HomeRoast Digest


Topic: resting the roast (29 msgs / 1005 lines)
1) From: JIm Saborio
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Well, all you folks seem to like to blather nonsensically about your methodologies… I’m a greenhorn and would like to know what the consensus is about resting the beans after roasting.  One site claims that the beans should be hermetically sealed in a titanium vault, only allowed to “exhale” when pressures build up to the point of near explosion.  Imagine, if you will, coming home to find all of the windows of your house blown out and shrapnel beans stuck four inches into the side of your neighbor’s house.  Another site extols the benefits of open-air resting claiming you should carry the beans in a shirt pocket, making sure to let them out intermittently to meet friends and family.

 

I just brewed and drank some Sulawesi Toraja that was a good five days old, and it was much better than it was on any previous “sessions”.  After roasting, I usually put my coffee in little mason jars, opening them now and again to sniff at them.  I’ve found that darker roasted coffees take longer to set.  What method is everyone else using?  It would be nice if my method were wrong and everyone one else was using the same superior method which would drastically change my life etc…  Heck, who am I kidding, I don’t even like coffee, I’m just in it for the science, man.  How do you “pros” do it anyhow?

 

  

-JIm

m o r g a n t o w n ,  w e s t  v i r g i n i a

 

visit the window...

 


2) From: Kirt Thomas
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 -->Re: + resting the roast
I usually rest my
roast about 12 hours.  Or at least I try to wait that long
:)  I never let it 'rest' longer than 4 days, while the term
stale has a very perjorative meaning, I think that most coffee will
have lost it's character after 4 days or so (I'm thinking at the same
time that while we have some rules of thumb, there is nothing carved
in stone :)
-- 
-----------++++++++++---------+++++++++--

3) From: Prabhakar Ragde
<Snip>
Consensus? Bwah-ha-ha! I'm with you -- put 'em in a mason jar and just
use them. I put them in as soon as they're cool, but I don't use a
super-duper airlock lid, just a regular canning or plastic-substitute
lid. They go in a dark and cool cupboard and I use them starting 12
hours later.
The nice thing about this hobby is that there are so many obsessions,
we can choose our own subset, and then feel superior to the people who
are worrying about details we have chosen to ignore.
By the way, Jim, your mailer seems to be vomiting HTML, and
particularly gruesome HTML at that. Here's a sample of what is
probably being hidden from you:
@font-face
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--PR
(Chest cold and nasty cough, so I'm working through frozen Peet's
beans in steamed milk, holding off the next EMB roast until I can
actually taste it.)

4) From: Eric Bear Albrecht
 
At 8:32 AM -0600 3/28/00, Kirt Thomas wrote [html deleted].  Please don't.
-- 
         Eric Bear Albrecht     ebear     W5VZB      Box 6040
                                Presto Computers
            Macintosh repairs - used Macs - training & troubleshooting
         505-758-0579           fax 505-758-5079          Taos, NM 87571
                           http://www.taosnet.com/ebear          "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a
           chance to get its pants on."          -- Winston Churchill

5) From: Richard
To repeat: consensus, chiseled in stone?
I find it (optimal rest time) even varies between roasts and brew
methods. At one extreme, I find single origin coffees, lightly roasted
and prepared by vac pot or filter seem best after about 12 hours. At the
other end, espresso blends, especially those containing monsooned
malabar and robusta, benefit from 2 or three days of resting. Also, as
discussed in a previous thread, I find that sealing the roasted beans
tightly (I use mason jars) and letting them pressurize, yields a more
acidic coffee. I now let the rest period transpire with the lids loosely
placed on the jars.
These are just my opinions and others surely will disagree.
And as for vomiting html, it could be worse, .... postscript (including
font libraries)
or TeX
Robusta Rich
Prabhakar Ragde wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Richard Schwaninger
"Consider what you want to do in relation to what you are capable
of doing. Mounainteering is above all a matter of integrity".
Gaston Rebuffat

6) From: Prabhakar Ragde
<Snip>
Sure, but no one's mailer is configured to send out postscript or
TeX. (And if you know of an exception, I think the human-rights
people at the International Court of Justice in the Hague might be
interested.) It used to be, and still is to a large extent, that
"newbies" had to be counselled to learn e-mail etiquette, read the
FAQs before posting, and so on. Now they also have to be counselled to
ensure that their mail software is friendly to other's mail readers. --PR

7) From: Kirt Thomas
 
Double rats - I just bump-graded to the new Eudora, 4.2 alerted me 
when I was sending any formated garbage, I had to go back and change 
the setting just now to send only plaintext in 4.3.
<Snip>
-- 
-----------++++++++++---------+++++++++---------++++++++++
Kirt Thomas  *  HW Gourmet  *  Vac-Pot  *  Rancilio Audrey
   Roasting in the comfort of the Garage for over a Year.

8) From: Anthony Ottman
Hi, all!
There seem to be some points on which we tend to agree, and others where we
agree to disagree.
Points of Agreement:
- 12 hours is about the minimum resting period for best flavor, more for
certain beans, especially those that have been monsooned or aged.  While
some make an acceptable cup right away, all are better after resting.
- Oxygen is the enemy.  After the resting period, keep them beans sealed and
only open the container when actually making coffee.
- Light is another enemy.  Keep them in the dark.  (It's a minor point, but
I think we generally agree on that one too.)
Points of Disagreement:
- Degassing: some say to seal the beans immediately after roasting, others
prefer to wait a few hours.  I am in the former group.
- Staleness: some of us automatically throw out any beans over 36 hours old,
while others will drink from a roast that was done a week or more before.  I
try not to have more than about three days' worth of coffee around at any
given time.
- Storage: some have tried freezing roasted coffee, others have experimented
with vacuum sealing.  To the best of my recollection, results on both have
been mixed.
These are the major points that come to mind, others with better memories or
the inclination to search the archives will probably come up with other
points.
Happy roasting!
- Anthony

9) From: Michael Snow
 
<Snip>
I did an experiment the other day to try and see for myself 
objectively if there's any difference. I roasted a batch of Sulawesi 
and cooled it. I put half of it into a plastic one-way valve bag and 
squeezed out most of the air. I put the other half in a mason jar and 
left the lid a little loose. After four hours, I tightened the lid. 
The next morning, I brewed a cup from each storage medium. There was 
a big difference. The stuff from the one-way valve bag was full, 
sweet, flavorful. The stuff from the mason jar had less body and had 
a harsh edge to it. I had been struggling with using mason jars 
before, having unpredictable results. Now I'm a total covert to 
one-way valve bags. Since I've been using them, I get excellent 
results every time. Cool the coffee, dump it in the bag, squeeze out 
the air, and let it sit overnight.
In any case, flavors do seem to change over the course of a few days, 
regardless of the storage method. Some coffees change more than 
others, it seems. I haven't really kept good track of which coffees 
change a lot and which don't.
Michael Snow
vac pot - drink black - HW Gourmet - DeLonghi Air Stream convection oven
coffee
Michael and Anna Snow
Snow Creative Services
snows

10) From: Ken Mary
Re: + resting the roast
Jim, please set your mailer to plain text, your message text is only 3 pixels high.
As for resting coffee, I roast only enough to consume within 2 or 3 days and store it in an ordinary screw top jar. But I make the first brew usually within an hour of roasting. Quite often this is the best cup of the batch, but sometimes my 2 or 3 day old has a "smoother" taste profile.
This is discussed ad-infinitum here and in alt.coffee, but I suppose few of us have taken the time to prove it to ourselves. Since I am well aware of the scientific method (being both a chemical engineer and geek) I will try a limited and very subjective taste test of the same coffee in various storage devices and sitting open on the counter top. Results may take a month or two, or infinity if I forget.
-- 
Ken Mary - Mars Pennsylvania - modified Melitta Aromaroast - modified whirlyblade - French Press
"Nothing works like it is supposed to."
----------
From: JIm Saborio <etranger>
To: "Sweet Maria's Home Roasing List" <homeroast>
Subject: + resting the roast
Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 9:12 AM
Well, all you folks seem to like to blather nonsensically about your methodologies… I’m a greenhorn and would like to know what the consensus is about resting the beans after roasting.  One site claims that the beans should be hermetically sealed in a titanium vault, only allowed to “exhale” when pressures build up to the point of near explosion.  Imagine, if you will, coming home to find all of the windows of your house blown out and shrapnel beans stuck four inches into the side of your neighbor’s house. Another site extols the benefits of open-air resting claiming you should carry the beans in a shirt pocket, making sure to let them out intermittently to meet friends and family. 
 
I just brewed and drank some Sulawesi Toraja that was a good five days old, and it was much better than it was on any previous “sessions”.  After roasting, I usually put my coffee in little mason jars, opening them now and again to sniff at them.  I’ve found that darker roasted coffees take longer to set. What method is everyone else using? It would be nice if my method were wrong and everyone one else was using the same superior method which would drastically change my life etc…  Heck, who am I kidding, I don’t even like coffee, I’m just in it for the science, man. How do you “pros” do it anyhow? 
 
  
-JIm 
m o r g a n t o w n ,  w e s t  v i r g i n i a 
 
visit the window... <http://jim.tripod.com/> 
 

11) From: Robert Cantor
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There's no consensus because different methods and 
rates of roasting produce different results and people's desired outcomes 
vary.  Some roast methods produce beans that don't peak in flavor until 
after 36 hours but stay good a long time (depending on who's tasting).  
Some methods produce coffee that tastes good right after cooling but 
is rancid after 48 hours.
 
I generally leave the coffee in a jar with the lid 
resting on top so the oxegen and moisture can be driven out by the heavier 
Co2.  the next day I tighten the lid.  With my modified popper I wait 
36 hours.  With the HWP and Alp I don't seem to have to wait as long but I 
haven't tested it.
 
 
Bob C.
rcantor

12) From: Tim Culver
Great responses all.  I only add that I find light-roasted coffee
likes more rest than dark-roast.  I think someone else said the
opposite. 
-- 
Tim Culver
Chapel Hill, NC ... popper ... trespade ... press pot

13) From: Michael Allen Smith
<Snip>
My general statement would be that Indonesian coffees require an extra day
of resting.  Of course there are exceptions to every rule.
mas

14) From: Cheryl Alexander
Excuse me if this has been answered before, but is the resting period for roasted beans affected if one grinds them up, shall we say, prematurely? In other words, must the beans remain whole in order to properly rest?
 
 cheryl
 
so many pens...so little time... 
 http://www.gcwr.org/

15) From: Brett Mason
There's a "sideways" answer to that, but is meant in all
seriousness...  Grinding exposes much more bean to air, and air
degenerates coffee.  So if you are grinding, you should brew within
10-15 minutes to get the best flavor...
Therefore, if you are grinding to accelerate the rest, you may be
doing more harm than good.
And the final rule, on list, is ...  it is YOUR tastes and experience
that matters.  Maybe a test or two, and report the results you find?
Best regards,
Brett
  Who wouldn't grind early, but if he had to do so, would use a Zass....
On 2/1/06, Cheryl Alexander  wrote:
<Snip>
 roasted beans affected if one grinds them up, shall we say, prematurely? I=
n other words, must the beans remain whole in order to properly rest?
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

16) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
Since grinding breaks up the beans, the degassing that normally
happens when resting probably does happen more quickly.  But grinding
also means the beans will stale more quickly - more surface exposed to
the air.  If you're using the beans for espresso, I definitely
wouldn't grind them, then let them rest.  Ground beans should be used
immediately.
If I'm drip brewing a freshly-roasted batch of beans, I sometimes
grind and let them "rest" for 2-3 minutes before brewing.  It helps to
take off the tangy edge of freshly-roasted but not rested coffee.
--
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO & i'Roast2

17) From: Brett Mason
Do all B's think alike?
On 2/1/06, Brent - SC/TO Roasting  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

18) From: Cheryl Alexander
Yeh, thing is I'm doing these for a friend, who doesn't have a grinder available. He has one, but it's packed away, and the espresso machine already has beans in the hopper, blah blah blah. Bottom line is I don't have a choice this time; I have to grind them ahead and mail them. They're going into a SM one-way valve bag, but still....
 Guess this will just have to do.
 However, you answered my question. It is probably not necessary to "age" the beans before grinding in this case.
 
 cheryl
 
so many pens...so little time... 
 http://www.gcwr.org/----- Original Message ----
From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting 
To: homeroast
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 10:24:20
Subject: Re: +Resting the roast
<Snip>
immediately.>>>>>>>>
--
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO & i'Roast2

19) From: J.W.Bullfrog
I found that when I slowed my roast (3 minutes to 300, at least 6 to 
1st) I didn't need the rest anymore. I use to get to 300 as fast as 
possible until I looked at the dederich profile and info someone shared.
Cheryl Alexander wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers 
exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will 
instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more 
bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

20) From: mIke mcKoffee
I understand your desire to share your home roast with a friend, yet there
is always a choice. Your choice is doing as you suggest and letting them
sample pre-ground stale home roasted coffee, sending whole bean and letting
them come up with grinding solution, or not sending any at all if they are
unable or unwilling to unpack the grinder or take the existing beans out of
existing grinder. Personally I made the decision years ago that if someone
didn't have a grinder I gave them no beans, period. In part based on my
belief if they weren't already grinding for each brewing, which would
indicate they already were attempting to get a better brew, but still buying
pre-ground be it canned or other then they most likely wouldn't appreciate
fresh home roasted coffee anyway. (except for those family members I sent
beans and a grinder) 
miKe
<Snip>

21) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
Cheryl,
It's frustrating trying to convert the unconverted.  :)
Maybe send along a note with the ground coffee like "You wouldn't
believe how good this coffee is when freshly ground."  Maybe offer to
help them pick out a new grinder if they can't come up with the old
one.  Gentle persuasion can work wonders.
And you are still giving them better coffee than they'll get elsewhere.
--
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO & i'Roast2
On 2/1/06, Cheryl Alexander  wrote:
<Snip>
ailable. He has one, but it's packed away, and the espresso machine already=
 has beans in the hopper, blah blah blah. Bottom line is I don't have a cho=
ice this time; I have to grind them ahead and mail them. They're going into=
 a SM one-way valve bag, but still....
<Snip>
 the beans before grinding in this case.
<Snip>

22) From: Rich Adams

23) From: Michael Dhabolt
I had some friends that got the bug after drinking coffee at my place
several times.  They also balked at getting a grinder - they drank Mr.
Cofffee drip so a whirly blade would be all they needed.  Anyway they
were expecting a bunch of company for the holidays and asked me to
roast a couple of pounds while proferring a $20 bill.  I said "sure",
went to a big box store, bought them a $10 whirly blade, roasted a
couple of pounds for them, and when I gave them the package told them
that if they needed more coffee it would only be the cost of the beans
(long time good friends).  Over the past year they have progressed to
a Rocky and a couple of Vac pots.  Now, I have to get them to roast
their own.
Mike

24) From: Cheryl Alexander
That is exactly what I did, and actually, this friend should know better! He has whole beans in the hopper of his $1100 espresso machine, but says it is not good for "small jobs." Sigh. The other grinder is "packed and inaccessible."
 
 You are right, however: what I send him will be better than anything else he has.
 I will convert him slowly.
 
 Not everyone is as picky as we are. Can't scold my friends; it's a turn-off.
 
 cheryl
 
so many pens...so little time... 
 http://www.gcwr.org/----- Original Message ----
From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting 
To: homeroast
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 13:50:39
Subject: Re: +Resting the roast
Cheryl,
It's frustrating trying to convert the unconverted.  :)
Maybe send along a note with the ground coffee like "You wouldn't
believe how good this coffee is when freshly ground."  Maybe offer to
help them pick out a new grinder if they can't come up with the old
one.  Gentle persuasion can work wonders.
And you are still giving them better coffee than they'll get elsewhere.
--
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO & i'Roast2

25) From: Sandy Andina
You could send him some whole beans and a suggestion to scoop as many  
of his old ones out of the (I presume) superauto's grinder as he can  
and use up the rest to make room for yours!
On Feb 1, 2006, at 1:50 PM, Brent - SC/TO Roasting wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

26) From: Cheryl Alexander
Well....it's kind of a sore subject. :) I suggested loudly he invest in a grinder. His response was "I HAVE A BEAN GRINDER! IT'S IN MY (*%^#$**#  GARAGE. WITH THE OTHER 43 BOXES THAT USED TO BE INSIDE OF MY KITCHEN CABINETS."
 (Remodeling project last year....)
 
 cheryl, snickering
 
so many pens...so little time... 
 http://www.gcwr.org/----- Original Message ----
From: Sandy Andina 
To: homeroast
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 15:06:35
Subject: Re: +Resting the roast
You could send him some whole beans and a suggestion to scoop as many  
of his old ones out of the (I presume) superauto's grinder as he can  
and use up the rest to make room for yours!
On Feb 1, 2006, at 1:50 PM, Brent - SC/TO Roasting wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com

27) From:
"I don't have a choice this time" You do too, send only Sweet Maria's URL.
Maybe even a gift certificate
Matt7:6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw YOUR pearls before
swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around an=
d
rip YOU open."
Cheryl, make of that citation what you will, or not-
It just occurred to me that you are very excited about the incredible
experience that is fresh roasted coffee, right? I don't mean to disparage
your friend, but you present him with a dilemma.
Does he really enjoy and appreciate coffee for its own sake, or is he one o=
f
the Yups in the line at *$ or the like? While definitely not a disqualifier=
,
this could be a hint that he appreciates coffee that has been made to taste
like Something Else. Wolfgang Puck has something else in cans...
On the other hand, the mere suggestion that an experience Fabulously Beyond
the disappointment of Big Coffee may be had for the fun of roasting should
be an indicator. A picture of his grinder plugged in, would be Step #1 in
determining how your coffee will be received.
Egad- I bet he'd appreciate a *$ gift certificate even more than your roast
if he doesn't have time to break out his grinder. My grinder would be
impossible to hide.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
7-11 sold a huge insulated coffee mug/ mop bucket that would almost empty a
whole pot
Now to head out back and try out my new Wagner heat gun. It has a 2-yr
warranty, unlike the Glorious orange heat thingie that went up in smoke and
blue fire as the Uganda Bugisu was nearing second crack. Its sixth time
roasting I think.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
--
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Wichita WurliTzer

28) From: Robert Joslin
My experience has been:
1.  Almost all beans have interesting and generally good taste and aromas
when brewed fresh from the roaster.
2.  There are a very few beans that I don't like when brewed fresh from the
roaster.
3.  Almost all beans that I have roasted change (read improve) in taste and
sometimes aroma over several days post roasting.  My roasted supply usually
doesn't last more than a week so I can't speak about resting periods longer
than a week.
4.  I enjoy experiencing the changing character of the brew.
                                       Josh

29) From: raymanowen
"Almost all beans have interesting and generally good taste and aromas when
brewed fresh from the roaster."
Coffee sold by Sweet Maria's has all been sampled that same way, I think.
The lots that pass muster and are "must haves" in Tom's opinion, are the
only ones on their offering list.
Your other observations are "right on," too. You might note the changes that
take place in your Fresh From the Roaster brews as the coffee ages and even
gets cold in the cup. I think you'll find several stellar beans in this
respect, too.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
On 9/6/07, Robert Joslin  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976


HomeRoast Digest