I have completed comparison roasts of Ethiopian Ghimbi, one fast to second crack in 2.4 minutes, and one slow to second in 13 minutes. All previous Ghimbi roasts and this slow roast were uneven, with about 10 beans "lighter than average". The fast roast resulted in 9 beans that were expanded normally but had a peanut color, very much lighter than those present in the slow roasted beans. These were broken easily in my fingers and smelled very bad. Of course, they were discarded. The lights were not removed from the slow roast. Has anyone noticed this in their Ghimbi or other beans? Are these "light" beans with their bad flavor still present in the slow roasts, but darker color and so not noticed? Are these light beans ruined by the fast roast, or are they defects, not able to darken quickly and so stand out in contrast to the normal dark beans? The slow roast had little fragrance from the grounds, and almost no brew aroma, but tasted very good although the fruity flavors were missing. There was no obvious foul flavor from the light beans. There was no surface oil. The fast roast had more fragrance and the brew aroma was almost intoxicating, fruity, candy-like. There was a glossy oil coat on these beans. The flavor was much more complex, fruity, and much preferred over the slow roast. -- homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Ken, Ethiopian coffees will have a variety of colors in the finished roast. Indonesian coffees like Sumatra will appear similar. Leave the light beans in next time. Read more about this at Sweet Marias site in the cupping reviews Holly "Has anyone noticed this in their Ghimbi or other beans? Are these "light" beans with their bad flavor still present in the slow roasts, but darker color and so not noticed? Are these light beans ruined by the fast roast, or are they defects, not able to darken quickly and so stand out in contrast to the normal dark beans?" homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
<Snip> 2.4 Minutes! Geez, it's called 'roasting', not 'flash welding!' I can't imagine that working out. Roasting isn't just heating something to a certain temperature, it's cooking food. Some things you can't rush. Dan homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
--- Dan Bollinger wrote:(in a reply) <Snip> I have to agree with Dan. I recently was given a Fresh Roast and the same beans that come out rich, smooth and deeelicious after an 18 minute roast(doing 4 lb batches) in my brick oven system taste flat, acrid and dull, as well as giving a slight burning sensation in the throat when roasted in 3 minutes in the FR, even though the fast roast makes them look like candy. I played with the FR to stretch out the roast to 12 minutes and again got great shots. I've tried beautifull looking coffee from various roasteries that have the lovely shine and the harsh stomach reaction. I think they roast too fast, too hot, and never bother to try anything different. Too long a roast at below the right temp will certainly bake the goodness out of any bean, but too hot and fast is at least as bad ,to my taste. As has been mentioned, Ethiopian coffee, at least the whole dried, will always have yellow beans at the end. Tom swears you should not remove them, but I can't help it. Has anyone on the list ever put any aside to try them seperately? I keep meaning to but... Charlie ===== Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & Morehttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://faith.yahoo.comhomeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I tried this little experiment Charlie, and was running for the can for about 2 days. Can't remember the exact details but it cured me of experimenting in that fashion!! :) I do remember I tried it two ways: 1. Save all the yellow, very light brown, or any really far off bean after the roast. 2. Save every black, bug bitten moldy looking bean, separated pre-roast. It took a long time to save up enough #2 for a hearthware roast. Remembering back to that dreadful experiment- I think #1 wasn't too terrible, and it was #2 that made me so sick. Scott <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
It started as an experiment looking for the "brightness" that I seem to miss in some coffees. But when I had nearly the best cup of coffee in my life, the fast roasts continued. This 2.4 minutes is not that much faster than a Freshroast. In the quote from Illy & Viani that I posted recently, roasts can be done in 1.5 minutes and even 60 seconds, but with the possiblility of some incomplete reactions. They describe it as high yield or fast roasting and say that the "extraction yield at brewing is 20% higher". They also state that "High yield roasting has not yet been organoleptically optimized for [espresso due to] high residual CGA [chlorogenic acid]". Things happen so fast it is scary. There is not much time to record data during the roast. The dense blue/grey smoke at the end makes you think the beans are on fire. First crack begins at 1 to 1.2 minutes then rapidly accelerates without slowing into second crack. Second can only be detected when the divots start blowing out onto a tray. Cooling is done in the roaster, and usually reaches 35C in 2 to 3 minutes. I have no adverse effects from the coffee, nor does it taste too bright or acidy. It is not bitter or grassy. It is equal or better in flavor than my best slow roasts except for some missing chocolate. -- ---------- <Snip> <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I have been leaving the light beans in my slow roasts, but after smelling those foul "peanuts" from the fast roast, I am going to reconsider. I do not want anything that bad in my coffee. It is as simple as sorting out the lightest colors, then breaking some for evaluation. The Indonesians from SM's need no pre- or post- sorting, they roast evenly due to the quality preparation. -- ---------- <Snip> <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I've noted some similar observations. I can roast to charcoal in minutes with my modded PII, or roast forever. The faster roasts tend to be very aromatic and flavorful as drip or vac brew, but REALLY harsh and sour as espresso. My best espresso shots come from using my Popcorn Pumper, which due to mass, does a nice even ramp up to first, a nice delay, then a rockin' second crack, with end-of-roast being 8 to 10 minutes total time. My Turbo oven does a similar profile, but gives a much flatter tasting brew and little aroma to the beans in the jar. I think the Turbo oven doesn't have the horsepower to put enough energy into the beans at the end of the roast. The temp rise is too slow to kick off the necessary reactions, even though it can get to 450-500F air temps. Chris "Ken Mary" wrote: <Snip> The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now!http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today athttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://webmail.netscape.com/homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I've been getting some excellent roast results with my Popcorn Pumper as well. I've noticed that the cooler ambient temps this fall have lengthened the roasts by a few minutes. I've also been able to lengthen the roast by unplugging the butter dish heat source that I had plugged earlier. I've been in the 10 minute range for full city. The taste from a longer roast is much more appealing to my palate. On another note, I appreciate the Krups Gusto recommendations a few weeks ago. I picked one up on Amazon and am having a blast learning how to use it. I'm beginning to make some amazing Americano's. The only drawback I see is the small boiler chamber and the lack of a hot water source. Chris in KC |
--- Ken Mary wrote: <Snip> I figured that "high yield" was the reason for so much high temp roasting going on comercialy. What I've really found out through this list is how different each of our tase preferences can be. I may well be hypersensitive to CGA. It may well be the substance that makes my throat burn when it hasn't been roasted out. It is more noticable in espresso and in every *bucks shot I ever tried. <Snip> <Snip> We're both real coffee lovers and try everything to get the best from it, and come to oposite conclusions here. How 'bout that? ;o) Another thing-I've roasted and consumed tons of coffee and never once have I detected a taste that reminded me of "grass", yet I see that "grassy" term used so often I guess that plenty of folks do. I'm not alone in liking slower roasts, but how about never tasting lawn clippings? Charlie ===== Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & Morehttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://faith.yahoo.comhomeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
My first roasting experience was a Costa Rican from the sampler pack roasted to City. The next morning I brewed a cup in my french press and took a sip. I thought I had mistakenly brewed up some "lawn clippings" in place of the coffee. It was not a good experience. The "grassiness" did subside after a day or two of rest. I did conclude that the Costa Rican was not one of my favorites. I much prefer a less-bright, full bodied Indonesian. Chris in KC |