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14) From: John
WOW WHERE HAS THIS BEEN? I sent it five hours ago!!
On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 12:08, John wrote:
<Snip>
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15) From: susan oppenheim
this would be a great short film
the race for taste
what a hoot
good for you Jim
lol here in Toronto
jim gundlach wrote:
<Snip>
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16) From: susan oppenheim
some things you just have to accept in life
this is their race I think
EskWIRED wrote:
<Snip>
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17) From: Spencer W. Thomas
Or, it's on a truck, and they're not unpacking the truck on a daily 
basis to give you progress reports.  
Mark A. Chalkley wrote:
<Snip>
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18) From: Mark A. Chalkley
If so, that takes us back to possibility #1 (their tracking system is
worthless and/or deliberately misleading), because they show a package
on a truck as having had a "Departure Scan".  For example, here's a
tracking summary from a package already delivered to me (I'm probably
violating UPS' rules by pasting this here, because the site itself
says "UPS authorizes you to use UPS tracking systems solely to track
shipments tendered by or for you to UPS for delivery and for no other
purpose. Any other use of UPS tracking systems and information is
strictly prohibited."  I expect they would consider using their own
information to track their tracking system to be an "other purpose".):
Aug 20, 2002   4:01 P.M.   NEWPORT NEWS, VA, US   DELIVERY
               6:17 A.M.   NEWPORT NEWS, VA, US   OUT FOR DELIVERY
               6:16 A.M.   NEWPORT NEWS, VA, US   ARRIVAL SCAN
Aug 16, 2002   3:34 P.M.   HODGKINS, IL, US       DEPARTURE SCAN
               11:04 A.M.  HODGKINS, IL, US      ORIGIN SCAN
Aug 14, 2002   12:48 P.M.  US   BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED
As you can see, it arrived (or at least was first scanned) at the
origin hub at 11:04 A.M. on 8/16.  (Where it was from when the billing
info was received two days before is anybody's guess.)  Then, at 3:34
PM the same day (8/16), it left the origin hub with a "Departure
Scan", and was on the truck, presumably, until it was unloaded and got
the "Arrival Scan" at 6:16 AM on 8/20, 3 1/2 days later.  But, again,
note that when it left on the truck, there was a "Departure Scan".  So
you should never have a case where it's on a truck without that -
otherwise the tracking system would be truly worthless.
Coincidentally, I'm tracking a package right now which shows signs of
having the same problem I mentioned in my first message, though it's
early yet to be drawing any conclusions.  I finally broke down and
ordered a Royal vacuum pot (balance siphon) Monday evening.  They ship
from San Fran and I received the tracking number 4:17 PM Tuesday.
Tracking so far shows that it's been sitting in the Richmond, CA hub
since 10:21 PM Tuesday. Scheduled delivery is Oct 15. It will be
interesting to see how far it goes and how fast when it finally
leaves.  I'll keep everyone posted.
Mark C.
On Thursday, October 10, 2002, 11:17:25 AM, you wrote:
SWT> Or, it's on a truck, and they're not unpacking the truck on a daily 
SWT> basis to give you progress reports.  
SWT> Mark A. Chalkley wrote:
<Snip>
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19) From: Al Raden
Depending on who shipped the package, the delay between the "billing 
information received" and "origin scan" is likely the fault of the 
shipper.  Looks like they printed the label on the 14th, but didn't take 
it to UPS until the 16th.
- al r.
Mark A. Chalkley wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
- Al Raden
 http://www.brandydesigns.com

20) From: Mark A. Chalkley
Al,
You bring up an interesting possibility, and one I hadn't considered.
Shame on the shipper, if that's so.
The Royal Vac pot I'm waiting on has now been sitting in Richmond, CA
for almost a full 3 days, depending on whether the times they list are
PT or ET.  Obviously, if they're planning on delivering it on the
15th, it's getting to the point where they're going to _have_ to ship
by air instead of ground. So, it seems to be another example of the
situation I mentioned earlier, where the only difference between air
and ground shipping via UPS is that they hold the ground shipments in
the hub until the right amount of time has elapsed, then ship it by
air anyway.  I've pasted the tracking info below, in case anyone's
interested. I've erased the tracking number, but if anyone wants it to
follow it for themselves, just e-mail me and I'll send it to you...
Status:   In Transit
Scheduled Delivery:   Oct 15, 2002 
Shipped to:   GLOUCESTER, VA, US 
Shipped or Billed on:   Oct 8, 2002 
      
Tracking Number:
Service Type:   GROUND 
Weight:   8.40 Lbs
       
PACKAGE PROGRESS 
Date   Time   Location   Activity 
Oct 8, 2002   11:15 P.M.   RICHMOND, CA, US   LOCATION SCAN 
    11:15 P.M.   RICHMOND, CA, US   LOCATION SCAN 
    11:04 P.M.   RICHMOND, CA, US   LOCATION SCAN 
    10:21 P.M.   RICHMOND, CA, US   ARRIVAL SCAN 
    10:06 P.M.   SAN FRANCISCO, CA, US   DEPARTURE SCAN 
    8:45 P.M.   SAN FRANCISCO, CA, US   ORIGIN SCAN 
    7:37 P.M.   US   BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED 
Mark C.
On Thursday, October 10, 2002, 1:49:08 PM, you wrote:
AR> Depending on who shipped the package, the delay between the "billing 
AR> information received" and "origin scan" is likely the fault of the 
AR> shipper.  Looks like they printed the label on the 14th, but didn't take 
AR> it to UPS until the 16th.
AR> - al r.
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21) From: jim gundlach
As I recall in the coffee race, the UPS pack got out of Richmond rather 
promptly and it took four and a half days to get to Atlanta.  FedEx 
took rather long to get on the road but once on the road, seemed to go  
almost non-stop, making the trip in two and a half days.  Some of this 
may be late data entry, but it should be fairly automatic.
Jim Gundlach
La Place, Alabama
On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 08:29 PM, Mark A. Chalkley wrote:
<Snip>
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22) From: Mark A. Chalkley
I seem to recall the same thing, Jim.  I'm not saying I've noticed the
origin-point-delay happen _most_ of the time, just far too often to be
an "oops, we lost this package for a few days, so we'd better go ahead
and ship it by air" scenario.  I'd say that about a third of the time
I order something from the midwest or further west, this happens. It's
often enough that they're definitely doing it as a matter of procedure
in certain circumstances - perhaps when they don't have enough
packages going to a certain part of the country to fill a truck.  I
suppose they feel that if they were to go ahead and ship it by air
within the first two days or so, folks who might normally spring for
Overnight, 2nd, or 3rd Day Air, would instead pay for Ground and take
their chances that the package might show up early.
Mark C.
On Friday, October 11, 2002, 10:02:34 PM, you wrote:
jg> As I recall in the coffee race, the UPS pack got out of Richmond rather 
jg> promptly and it took four and a half days to get to Atlanta.  FedEx 
jg> took rather long to get on the road but once on the road, seemed to go  
jg> almost non-stop, making the trip in two and a half days.  Some of this 
jg> may be late data entry, but it should be fairly automatic.
jg> Jim Gundlach
jg> La Place, Alabama
jg> On Friday, October 11, 2002, at 08:29 PM, Mark A. Chalkley wrote:
<Snip>
jg>
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