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Topic: Espresso time (7 msgs / 228 lines)
1) From: Fritz Curtis
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I have a pasquini Livia 90 auto
On the list I have read that it is supposed to take 20 sec or so to pull a 
shot of espresso. In my auto machine it takes 12
I grind it fine with pasquini burr grinder, tamp it in the 20 to 30 lbs
recommended range. The pucks fall out in one piece when i am done.
 It seems to taste good to me. But is something amiss? could it be better?
That is my question to the experts on the list

2) From: James Gundlach
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In 12 seconds you are not getting full rich flavor.  Try a finer grind =
with the 30 pound tamp to see if you can get time required up to about =
20 to 23 seconds.
Jim Gundlach
roasting over pecan wood fires
in La Place, Alabama
On Sunday, November 3, 2002, at 09:58 AM, Fritz Curtis wrote:
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lbs
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In 12 seconds you are not getting full rich flavor.  Try a finer grind
with the 30 pound tamp to see if you can get time required up to about
20 to 23 seconds.
Jim Gundlach
roasting over pecan wood fires
in La Place, Alabama  
On Sunday, November 3, 2002, at 09:58 AM, Fritz Curtis wrote:
ArialI have a pasquini
Livia 90 auto
 
ArialOn the list I have read that
it is supposed to take 20 sec or so to pull a
Arialshot of espresso. In my auto
machine it takes 12
 
ArialI grind it fine with pasquini
burr grinder, tamp it in the 20 to 30 lbs
Arialrecommended range. The pucks
fall out in one piece when i am done.
Arial It seems to taste good to
me. But is something amiss? could it be better?
ArialThat is my question to the
experts on the list
=
--Apple-Mail-2-54473693--
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3) From: Jim Garlits
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
12 seconds for a shot?  Are you pulling exactly one ounce?  On most =
machines, you should shoot for 18 to 24 seconds for an ounce (two ounces =
on a double shot filter).  I would experiment in the following sequence. =
 
1.  Is there enough coffee in the portafilter basket?  Try just a bit =
more.  
2.  Am I tamping with enough pressure?  Try just a bit more weight.
3.  Is my grind too coarse?  Adjust the collar in tiny increments and =
see if that improves things.
Try those things first.  Again, with most expertly blended beans =
producing the "correct" amount of crema, it should take six seconds for =
a teaspoon of table sugar to penetrate through the crema.  Thats one way =
to tell if you're pulling a correct shot.  Without much previous =
exposure to espresso (I don't know what your situation is) I would go to =
a reputable cafe where you KNOW they pull great shots and acclimate your =
buds to their brew.  Then try to replicate that at home.  Otherwise you =
might be acclimating your tongue to something undesirable.  Don't want =
that to happen.  Try to get your home quality up to what good cafes =
serve.  I spent a year and a half in a cafe (my wife and I) and we knew =
we were pulling great shots consistantly, and I usually quaffed three or =
four shots first thing in the morning before we opened just to make sure =
everything was top notch and in working order.  So when I pull a shot =
here at home on Ms. Silvia, I have a good measuring stick.  
Jim Garlits

4) From: Irene and Lubos Palounek
"...with most expertly blended beans producing the "correct" amount of
crema, it should take six seconds for a teaspoon of table sugar to penetrate
through the crema.  That's one way to tell if you're pulling a correct
shot."
Jim, what is the origin of that criteria?  Even for a heaping teaspoon of
table sugar, it take much longer than six seconds for our home brewed
espresso. Why do you think that is an "incorrect" amount of crema?
"...I would go to a reputable cafe where you KNOW they pull great shots and
acclimate your buds to their brew."
Where do you live, Jim?  In most cities in the USA, it is perhaps
impossible, or at least very difficult, to find a cafe where they pull great
shots.
Is there somewhere a list of places in the USA where their pull great shots?
Regards, Lubos
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5) From: Jim Garlits
One regular teaspoon of sugar should take six seconds to penetrate the crema
on a perfect shot.  Thats an Italian standard I'd heard of from several
sources and thats what we pursued when roasting our own blends.  Thats just
a regular teaspoon, not heaping.  You can blend for more or less crema,
using dry processed or robusta beans for more.  If your home roasts produce
more crema, I'd hope that you're shooting for that.  Its not necessarily a
bad thing, just above the standard that I personally shot for (pun
intended.)
I live in north central Indiana.  The closest shops to me are in Wabash,
Kokomo and Logansport. I won't disparage any of them, I'll just simply say
that their products didn't suit me.  They don't however roast their own
coffee.  I can go to Old Crown Roasters in Fort Wayne, where Mike Woodruff
has a great little setup on N. Anthony Blvd and get fantastic product.
There are also a couple of shops in Indianapolis, but thats a longer drive.
We don't have cafes on every street corner around here, but hopefully
someday... (!)
It takes time and a lot of TLC to foster a coffee culture in places where
one simply doesn't exist.  I haven't given up completely, just ran into some
critical problems "this time around."  When I come back swinging, I'm
focusing completely on roasting and catering to home roasting.  I think
thats about as grassroots as I can get and I'll build from there.
Jim Garlits

6) From: Irene and Lubos Palounek
"If your home roasts produce more crema, I'd hope that you're shooting for
that."
Yes, I am. Not all my shots are like that -- but I think that I like the
taste and mouth feel and aroma of shots with more and richer crema better.
Thanks -- and enjoy your coffee -- Lubos
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7) From: Prabhakar Ragde
Jim Garlits wrote:
<Snip>
Except that Italians don't use the teaspoon measure. It's probably 5
ml of sugar, and maybe not even that, as they tend to have these
little tiny spoons. You shouldn't put sugar in espresso
anyway. Personally, my only criterion for a shot is how it tastes. It
can look like donkey piss. I'm not going to look at it for more than
three seconds, but I'm going to be tasting it for a while afterwards.
--PR, whose HWP appears to be aging -- it has to be set to 6 now,
  whereas 5.5 worked well before -- when is the new model coming?
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