HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Water Quality (36 msgs / 622 lines)
1) From: Don Staricka
There is a good article in Fresh Cup this month about the importance of
water quality.  Any of us who fret about precise roast profiles and optimum
degassing strategies but ignore water quality are probably missing the boat
(so to speak). You can read the article online at
.
Don

2) From: Michael Rochman
Don, although we've only been home roasting a few short months, we've
experimented with same bean/roast/grind/brewing method/dilution using
different water, brewing in a Chemex, we've quickly found differences among
final product. We have good tap water in St. Louis. However, we have a
gizmo that produces reverse ionization (or some such nomenclature), and
that coffee is superior (and easily blind tellable) to the tap water. Thus,
we've experimented with bottled waters. There is a difference there, too.
Not enough in our opinions to go buy water, but a very slightly "cleaner"
taste....like a subtle additional clearness over the purified water we
make. Looking forward to reading the article below. Thanks for posting it.
Mike
<Snip>
optimum
<Snip>
boat
<Snip>

3) From: Dan Bollinger
We've talked about water quality many times.  A few grains of calcium
hardness and a little alkalinity is suppossed to be good for the boiler and
espresso flavor.  I use R/O water and it needs help to prevent leaching. In
the short-term, I've been adding a pinch of bicarb in every tank filling to
make the water slightly alkaline.  I've been looking for a calcium additive.
Someone mentioned Cirqua reformulation filter, but they've not responded
after leaving a request three times. So I went looking on the internet and
found this.  Calcium hydroxide CaOH.  It is suppossed to be safe for potable
water and dissolves quickly.  Think this will work?  Only $9 for a pound.http://www.esvco.com/prod1.htmDan
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

4) From: Jim Schulman
Hi Dan,
CaOH (quicklime) is used to increase hardness by 
the aquarium owners whose webpages were the source 
of a lot of my water info. My general impression 
was that fish are even more sensitive than coffee 
flavor, tending to go belly up for the least of 
reasons. So if it's OK with them; it'll be OK for 
coffee.
Jim
On 17 Nov 2002 at 10:08, Dan Bollinger wrote:
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

5) From: Dan Bollinger
Thanks, Jim, After reading on the subject further, I noticed that I mistyped
the chemcial.  CaO is the monoxide and is called quicklime or lime. Ca(OH)2
is calcium hydroxide or kalkwasser, and is the water additive mentioned in
the aquarium and water treatment webpages. Calcium Carbonate Ca(CO)3 is what
gives the hardness in our tap and well water.  Dan
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

6) From: Jim Schulman
CaO is right; guess I won't be writing the next 
water FAQ. 
An RO plus mineral additive cartridge is the state 
of the art for water treatments, since you can 
fine tune it to get exactly the water you want.
Jim
On 17 Nov 2002 at 17:01, Dan Bollinger wrote:
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

7) From: Dan Bollinger
Jim,  Where can I get a mineral additive cartridge?  I need to get this
issue of hardness handled before I plumb my Isomac.  Dan
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

8) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
Tap water is usually adjusted to be slightly alkaline, about pH of 8.5
to 9.5. My tap water is very soft but pH is about 9. I don't know the
effect of RO filtering to the pH since RO removes ions that may
reversibly bind and dissociate with protones or hydroxides. But
measuring pH is easy anyway.
There are a few water filter models that incorporates the final step
that releases calcium carbonate into the water. You might consider one
of those. Calcium carbonate comes in a very wide range of purity and
addition of it to drinking water by yourself is only recommended if
you know the purity grade for sure, and you know your dose is
appropriate. (generally discouraged)
One possible thing you can try (if you know what you are doing) is to
grind up appropriate calcium supplement, and dissolve it in bottled
carbonated water, let it sit overnight or maybe longer, and then
filter to remove insoluble fillers. This solution should be diluted
with your RO filtered water. Many naturally carbonated water contains
appreciable amount of calcium to begin with, but below the saturation
level. So you can use it as the solvent, and then dilute with
water. Excess carbonic acid will escape the water as gas when the
water is boiled. Of course, you'll get solid precipitation if you
dissolved too much calcium.  Also, pH rise will favor formation of
solid precipitation, so begin with a small amount of calcium to avoid
it.  Try entirely at your own risk.
After all, my brewing technique is adjusted for soft water over years
and I'm perfectly happy with soft water.
--
Ryuji Suzuki
"I can't believe I'm here.
People always say that I'm a long way from normal."
(Bob Dylan, Normal, Illinois, 13 February 1999)
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

9) From: Jim Schulman
The manufacturer of your RO unit may make one that 
fits into the unit. Culligen and Everpure make 
such cartridges.
Another strategy is to add a mixing valve 
downstream of the RO unit and remix a little tap 
water into the stream. If you know the hardness 
and alkalinity of the tap water, you can adjust 
the mix to produce a nonscaling hardness level 
that still tastes OK. 
If your tap water has bad tastes or odors, you'll 
need to make sure the remixed portion is carbon 
filtered. Simple chlorine doesn't need to be 
filtered since the heat of the machine will 
dissipate it; but the chloramine treatment some 
water boards use should be filtered, since boiling 
doesn't eliminate it.
Jim
On 17 Nov 2002 at 17:22, Dan Bollinger wrote:
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

10) From: Dan Bollinger
Thanks, Ryuji, I should have said, I'm not using tap water, but softened
well-water run through an R/O unit. Also, I'm using an espresso machine, so
I don't want to damage the unit with the wrong water, but would like the
best flavor. Dan
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

11) From: Dan Bollinger
Jim, remixing isn't going to work in my case. My well water has very high
iron, higher than is recommended for drinking.  I don't want to remix it
because of the flavor it gives. But, all things considered, this may be the
best solution. Dan

12) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
From: "Dan Bollinger" 
Subject: Re: +Water Quality
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:38:03 -0500
<Snip>
Activated charcoal filters usually remove much (about 90%) of
transition metals including iron and copper although they have little
effect on alkaline earth metals and alkali metals. Depending on the
level of iron in your well water, high performance solid activated
charcoal filter may be a good thing to try. (make sure the water is
otherwise safe) But if you can find CaCO3 releasing unit for your
filtering system it may be easiest and effective.
--
Ryuji Suzuki
"I can't believe I'm here.
People always say that I'm a long way from normal."
(Bob Dylan, Normal, Illinois, 13 February 1999)
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

13) From: David Lewis
At 10:08 AM -0500 11/17/02, Dan Bollinger wrote:
<Snip>
If Cirqua won't respond to you, email Dave Beeman, who's their CEO, 
at . Otherwise, you can get 
calcite/activated carbon combo filter cartridges (and inline filters) 
from Hydro-Flow. Email is , and phone is 
909-600-1808. Hope this helps.
Best,
	David
-- 
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or 
that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only 
unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American 
public."
     -- Theodore Roosevelt
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

14) From: javed.akhtar
Are we still talking about coffee here?
;)

15) From: Dan Bollinger
<Snip>
Nope.  Just the water supply for espresso machines. After all, coffee is
only 99% water.   ;)  Dan
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

16) From: Michael Parker
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Thanks for the insanely long water faq post.  I enjoyed the short =
answer-Crystal Geyser-as well as the long one- a mix of ro and charcoal =
filtered tap.  
I'll guess the next step is to work out a proportioning system, unless =
one of you knows about a good post-ro mineral adding filter bed designed =
for coffee! 
michaelp

17) From: Dan Bollinger
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Yes!   Use a caclite water treatment cartridge after your RO system. It =
will bring the water to near neutral pH as well as add a few grains of =
hardness.  Not so much that you'd call it boiler safe, but better than =
nothing. You can also make calcite treated water for a pour-over by =
leaving a half cup of calcite in the bottom of a water pitche. Just fill =
with RO, give a few shakes and the water is treated.  Dan
  Thanks for the insanely long water faq post.  I enjoyed the short =
answer-Crystal Geyser-as well as the long one- a mix of ro and charcoal =
filtered tap.  
  I'll guess the next step is to work out a proportioning system, unless =
one of you knows about a good post-ro mineral adding filter bed designed =
for coffee! 
  michaelp

18) From: Bernard Gerrard
What is The Word on water quality?  Tea brewing is quite sensitive to 
water quality.  Is coffee more forgiving?  Bernard C. Gerrard

19) From: Brett Mason
Coffee is very forgiving.
BUT,
Water is everything...  Check out Jim Gundlach's insanely long water FAQ's:http://homeroasters.org/waterfaqs.htmBrett
On 12/29/06, Bernard Gerrard  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

20) From: Brett Mason
Apologies, all, Jim Gundlach will be embarrassed, and Jim Schulman
forgiving, but it is Jim Schulman's insanely long water FAQ...http://homeroasters.org/waterfaqs.htmBrett
On 12/29/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

21) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
No. Bad water = bad coffee.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

22) From: Brett Mason
Mike, Mike, Mike.... I disagree.  (Only 3 days left for a good
disagreement this year)  He asked if coffee is forgiving. = Very
forgiving.
Skunkwater is a personal choice.
We support Sweet Maria's and their excellent coffees.  If you choose
to brew forgiving coffee in skunk water, well that is certainly your
choice.  You could open up your own coffee shop and improveon the
other coffee shops, by SM beans alone.  Water be damned.
Now, if you LIKE coffee....
Brett
On 12/29/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

23) From: Eddie Dove
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the maaaaaiiin event.  LLLLLLLLLLLet's get
ready to rumbllllllllllllllle!
O.K., you guys!  I want a good clean fight!  Keep it moving!  No rabbit
punches!  No low blows!  When I say, "break," I want you to, "push off " and
break, clean!  You got me?  O.K. let's have a good fight!  Get it on!
Ding! Ding!
On 12/29/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/

24) From: Brett Mason
Brett was knocked down by Eddie's second ding...
On 12/29/06, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

25) From: Leo Zick
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
how can coffee be forgiving if the only way to make it is in water?
thats like saying all grapes can make good wine, if you add enough chemicals
On 12/29/06, Brett Mason  wrote: 
Mike, Mike, Mike.... I disagree.  (Only 3 days left for a good
disagreement this year)  He asked if coffee is forgiving. = Very
forgiving.
Skunkwater is a personal choice.
We support Sweet Maria's and their excellent coffees.  If you choose 
to brew forgiving coffee in skunk water, well that is certainly your
choice.  You could open up your own coffee shop and improveon the
other coffee shops, by SM beans alone.  Water be damned.
Now, if you LIKE coffee.... 
Brett
On 12/29/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
enlightenment
<Snip>
before. 
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings 
<Snip>
--
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com--
My Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/

26) From: Brett Mason
Coffee comes out great despite all of our screwups... it is Very forgiving...
On 12/29/06, Leo Zick  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

27) From: Vicki Smith
I have this sense that the coffee is more forgiving than we are as our 
standards for what makes a truly great cup increases over time. I find 
that sharing my home roast helps balance that out, as person after 
person commits bean abuse (at least from my perspective) and then raves 
about how much better their coffee tastes using my roasts.
v
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

28) From: Justin Marquez
On 12/29/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
Great Ceaser's Ghost!  Academic Plagerism by proxy!
(heeheehee)
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

29) From: Justin Marquez
On 12/29/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
If anyone thinks the water quality doesn't matter, try brewing some
coffee in some W. TX towns with highly mineralized city water - i.e.
Lubbock or Odessa or Ft. Stockton.  I brewed some in Lubbock once at
the KOA RV park without realizing the water was so bad and there were
actual little flakes of precipitate swirling in the carafe.  The brew
was HORRID, even with homeroasted.
Tea does the same thing in Ft Stockton.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

30) From: Michael Dhabolt
Brett,
You caught that pretty fast.  I already had a correction written......and
then noticed that you had done it yourself;~)
Mike (just plain)

31) From: raymanowen
Coffee isn't forgiving. Do what you want. The coffee won't give a damn.
If you can't taste the difference just ladle water out of Clear Creek
upstream of Coors and the old CSM Research Institute tailings pond.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

32) From: jim gundlach
Brett,
     I do a lot of things but the water page is Jim Schulman's work.   
We both home roast and are sociologists but the last I heard he was  
still working on his PhD, I finished mine back in 76.
      Pecan Jim
P.S.  For those who were following my blowing the whistle on my  
department chair, Thomas Petee, for giving high grades for almost no  
work, I just found out that he was suspended by the university last  
Friday.  They called him in to his office, told him he had half an  
hour to get his personal belongings out, served him with a notice  
that he was banned from campus, and had the locksmiths there to  
change the lock on his office door after the half hour was over.   
Also, the audit of his grade changes has been forwarded to the  
faculty dismissal committee.
On Dec 29, 2006, at 8:26 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

33) From: Brett Mason
Congratulations Jim - good work, although couldn't have been fun....
Brett
On 12/29/06, jim gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

34) From: miKe mcKoffee
That's congratulations Dr. Nut not Jim:-)
miKe 
<Snip>

35) From: Michael Dhabolt
Jim,
Kudos, a batch.  Seems as though committment to ethics does come out on top,
sometimes.  And I'll echo " although couldn't have been fun....".
Mike (just plain)

36) From: an iconoclast
On 12/29/06, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
I have to agree.  There are some places I just can't drink out of the
tap.  And coffee tastes bad with the same water.  Whenever we have
this discussion, I just shake my head and wonder how we got so lucky.
We have Zigzag water - ice cold, well water from 380 feet down that
popped up artesian-wise to 80 feet after drilling through solid rock.
It is actually pure heaven. Huge difference between drinking coffee
made with our water and water from in town made with my homeroasted
beans and a KMB.
You'll have to taste it one of these days!
Take care,
Ann


HomeRoast Digest